The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

+14
nganboy
bsando
AsLongAsBut100ofUs
majesticimperialman
dummy_half
InjuredYetAgain
funnyExiledScot
George Carlin
TJ1
BoyneRFC
RDW
RuggerRadge2611
OzT
R!skysports
18 posters

Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by R!skysports Tue 18 Dec 2012, 1:57 am

2012 has been a mixed bag with more twists and turns than a game of super steroid snakes and ladders. New Years day, most Scottish rugby supporters woke up with a hangover, and a twinkle in their eye. Did we finally have a chance to move from dark horses to contenders? Could we finally move away from the wooden spoon deed holder to dizzy heights of top half of the table? We have players, we say, they just need to click. 2012 is our year, was the call on the boards, in the pubs and in our sweaty bed rooms – yes to be proud to be a Scottish rugby supporter, to be able to hold our head up high and talk to other fans as equals, without having to have a cheat sheet of reasons, excuses and tales of woe.

But roll on the first game: England vs Scotland - and before a ball had been kicked, a knock on by a front rower in the wing position had been made or even a brain fart by NDL had escaped, we know it was over. The team sheet came out and we all deflated and resigned ourselves to failure. What followed was one of the worst ever 6 nations experiences I had – games we should of, could of won but didn’t. Games that we had no ability or passion and a wooden spoon richly deserved.

Roll on the summer tour and a shock. We beat the Ozzies – yes a hurricane was present, but a win is a win and it was one of the big boys. Could we follow it up with more wins in the Islands in 1 millions degrees heat and hard hitting, fast running opposition. Yes we could. A corner just came into sight. Momentum, was the battle cry, got to win to win to win. Only winners are winners and we knocked over one of the big 3. Finally Scotland could open the curtains and look out – maybe time to head to the pub to talk rugby – yes it was an exciting time.

A few months later reality hits – in matches that mean something – a chance to get into the top 8 for the world cup draw. 2 wins out of three needed and we would be there. New Zealand up first – no chance to win so lets go play. 3 tries scored – first team to do that for over a year – maybe our momentum is working – maybe we can take on South Africa and get the two wins – positive, happiness, we lost against New Zealand, but we are proud.

Boom – it is all gone, 3rd tier rugby for Scotland. A poor game, pressure took hold and we can not take our chances. A failure for Scottish rugby, only one game left to save face and maybe let us drink our pint without shame.

KaBoom Tonga – disgrace, embarrassment, do they care, do they want to play for Scotland, excuses, blame, felt they deserved more – time to leave the pub and head back to our bed room. Time to give up supporting, time to not care anymore.
2013… a time to wake up and start afresh – this year, no expecations, no lofty goals, a new coach, and new chance, knock up down to build us up. But can we do it, wh do we really need to do to bring the passion back, to make us proud. But what does our team need to do to win back our heart?

As a Scotland supporter I want:

Passion.
I want our players to bleed blue.
To play to win, not to not lose
To play for each other
To look like they care
Players to be picked on form
To play to win, not to not lose
To have a good constructed plan A and a plan B
Play to OUR strengths, not to the oppositions weaknesses
Be positive, even if we lose, lose in a positive way
Play heads up rugby – use the grey stuff between the ears
To play to win, not to not lose

What do you think is the most important aspect missing?


Last edited by Riskysports on Tue 18 Dec 2012, 2:16 am; edited 1 time in total

R!skysports

Posts : 3648
Join date : 2011-03-17

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by OzT Tue 18 Dec 2012, 2:01 am

Riskysports, I know your feelings, been there myself when ourr side lost 9 games on the trot, and then the attempts at rebuilds after with 2 managers... it is a gutting feeling.

and during that time what I wanted from the Wallabies and the management is what's just number 1 on your list, passion.

Passion and pride in playing for your country. Once the squad has that the rest can be worked on, without it then it's a bit of a hit and miss.

I wish you guys well in the 6Ns.

OzT

Posts : 1164
Join date : 2011-02-11
Location : Chessington

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 18 Dec 2012, 2:45 am

Great post Risky.

For me I want the new coach, whoever that is to pick the best players for their positions and put no pressure on them.

I want to see Passion and Pride but that comes from the players, not the coach. As I said previously if pulling on the Navy Blue shirt in a Murryfield dressing room, looking at the players names on the wall beside your shirt peg, names like Finlay Calder, Gary Armstrong, Gavin Hastings, Gordon Brown, Tom Smith, Ian McGeechan, Craig Chalmers the list goes on. If seeing those names who have pulled on the shirt before you doesn't get you buzzing I don't know what will!

