Planet Rugby Team of the Year

Planet Rugby's Team of the Year

15 Israel Dagg (Crusaders & New Zealand) - The majority ruled on this one as Israel Dagg gets in ahead of Leigh Halfpenny after another superb year for franchise and country. Dagg keeps on producing at full-back and while Halfpenny was strong throughout, the Kiwi was a touch better.
Bubbling under: Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues & Wales)

14 Bryan Habana (Stormers & South Africa) - After a moment of deliberation, we went for Bryan Habana over JP Pietersen. In truth it was a simple decision after the veteran's outstanding Rugby Championship campaign when he scored the International Rugby Players' Association's Try of 2012.
Bubbling under: JP Pietersen (Sharks & South Africa)

13 Conrad Smith (Hurricanes & New Zealand) - This was arguably the quickest decision we made in the selection process. Conrad Smith was superb all year, with his leadership of a young Hurricanes team given no hope in pre-season something that has to be hailed.
Bubbling under: Jonathan Davies (Scarlets & Wales)

12 Sonny Bill Williams (Chiefs & New Zealand) - There was a whisper at PR questioning whether the Chiefs would have won the Super Rugby title without SBW? There is no doubt, however, that he was developing into a fine centre, with six months of action enough for us.
Bubbling under: Wesley Fofana (Clermont & France)

11 Julian Savea (Hurricanes & New Zealand) - Nine tries in your debut Super Rugby year, twelve scores in your first nine internationals for your country: 2012 has been quiet a season for Julian Savea. He would be the first to credit others, such as Conrad Smith, but there is no doubting that the 'Canes finisher has the tools to become a frequent scorer for years to come. We feel applause must go to AB coach Steve Hansen too for managing him well.
Bubbling under: Gonzalo Camacho (Exeter & Argentina)

10 Dan Carter (Crusaders & New Zealand) - An average game by his standards is deemed an great day at the office by so many others. While Dan Carter wasn't around all year, when he was rivals struggled to cope as he bounced back from an injury riddled 2011 strongly.
Bubbling under: Fred Michalak (Sharks & France)

9 Ruan Pienaar (Ulster & South Africa) - Maybe seen as a surprise call by some but the performances of Ruan Pienaar for Ulster during both their Heineken Cup and RaboDirect PRO12 campaigns were excellent. He saved his province plenty of times with key goal-kicks but it was the calming presence he provided that sees him get in ahead of Aaron Smith. It is also worth noting the difference he made when taking over at nine from Francois Hougaard.
Bubbling under: Aaron Smith (Highlanders & New Zealand)

8 Kieran Read (Crusaders & New Zealand) - There was a two for two tie at PR HQ before deciding votes came from other contributors that meant Kieran Read got the nod ahead of Louis Picamoles. Picamoles has been a carrying machine all year for Toulouse and France but Read just possesses rugby intelligence in spades to go alongside many man-of-the-match efforts, which means he takes the eight spot. He was a superb leader in Canterbury.
Bubbling under: Louis Picamoles (Toulouse & France)

7 Richie McCaw (Crusaders & New Zealand) - 65% of our readers went with him, 100% of us did the same. Richie McCaw put in yet another impressive campaign for his country, but may be left disappointed at drawing with Australia before losing to England. Over his six months off though he may realise just what he has achieved in the past year or so as World Cup triumph was followed by a 100th Test victory with the All Blacks. Rest up, Richie.
Bubbling under: Francois Louw (Bath & South Africa)

6 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (Toulon & Argentina) - While Dan Lydiate enjoyed an exceptional Six Nations, Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe was a joy to watch in the Rugby Championship. The 31-year-old Toulon back-row seamlessly switched between blindside and eight all year and those efforts from August to October were a sight to behold as he combined a high tackle count with line-out takes and general classy play around the field.
Bubbling under: Dan Lydiate (Dragons & Wales)

5 Nathan Sharpe (Western Force & Australia) - An extended international career due to the absence of James Horwill meant that "Sharpey" gave it one final slog in the Gold jersey this year. It paid off for both player and coach as Nathan Sharpe left everything on the field for his country and thus won his second John Eales Medal before calling it day. On a side note, a mention must go to Ireland's Donnacha Ryan who continues to grow into a solid lock.
Bubbling under: Donnacha Ryan (Munster & Ireland)

