If English clubs withdrew from Europe, what should they do?

First topic message reminder :

Talk is of an expanded Jeff. But I see no reason for that as it would free up the time for a properly structured season and return to a league in which the seasonal winner can be proclaimed champions. Attendances would not be seriously affected anyway.

A full International programme could be accommodated without encumbrance to stately progress of the League.

A big-money top four playoffs series with a final at HQ or wherever could be held as an end of season party. Or a game against SXV winners.

And should the English be invited back into Europe and English clubs were to accept, they wouldn't have to suddenly slash their league back to twelve clubs to return to the present status quo.

neilthom7 wrote:Noon and Tait lol in what way did they make it with England neither one has set the world on fire and Flood only became an England regular when he got in the Heineken Cup pal. So your argument was somewhat ruined by this. Also who is surviving? Romania, Georgia yeah your right because their club and international teams are something to be feared.
Who's becoming dependent on a handout? What proof have you got of this or is that another sweeping statement with no proof?
Would you say Ulster, Munster or Leinster don't deserve to be there?
Finally pal an opinion cannot be right or wrong that is why it is an opinion not a fact.
This is a debate an everyone is entitled to their opinion.

The Georgians and Russians have 8 and 10 professional sides, respectively. How good are they? Absolutely no idea. They're not even invited into the CC. They're probably rubbish but they're certainly shunned at the moment so we don't know.

Surely under every suggested qualification route for the PRO12 teams the 3 Irish sides would qualify. Wouldn't they? So I don't understand any argument in 'do they not deserve to be there'. That is exactly the point. THEY do. And then the dependent on handouts, well apparently Scotland and Italy will collapse without the HEC auto qualify so I suppose that's the argument with handouts.

Thunour I was responding directly to a guy who was making vague statements and things. I was not saying this as a general view I was responding directly to this bloke. Also as for Scotland and Italy you could be right not sure on this I don't have the SRU accounts etc clearly you do. Finally there are ways around that if they are so dependent Scotland could breakaway from the pro 12 form their own league get qualifying positions from that?
What I am saying here mate is that the thing written before was a specific reply and secondly here's something we all ask for teams to get better and how good it would be if new teams got better internationally for the sport but apparently when it comes to helping teams get better no one actually wants to do it.
Finally as I have said before I am sure English fans like everyone else just want it sorted the people who I have a problem with are rich private English club owners. These people do not care about the sport, they do not care about the fans, the probably don't even care about the club they only care about the money and the genuine rugby fans such as you and me will pay for that so I don't think we should be encouraging these people to make us football basically.

neilthom7 wrote:Thunour I was responding directly to a guy who was making vague statements and things. I was not saying this as a general view I was responding directly to this bloke. Also as for Scotland and Italy you could be right not sure on this I don't have the SRU accounts etc clearly you do. Finally there are ways around that if they are so dependent Scotland could breakaway from the pro 12 form their own league get qualifying positions from that?
What I am saying here mate is that the thing written before was a specific reply and secondly here's something we all ask for teams to get better and how good it would be if new teams got better internationally for the sport but apparently when it comes to helping teams get better no one actually wants to do it.
Finally as I have said before I am sure English fans like everyone else just want it sorted the people who I have a problem with are rich private English club owners. These people do not care about the sport, they do not care about the fans, the probably don't even care about the club they only care about the money and the genuine rugby fans such as you and me will pay for that so I don't think we should be encouraging these people to make us football basically.

Not a single one of the rich private owners of the English clubs make a profit off their ownership. Why on earth do they bother? They fancy a play thing? Maybe owning a sporting team is fashionable at the moment? If you think they don't care about rugby you're kidding yourself. They may not care about Scottish rugby, etc, I don't know. They may have a view what is best for rugby that is different from others.

EDIT: If they only care about money they could save themselves a hell of a lot if they just didn't buy the club in first place. It's frightening (and in some way disgusting) how much money Wray and Kennady have put into their clubs over the years.

But then does anyone care about 'rugby' or do they just care about 'their' rugby? What exactly have the unions 'done' for rugby? Some individual ones may be doing a good job. Others have been responsible for massive waste and outdated actions. Maybe you're lucky because from the outside it seems the IRFU are doing a good job (I know some have issues but that will always happen).

Hammerofthunor spot on.

Neilthom if you had met Nigel Wray you would know he really cares about sport and in particular Saracens. He has a large collection of sporting memorabilia. He's a proper sports fan - he just has the money to buy what he wants.

ok so if its not about money what is it about? Its not about the BT sponsorship deal? Are you sure guys are you sure? Also if no one turns a profit then how do the clubs go on? And people have suggested that some teams in Scotland etc are to reliant on Heineken Cup money if no English club turns a profit then they must be relying on it just to keep them afloat? Seriously if not 1 English club turns a profit then what is going wrong, where is all the money going?

Pretty sure when the Tigers club memebers were given the shares in the company the first thing they did was check how much they were worth on the stock market and shift their investment to corner the frozen organge juice market.
Or perhaps not.

That Welsh bloke who owns London Oxford though, hes just a pirate after booty.