As coach I would ask every player to either tell me or write down on a piece of Paper the position they WANT to play in. I won't play people out of position just to get some guys on the pitch.

Most importantly though I would come up with 1 or maybe 2 set piece moves from Lineouts or Scrums, apart from that, I would want every single player to play heads up, simple rugby. Tell the players : results trully do not matter, just go out there and play rugby.

Scottish Rugby recently has inherited Robinsons fear of losing instead of trying to win. Get out there, play rugby and play whats in front of you.
RuggerRadge2611
RuggerRadge2611

Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 37
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by RDW Tue 18 Dec 2012, 8:38 pm

Great post - must be putting in a last ditch effort to win the votes for Scottish 606er of the year! Very Happy

Scotland always do well when they are down and out and no one expects them to do anything. So by that logic we're going to walk this 6N! Yahoo

Seriously though my expectation are that we'll put up a brave fight against England - the old enemy, the first game since the dismal AIs, new players and new coach - but ultimately lose.

We'll then beat Wales, lose to Ireland, beat Italy and again have a spirited but ultimately futile performance against the Frenchies.

And to be honest I'd be perfectly happy if that happened!

I keep saying it to try and make me believe it - we do have good individuals, we're just missing something as a team. Here's hoping passion and anger is enough to get them through this 6N.

RDW
Founder
Founder

Posts : 31922
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Sydney

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by BoyneRFC Tue 18 Dec 2012, 8:41 pm

Scotland could beat Wales Ireland Italy and possibly England, but one of these in any one season.

Their issue is consistency. Bit like Ireland.

BoyneRFC

Posts : 493
Join date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by TJ1 Tue 18 Dec 2012, 8:44 pm

Riskysports wrote:
What do you think is the most important aspect missing?

A decent coach

almost all the failures / disasters you list can be laid firmly at the feet of Robinson - especially the team sheet for the calcutta cup match which as you say was a clear signpost to 6N failure

TJ1

Posts : 2666
Join date : 2011-08-07

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by George Carlin Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:15 am

Absolutely, we need an experienced coach with a new voice, strategy and techniques. That is categorically the Most Important Thing In The World (beating a change in US gun laws into second place).

The SRU's reputation (such as it may be for a squadron of gin-soaked, tweedy coffin dodgers) rests on getting a great professional, giving them free reign to tear the existing system to shreds and paying them well for it.

We have the players. We just need to tell them what to do.

Roll on 2013. The pack is good - international quality in every position.

A back three of Maitland, Visser and Hogg was fantasy territory as recently as 2-3 years ago.

Now it's 6N 2013 reality.
George Carlin
George Carlin
Admin
Admin

Posts : 15322
Join date : 2011-06-24
Location : United Arab Emirates

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by R!skysports Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:31 am

RDW_Scotland - absoblody loootly looking for votes :-)

Not sure the coach is the answer, at least not the whole answer

Our Pro teams are not doing great in any real competition

No surprise that people like Ford looked dis-interested in playing at Edinburgh, then was poor in the Scotland shirt

I think there are many aspect, but I will stand by my first point

Passion - passion and more passion


R!skysports

Posts : 3648
Join date : 2011-03-17

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:33 am

1. Get the right coach.

2. Pick the right team.

I know, I'm dreaming.

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 16824
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 41
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by InjuredYetAgain Wed 19 Dec 2012, 3:33 am

Regain some respect is toip of my lost. Whether that is through winning or playing well, I am not massively bothered although winning might be nice. At the moment, we are a bit of a laughing stock.
Oh yes, one more thing. Make sure the opposition catch the norovirus the week of the match - that seems to increase your chances of winning Whistle

InjuredYetAgain

Posts : 1317
Join date : 2011-06-03
Age : 56
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by dummy_half Wed 19 Dec 2012, 4:13 am

InjuredYetAgain wrote:Regain some respect is toip of my lost. Whether that is through winning or playing well, I am not massively bothered although winning might be nice. At the moment, we are a bit of a laughing stock.
Oh yes, one more thing. Make sure the opposition catch the norovirus the week of the match - that seems to increase your chances of winning Whistle

IYA
We'll let you have the keys to the lab, but only after the Calcutta Cup match - your boys always seem up enough for that one Smile

dummy_half

Posts : 5722
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 50
Location : East Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by majesticimperialman Wed 19 Dec 2012, 4:46 am

Riskysports.

I would not worry tooooooooo much about being in third tier for the Rugby World Cup.