4 Eben Etzebeth (Stormers & South Africa) - Debut seasons like this usually do not come from players in the engine room. Eben Etzebeth bucked that trend this year as the Western Province native's physicality was a feature in both Super Rugby and Springbok rugby. One concern is that he may take the Bakkies Botha hard man similarities too seriously and thus pick himself up a reputation, which we hope is not the case. A real talent has emerged.
Bubbling under: Sam Whitelock (Crusaders & New Zealand)

3 Census Johnston (Toulouse & Samoa) - We went for two islanders as our props this year but it wasn't a unanimous decision at tighthead. Dan Cole continues to mature into an outstanding front-rower but we can't remember Toulouse's pack ever being in big trouble in 2012 and Census Johnston was one reason why. His efforts for an in-form Samoan side were also admirable so the votes went the way of the 31-year-old, who's pushing 140 kgs.
Bubbling under: Dan Cole (Leicester & England)

2 Rory Best (Ulster and Ireland) - His form seldom dipped when wearing either white or green as Rory Best shone for Ireland and Ulster during the Heineken Cup, PRO12, Six Nations and June series. Even in a losing squad in New Zealand, Kiwi pundits noted his performances for his country so we felt he pips Adriaan Strauss. Massive credit to the Bok though as his all-action style meant Bismarck du Plessis' absence wasn't noticeable.
Bubbling under: Adriaan Strauss (Cheetahs & South Africa)

1 Sona Taumalolo (Chiefs & Tonga) - Again a tough selection decision as Cian Healy made the British & Irish Lions loosehead jersey his own this past year after great shifts for Leinster and Ireland. However, there was a Tongan making serious noise in the southern hemisphere in 2012 as Sona Taumalolo rivalled wingers in the Super Rugby try charts and also was strong in the dark arts. Tonga truly is blessed in the loosehead prop department.
Bubbling under: Cian Healy (Leinster & Ireland)

What do people think? Overall seems quite fair to me

I would have Cole ahead of Johnson at 3 for his all round work.

The PR team obviously have short memories if they don't remember the 'Toulouse pack ever being in trouble in 2012' - they went backwards on at least one occasion against the Ospreys recently.

but in general it's a fair pick I would agree.

Fair enough spose. I think there is someone with Ulster connections working for Planetrugby and this is reflected possibly in Piennar and Best's inclusions though they probably just about deserve it all the same.

Not that many hookers though Guns that are standing head and shoulders above the rest.

Think Aaron Smith is pretty close to the best 9 in the world after Genia but is on better form

fyi think this has possibly been discussed already ! (sorry to be picky)
https://www.606v2.com/t38520-team-of-2012

Not sure why Aaron Smith is rated so highly. When England put him under pressure he panicked. The best way to judge a scrum half is how they perform when the pack is going backwards. In Smith's that is very poorly.

I am surprised Rory Best is chosen over Strauss, I am also surprised to see Pienaar.

Kahn Fotuali'i has probably been the best 9 this year

Cian Healey belongs in that line up. He was a one man team in NZ and he is a turn over monster and a defensive brick wall. A must pick for the Lions.

Cian Healy and Dan Cole both deserve to be in the front row IMO. Other than that I'd agree with everything there.

I'd agree with Cole, best TH in the world by a mile right now!!

Healy you can see an argument for but the Tongan has been superb too!

Pienaar and Smith are poor calls, Fortuali has been the form 9 on every stage this season, and Genia blew everyone away until injury! SBW left before Genias injury didn't he???

I always tend to have issues with Dagg and Reid, they tend to do whats expected without excelling but are constantly in a winning team and have the platform to not worry about making mistakes, both good players but IMHO not best in the world!

Habana I wouldn't have had, his recent form has been better but most of the year he was nowheresville!

Some very unlucky players IMHO...

Imhoff
Fofana
Manu Tuilagi
Cole
Gray
and 1/2 have all probably proved themselves to make the team IMHO...

1. Taumololo
2. Strauss
3. Cole
4. Sharpe
5. Whitelock/Gray
6. Higginthbottom/Lobbe
7. Mccaw
8. Read
9. Fortuali
10. Carter
11.Imhoff
12.Fofana
13.Tuilagi/Smith
14.Savea
15.1/2p

Read and Dagg "do what's expected" crikey, that's harsh. Both are extraordinary. And then you throw in 1/2p? Purlease....

Joined xmas day???

Did you enjoy your WUM award mate?

No Wum mate. Indulge me on where you see 1/2p as providing the "extraordinary" that Dagg or Beale or Lambie or Kirchner lacks?

1/2p was probably Wales best player in the AIs but you have to admit that the standard was uncharacteristically low?

And on top of that...isn't he injured?

ThePantomimeVillain wrote:No Wum mate. Indulge me on where you see 1/2p as providing the "extraordinary" that Dagg or Beale or Lambie or Kirchner lacks?

Now theres a challenge...

Whereas SBW is still playing top class stuff for club and country?

1/2p single handedly carried a linebreak threat through the 6N, scored most of our points that won a grand slam, made match winning tackles week in week out not to mention hadn't been in a winning team since despite outshining every opposing player he's come against!

You want to know one peice of extraordinary that Dagg, Beale, Kirtchner or Lambie hasn't been able to produce?

10 points per game +, match winning kicks, match winning try savers and match winning tries, which of the list above can claim that this season?

And I won't mention that Lambie hasn't played all this year, let alone at FB, and has Beale played FB this year for more than the odd 20? I rate Kirtchner and Dagg but they are on par with the likes of Foden for me, and none have had a particularly outstanding year!

I seem to recall 1/2p missing several vital tackles that let the wallabies and ABs in for crucial tries.

Dagg is a great goal kicker he just doesn't need to because carter and cruden are so good.

Just 10 points for the primary kicker is low by international standards.

Like I said he looked to be Wales best player in the AIs but let's put that in context that Wales were poor.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whereas SBW is still playing top class stuff for club and country?

1/2p single handedly carried a linebreak threat through the 6N, scored most of our points that won a grand slam, made match winning tackles week in week out not to mention hadn't been in a winning team since despite outshining every opposing player he's come against!

You want to know one peice of extraordinary that Dagg, Beale, Kirtchner or Lambie hasn't been able to produce?

10 points per game +, match winning kicks, match winning try savers and match winning tries, which of the list above can claim that this season?

And I won't mention that Lambie hasn't played all this year, let alone at FB, and has Beale played FB this year for more than the odd 20? I rate Kirtchner and Dagg but they are on par with the likes of Foden for me, and none have had a particularly outstanding year!

Starting with the end of 2011...
Dagg singlehandedly set up the only try of the Wcup semi final by running through the Oz defence and when tackled threw a brilliant pass into Nonu...
Meanwhile...on the other stage...halfpenny missed the potential winning penalty that could have seen Wales into the final.

And Dagg does not kick goals for the AB's so we are not comparing kickers here, suffice to say I would bet that Dagg would give 1/2p a run for his money, a very good kicker himself.

Big stage...big players.

2012- Oz vs Australia- care of ESPN rugby.
"Man of the Match: Israel Dagg popped up with the opening try, a scintillating break (with a little help from Richie McCaw) and closed the game down at the death by chasing his own kick to set-up Dan Carter's final penalty. Excellent."

Single handedly stood up and ran around Beale to score.

2012- NZ vs SA 2012- One of the best tries of 2012. Has 1/2p done this? 4 times was involved in the play. Read also was brilliant to take up and offload. Are these things a fulback normally does to South Africa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rJD1j5-5_0

In all Dagg scored 5 test tries in 2012:
1 vs Ireland
2 vs Australia
1 vs South Africa
1 Scotland.

He also set up mumerous tries for Savea, Jane et all during the year. He was also invincible in the air, never missing a high ball that I can recall, often returning it with interest.

Halfpanny scored 2- vs Scotland.

Sure he plays for the ABs but you judge a player on what he does, not what he is unable to do. Halfpenny is nowhere near Daggs league, at his fairly young age already probably the best fullback since Cullen. Foden, Kirchner vs Dagg? Really?

...and on this whole "he looks good because he plays for NZ" thing. The reverse is generally true. By example if you put something that is blue but a little red tinted in front of a blue background it looks red, in front of a red background it looks blue.

I put it to you then that in a great team it is the mistakes that stand out more than the achievements. Dagg is probably better than he appears.

I seem to recall 1/2p missing several vital tackles that let the wallabies and ABs in for crucial tries

Starting with the end of 2011.. (lets not it is a 2012 thread )

Dagg is probably better than he appears. He appears to a crowd mesmorising when he has a constant open feild to run into, to a cultured eye he's doing a decent job in a team that gives him the best platform possible and far better than any other wing in the world.

And let's be clear, Dagg might be a decent kicker, but unable to get beyond a NZ 10, 1/2p would certainly be pushing Carter and have ousted Cruden comfortably in the kicking duels. Infact I'd go as far to say that anything beyond 40m would certainly see Carter hand the ball to 1/2p!

All your arguments are flawed, Daggs strike rat will always be up there, for every decent break he makes theres 3 times he's put into positions other FB's can only dream about! Infact I'd go as far to say that Daggs lines have become lazy, and he should be offering more on a consistent level.

Read has the same argument IMO, and both he and Dagg reminds me of Owen of the welsh 2005 GS, they bot look great when they have an armchair ride, able to show all their qualities, but the smallest hint of pressure and they quickly become average.

Absolute wishful hyperbole bluesman. Dagg probably more than any other player is creating chances from nothing especially when the pressure is on. How many times has he invoked some magic to change the flow of the game and get the ABs on the front foot? How many times does he make the decisive break and clinch the game for NZ? Just countless now.

You clearly missed carter raking the ball over from 50-60 out numerous times this year and if anything cruden has been more accurate. 1/2p would not get near an AB starting spot I'm afraid.

As for read, we'll he's head and shoulders the best 8 in the world at the moment and aside from that, a worthy all black captain.

Besides that...the comparison is just silly...is halfpenny the certain choice at FB for the Lions?

not only is he not favourite according to this list:

https://www.606v2.com/t38878-our-teams-suggested-for-the-lions-2013-tour

(Kearney is- who excelled poorly in the Irish tour here in '12 and certainly didnt outplay Dagg)

he's even considered behind Foden.

So could it be that there is not just one, but 3 better fullbacks than Dagg..amazing.

Daag has been exceptional for a good couple of years now. He creates chances from nowhere, finishes any chance he gets given and is at least solid in all his core skills and exceptional in some. Definitely deserves his place in that side anyway!

Taylorman wrote:Besides that...the comparison is just silly...is halfpenny the certain choice at FB for the Lions?

not only is he not favourite according to this list:

https://www.606v2.com/t38878-our-teams-suggested-for-the-lions-2013-tour

(Kearney is- who excelled poorly in the Irish tour here in '12 and certainly didnt outplay Dagg)

he's even considered behind Foden.

So could it be that there is not just one, but 3 better fullbacks than Dagg..amazing.

Its all very subjective Taylorman, the Irish will say Kearney is the best fullback we have, the English will say Foden and the Welsh will say Halfpenny. You say 'he's even considered behind Foden' are you referring to Kearney? As I don't think anyone considers Kearney behind Foden apart from England fans, I think most neutrals would opt for Kearney.

As for those questioning Best's inclusion - he was outstanding in New Zealand as part of a well beaten Irish team, and is currently the highest tackler in the HC and has won more turnovers in the HC than any other player, including opensides and he's done all that from hooker. The man is on fire at the minute. He's also a great captain.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Besides that...the comparison is just silly...is halfpenny the certain choice at FB for the Lions?

not only is he not favourite according to this list:

https://www.606v2.com/t38878-our-teams-suggested-for-the-lions-2013-tour

(Kearney is- who excelled poorly in the Irish tour here in '12 and certainly didnt outplay Dagg)

he's even considered behind Foden.

So could it be that there is not just one, but 3 better fullbacks than Dagg..amazing.

Its all very subjective Taylorman, the Irish will say Kearney is the best fullback we have, the English will say Foden and the Welsh will say Halfpenny. You say 'he's even considered behind Foden' are you referring to Kearney? As I don't think anyone considers Kearney behind Foden apart from England fans, I think most neutrals would opt for Kearney.

Sorry artful. Theres nothing subjective about it. Its not tiddly winks, guessing games. Dagg is so far ahead of Foden, Kearney and whoever you can't even see it. Dagg is the best 15 from NZ, from the SH, I doubt our Southern hemisphere foes would doubt that. Yet its 'subjective' that 1/2p might be the best. Please....

Dagg IMHO is on par with the likes of Kirtchner and Foden, IMHO Kearney has the ability to outperform any of them and 1/2p offers more than any.

Any Kiwi will think Dagg is awesome, but if I played either side of Savea and Jane, and hit the line with the likes of Nonu and Smith feeding me in their differing ways I'd look world class too!!

I think your getting a little emotional when one of your players is called very good, but not the best.

PS Taylorman, if your rational is correct then surely Goode is the best FB in the world, I mean being the first choice over Foden and all.
And IMHO arguing for Daggs goalkicking because he doesn't get the chance is tantamount to arguing for 1/2p strike rate as he doesn't get the opportunities.

Kirchner isn't that great, he doesn't pass, he has no sidestep (contrary to what he believes) can only run straight and goes dead with the ball in hand 90% of the time.

Lambie is a much better full back.

See now I quite like Kirtchner, and his abilities are similar to Daggs, except he isn't quite as good defencively and not as agile. With the likes of Habana and JP on either wing the attacking gameplan focus's on them and Kirtchner only joins when need be, plus neither of those players would give the ball up with anything less than a full pack in front of them. Kirtchner tends to be a 2nd thought.

JP is actaully quite the distributor, the reason is he runs lines to keep support players in play and looks often for the offload.

Habana goes for the finish and seldom looks to offload.

Kirchner runs from deep, seldom if ever joins the line, he also tends to kick and chase his own kick, mostly ineffectively.

Well TBF Biltong the idea of him chasing his own kicks will not be Kirtchners call, if the SA team wanted him to kick and drop he would be.

IMHO you put Kirtchner in the AB team with their gameplan and you'd prob see the best of him, similarly to Kearney!

Dagg overall was number 1 in 2012.

Kearney in first half of 2012 was exceptional. Thought he did quite well in NZ considering the task facing the team. IIRC Dagg hit Kearney late in second test and got carded for it?

Don't see how anyone could argue about Dagg being in there he is one that is nailed on IMO

thebluesmancometh wrote:See now I quite like Kirtchner, and his abilities are similar to Daggs, except he isn't quite as good defencively and not as agile.

whew... We must watch different matches.

Kirchner is like Dagg in the way that a pair of socks is like a dolphin.

ThePantomimeVillain wrote:Kirchner is like Dagg in the way that a pair of socks is like a dolphin.

+1

Taylorman wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Besides that...the comparison is just silly...is halfpenny the certain choice at FB for the Lions?

not only is he not favourite according to this list:

https://www.606v2.com/t38878-our-teams-suggested-for-the-lions-2013-tour

(Kearney is- who excelled poorly in the Irish tour here in '12 and certainly didnt outplay Dagg)

he's even considered behind Foden.

So could it be that there is not just one, but 3 better fullbacks than Dagg..amazing.

Its all very subjective Taylorman, the Irish will say Kearney is the best fullback we have, the English will say Foden and the Welsh will say Halfpenny. You say 'he's even considered behind Foden' are you referring to Kearney? As I don't think anyone considers Kearney behind Foden apart from England fans, I think most neutrals would opt for Kearney.

Sorry artful. Theres nothing subjective about it. Its not tiddly winks, guessing games. Dagg is so far ahead of Foden, Kearney and whoever you can't even see it. Dagg is the best 15 from NZ, from the SH, I doubt our Southern hemisphere foes would doubt that. Yet its 'subjective' that 1/2p might be the best. Please....

Actually if you read my post you will see that I was saying it was subjective between who was the best out of Kearney, Foden and Halfpenny and I didn't mention or compare Dagg to any of them.

ThePantomimeVillain wrote:Kirchner is like Dagg in the way that a pair of socks is like a dolphin.

So much emotion over one player being good but not great in one guys view...

How about we move the goal posts to SBW, Smith, Read would there be the same outcry?

IMHO Read and SBW can be replaced easily, especially considering Genia was the outstanding 9 by a country mile until injury and SBW moved before Genias injury, infact didn't he move similar time as to Kearneys injury too?

Daggs a good player, but nowhere near as important to a team as 1/2p, not as influential as 1/2p and enjoys an armchair ride with the best wing in the world one side of him and a very good one the other, not to mention the best 13 inside him.

I'll still have 1/2p over Dagg this year, if only for 1/2p's bravery and knocking himself out cold numerous times for try savers and match winning kicks, infact from memory I can name 4 results minimum that wouldve lost Wales a result/not kept his country in the game.
Dagg just can't boast the same credentials as 1/2p this year.

This seems to be all about context for you bluesman. But I still think you are wrong. I'd rate Dagg as having been just was influential for NZ.

His ability to diffuse the up and under game has kept NZs nose infront of the springboks and he may well have single handedly shattered the confidence and ended Morne Steyns career a a result of it.

We aren't judging who was the most influential on their team we are judging who was the best player in 2012

Pete

And you are right, I just think when put in a head to head Dagg may have the edge ability wise, yet 1/2p has performed to a higher level overall this season.

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that this is not who has the most ability, who is the most talented or who has the better reputation, it's who has been the best this year, and that can only be judged by who has performed at what to which level.

IMHO 1/2p has gone from a solid int player at wing from last season to best performer, match winner and the most important player for his country by a country mile! He won both the England and Ireland match in Dublin and Twickers!!

I'd go as far to say that if 1/2p was a kiwi he would be hailed as one of the best ever, and recieve all the extra plaudits some Kiwi players get.

I'm not saying Dagg has been poor, he's been very good, and definately one of the best in the world, but if they swapped positions and Dagg was forced to play in a Blues and Wales team and not seen a W since April I'm not sure he'd be performing to 1/2p's ability whereas I think 1'2p would only look far better in a Crusaders and Kiwi team!!

Perception is a funny thing though - to me 1/2p has gone from being a very good winger to an average (if very brave) full back with an excellent boot. He is a much more consistent performer than the bulk of the Wales team but he doesnt seem to be the attacking threat he used to be. Because of his consistency in a misfiring team and the kicking I think he stands out more than he might in another team.

He could get a lot better though.

LIW

At last someone I agree with about 1/2p, he is an average Fullback nothing more, yet!

far better winger if you ask me.

thebluesmancometh wrote:
IMHO 1/2p has gone from a solid int player at wing from last season to best performer, match winner and the most important player for his country by a country mile! He won both the England and Ireland match in Dublin and Twickers!!

Totally agree, Halfpenny has been a relevation this year... still wouldn't put him on par with Dagg though...... either way who cares...... Jared Payne is better than both..... ......

Which Planet ? Maybe they should rename it:

"Planet Earth, but only south of the equator"

Pot Hale wrote:Dagg overall was number 1 in 2012.

Kearney in first half of 2012 was exceptional. Thought he did quite well in NZ considering the task facing the team. IIRC Dagg hit Kearney late in second test and got carded for it?

I think that was Zak Guildford no?

Anyway Kearney has been injured for a long time so off most radars. Prior to his injury he was right up there with Dagg.

rodders wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:
IMHO 1/2p has gone from a solid int player at wing from last season to best performer, match winner and the most important player for his country by a country mile! He won both the England and Ireland match in Dublin and Twickers!!

Totally agree, Halfpenny has been a relevation this year... still wouldn't put him on par with Dagg though...... either way who cares...... Jared Payne is better than both..... ......

Well bluesman, I concede this: if NZ had played as consistently poorly as Wales did in 2012 during the AIs and 1/2p had played for NZ as well as Dagg did, then I would agree with you. I think that's as far as I can go to your line of argument though.

Guns

What tickles me about the Kearney injury argument against him, is that didn't SBW move the same time as the Kearney injury, and certainly before the Genia injury so how come SBW is mentioned and the other 2 not?

This article couldve been named a panto/AWOP/Ghost thread!

And Dagg does throw himself on the line. Many times he has been injured taking high balls and tackles- a la South Africa this year in Sowetto. He also scored and set up more tries than 1/5p during the year. And from what Ive seen 1/2p isnt even the best FB rated by all NH sides. Yet in the SH, the 1-3 rated teams, most tend to agree Dagg is the premier Fullback. Regardless of where I'm from, that seems a more convincing argument.

And would 1/2p play better in the NZ or Crusaders sides..frankly no. Hes not used to being on consistently winning sides, and given hes rated not a lot higher than others in the Welsh side as contributors to their results, 1/2p's mere presence must contribute partially to their losses. Dagg on the other hand, contributes rarely to a loss.

We are simply talking different standards of play, and therefore ability. After all, there must be reasons why he Abs keep winning, and Dagg is right up there as one of them, particularly in 2012.