At least you Wales to keep you company. Whistle


majesticimperialman

Posts : 6028
Join date : 2011-02-12

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by majesticimperialman Wed 19 Dec 2012, 5:05 am

On a serious note. Scotland put 3 tries on the All Blacks. Yes they Lost.

But you have to ask if they can score 3 tries against the All Blacks, then why can the not score 3 tries against NH teams?

Scotland have to play at the top of their game like they did Against NZ. From the first kick off and not let up until the last whistle goes.

majesticimperialman

Posts : 6028
Join date : 2011-02-12

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by Guest Wed 19 Dec 2012, 5:10 am

Wales 3rd tier? how embarrassing for the English get beat at home by a third tier nation,
Grand Slam champs Madge, also England have to come to Cardiff this time round!ouch.

Scotland need to keep up the pace, they seem to have one or two moments that lose them a game, yellow card, defence out of line etc..
Scotland are a good team with some good players just need different tactics.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by RDW Wed 19 Dec 2012, 5:13 am

Let's not let another Scottish thread somehow turn into Welsh-English bickering guys...

RDW
Founder
Founder

Posts : 31922
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Sydney

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by majesticimperialman Wed 19 Dec 2012, 6:29 am

viewtothegym

Wales was Grand Slam champions in 2012.

But for 2015 Rugby World Cup Wales have been placed in the third tier. ok thumbsup

majesticimperialman

Posts : 6028
Join date : 2011-02-12

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by Guest Wed 19 Dec 2012, 6:51 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Let's not let another Scottish thread somehow turn into Welsh-English bickering guys...

How's about you warn the guy who continued to do so after your warning then please? Considering he dragged it down in the first place anyway.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 19 Dec 2012, 8:32 am

Win a game, any game, feicing tiddlywinks if that's what it takes

Braveheart

AsLongAsBut100ofUs

Posts : 14129
Join date : 2011-03-26
Age : 110
Location : Devon/London

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by bsando Wed 19 Dec 2012, 8:43 am

Great Article Risky!

I actually said that Scotland would be a force to contend with by 2013 or 2014, I am now thinking more 2014 but I am feeling more positive about Scotland for next 6N than I did this time last year.

Consistency is definitely a huge issue for Scotland, especially in the 6N. I hate how they can play well one week and then go back to square one the next. A solid gameplan is needed that they can fall back on when things go bad in a game.

Also, I am beginning to realise (from a certain club) that great players are useless if they're not clicking as a team. This what the new coach HAS to engrain into Scotland.

Its okay to lose games, every team does, but it is not okay to lose games due to playing crap. If Scotland can walk away from the 6N with us fans thinking they played well every game then it doesn't matter the result in my opinion, but yes, wins would be preferable.

A young coach. I think a young coach would be best for Scotland as the team is now very young too, let them all age together for 2015 I say.

bsando

Posts : 3747
Join date : 2011-11-27
Age : 33
Location : London

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by Guest Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:41 am

I think back to 2010 and Scotland had Wales on the ropes in Cardiff,
powerful running from Barclay ,dominant in territory but they just completely bottled it when Wales bit back in the last 10mins.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by nganboy Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:11 pm

Get a NZ coach thumbsup
nganboy
nganboy

Posts : 1868
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 53
Location : New Zealand

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by emack2 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:43 pm

Score more tries,Scotland have often played well even in the RWC but the inability to score tries cost them.The early season tour was a fine start an unbeaten tour.A valiant effort versus the All Blacks 3 tries scored Ai`s well?Scotland have in recent years beaten Argentina and Australia away at full strength have a solid pack.Get the backs working as a try scoring unit NOT play a predictable conservative game relying on penaltys to win.

emack2

Posts : 3686
Join date : 2011-04-01
Age : 79
Location : Bournemouth

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 19 Dec 2012, 8:01 pm

nganboy wrote:Get a NZ coach thumbsup
+1

With Chick Chalmers as his assistant, no feicin nonsense there! (And before IBD says that Melrose have dropped this year, so Chalmers is no longer a decent coach, think about his record over the last 5 years and consider how many players the Rose have lost to Embra and Glasgow - Wight, Dick, Thompson, etc)

AsLongAsBut100ofUs

Posts : 14129
Join date : 2011-03-26
Age : 110
Location : Devon/London

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by NeilyBroon Wed 19 Dec 2012, 9:59 pm

Sorry to ruin your hopes of a NZ coach and Chalmers assistant, this has all but confirmed my fears. Might as well prepare for another Wooden Spoon I guess!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/rugby-aussie-johnson-in-line-for-scotland-coach-job-with-massimo-cuttitta-as-assistant-1-2698870

NeilyBroon
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3007
Join date : 2012-01-13
Age : 31
Location : Southampton

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by Bathman_in_London Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:15 pm

What needs to happen is to win!

But the issue is (I think in rugby in general) is that it is easier to get a team to play with a big pack, look for penalties etc. than it is to encourage high risk/tempo running rugby.

So despite the need to win games, I think Johnson (really?!) needs to focus on trying to win games and the Scottish game plan, rather than focusing on stopping the opposition playing. Of course the issue is than whatever fans say, if he finishes with 0-1 win after the 6N but plucky defeats, you can imagine the media turning against him.

He will have Visser and Maitland of course, which is more firepower than Robbo had at his disposal!


Bathman_in_London

Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:16 pm

Do the SRU want Scotland to win or what? furious

I'll give him a chance. Everyone deserves a chance to prove themselves but this is not the route I would have wanted Scotland to go down.
RuggerRadge2611
RuggerRadge2611

Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 37
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by NeilyBroon Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:21 pm

I worry more that he's a journeyman and will just bugger off at the first opportunity. We need more stability at the helm than Scott Johnson, Robinson credit to him stuck with Scotland and you got a sense of loyalty, despite the fact he had a pretty turbulent time of it.

I think, if this is true, its possibly one of the worst decisions since Matt Williams, and I can sense another couple of seasons like his tenure.

NeilyBroon
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 3007
Join date : 2012-01-13
Age : 31
Location : Southampton

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by funnyExiledScot Thu 20 Dec 2012, 1:27 am

That better be an interim solution, purely because a top coach has said that he can only join at the end of the season.

I will of course give whoever has the job my full support, and will judge him on what he delivers, but I find it difficult to justify this appointment on any grounds other than financial.

If this is true, then the last three appointments by the SRU are Scott Johnson as head coach of Scotland, Gregor Townsend as head coach of Glasgow, and Michael Bradley as head coach of Edinburgh.

Not a single one of them with a CV you'd blow your nose on frankly.

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 16824
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 41
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by Guest Thu 20 Dec 2012, 5:20 am

Well the last thing Scotland need to do is have Scott Johnson in charge................oh wait Doh

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 20 Dec 2012, 10:35 pm

Why no chance to win against the ABs. History suggests that's the case but if you go in with that attitude then history will continue to repeat itself. If you can beat every other team in the world, you can beat any team in the world. Don't fall for our cheap Jedi mind tricks. Hug

kiakahaaotearoa

Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Madrid

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 20 Dec 2012, 10:36 pm

As for what do they need to do in the 6N. Win some games and win them well. What Scotland need after this autumn is confidence. That comes from winning and even more so when you play well.

kiakahaaotearoa

Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Madrid

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 20 Dec 2012, 10:38 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Why no chance to win against the ABs. History suggests that's the case but if you go in with that attitude then history will continue to repeat itself. If you can beat every other team in the world, you can beat any team in the world. Don't fall for our cheap Jedi mind tricks. Hug

It's not mind tricks. The gulf in class is enormous. We have no chance of beating NZ with this group of players at this stage. Perhaps in a few years when players like Denton, Visser etc mature into their roles then maybe.

But for the moment... no chance.
RuggerRadge2611
RuggerRadge2611

Posts : 7194
Join date : 2011-03-05
Age : 37
Location : The North, The REAL North (Beyond the Wall)

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 20 Dec 2012, 10:41 pm

But you've beaten Australia and SA with similar gulfs. If you put NZ up on a pedestal there they will always remain.

kiakahaaotearoa

Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-11
Location : Madrid

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by TJ1 Fri 21 Dec 2012, 8:48 am

Riskysports wrote:RDW_Scotland - absoblody loootly looking for votes :-)

Not sure the coach is the answer, at least not the whole answer

Our Pro teams are not doing great in any real competition
I think the coaching at Edinburgh and Glasgow is also poor. Some players also seem to have taken good form into into the internationals and returned to their clubs out of form

No surprise that people like Ford looked dis-interested in playing at Edinburgh, then was poor in the Scotland shirt

I think there are many aspect, but I will stand by my first point

Passion - passion and more passion


There is certainly a large mental / psychological component to Scotland poor forms. How to alter this is not so easy but something is wrong. They have not been playing as a team and appear less than the sum of the parts and heads drop when loosing.

Why does Ford look the shadow of the player of a couple of years ago? Laidlaw who masterminded great wins for Edinburgh last year look like a rabbit in your headlights?



TJ1

Posts : 2666
Join date : 2011-08-07

Back to top Go down

What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations? Empty Re: What does Scotland need to do in the 6 nations?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum