According to Haye....

Vitali Klitshcko will go down as a nodody who fought nobody if he does not accept Hayes invitation to fight him.

Some of you might be rightly asking 'who is David Haye?' He shows his bum on prime time tele.

All talk and its doubtful he believes it himself, just trying to talk him in to a fight.

There's a modicum of truth in that. Vitali hasn't fought anyone very good at all bar an old Lennox Lewis which isn't his fault. The only other decent fighter in his weight class is his brother.

hazharrison wrote:There's a modicum of truth in that. Vitali hasn't fought anyone very good at all bar an old Lennox Lewis which isn't his fault. The only other decent fighter in his weight class is his brother.

True but it would remain true whether or not he fought Haye

Haye would KO Vitali.

Vitali will not want to fight him.

Haye did take on and beat Valuev, who Vitali avoided throughout his career.

Haye is the greatest!

It Must Be Love wrote:Haye would KO Vitali.

Vitali will not want to fight him.

Can you also look into the future and tell me who will win the world cup in 2014?

Fair point. Vitali gets his credit for giving Lewis a really hard fight although he still lost the fight. since then he has not really fought any top contenders. a few threats but nothing really class.

Haye would at least be a another decent name to bow out with. But would beating Haye give him more credit than how he gave Lewis his toughest fight?, all be it an aged Lewis. ?

tunes666 wrote: But would beating Haye give him more credit than how he gave Lewis his toughest fight?, all be it an aged Lewis. ?

Based on how quick those who predicted Haye to beat Wlad were to heap praise on Wlad when he battered Haye I would advise against holding your breath waiting for that to happen.

Beating haye does nothing for vk. Losing, underlines that he is another heavyweight who didn't know when to retire. Plenty in it for haye though, plenty of coin that is. Haye is a greedy famehungry loudmouth, if he is serious about the sport, he should show it some respect and take on a ranked fighter, areola would make for an ideal dance partner, and one I'd happily pay to watch.

I actually think that beating Haye would do a hell of a lot for Vitali's reputation and legacy. Haye has quickly re-built his legion of acolytes in the wake of the Wladimir defeat and many of them believe in his invincibility once more, as well as believing that both brothers would rather hook their 'nads up to a car battery than step through the ropes to face him. In theory, once Vitali beats "the only other Heavyweight out there worth fighting" then those concerned would have to concede that, having done so aged forty-odd and clearly past his peak, Vitali has demonstrated that he's a fine champion.

Mind you, as Rowley alludes to, certain people who vowed that Haye would hammer Wladimir to defeat inside schedule on the day of the fight then had the temerity to log on the next day and say that Wladimir's performance was "abysmal" and "embarrassing" amongst others, so perhaps I shouldn't hold my breath on that one!

Not a very popular pair of lads in these here parts at all, those Klitschko brothers.

88Chris05 wrote:.

Mind you, as Rowley alludes to, certain people who vowed that Haye would hammer Wladimir to defeat inside schedule on the day of the fight then had the temerity to log on the next day and say that Wladimir's performance was "abysmal" and "embarrassing" amongst others, so perhaps I shouldn't hold my breath on that one!

Not a very popular pair of lads in these here parts at all, those Klitschko brothers.

Vitali will never get the respect he deserves. He beat Herbie Hide who at the time had 30 knock outs from 31 fights and was the world champion holding the belt for TWO years. Klitschko knocks him out in 2 rounds in England in front of Hide's suporters and no one gives VK any credit.

He comes back from a 4 year retirement and TKO's the world champion in his first fight back. No credit.

He destroys a very good fighter in arreola who was nearly 30 fights undefeated and gets no credit.

He knocks out a very dangerous and very hard hitting Corrie Sanders and took his best shots and stayed standing yet no one gives credit.

If he knocks out Haye people will just say Haye was overrated and not give VK any credit ust the same way they refuse to give wkad any credit for the victory.

Hide, Peter, Sanders and Arreola aren't the fighters legacies are built against which has a fair part to play.

Valuev, Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Ruiz, Harrison aren't the fighters which legacies are built either.

It's a silly fight for Vitali to take as it's too low reward high risk. Having Haye as a scalp will add little or nothing to his CV. If he wins it'll be a case of so what as his kid brother already beat him. If he loses it's disaster as I'm convinced a prime Vitali would have ripped Haye's heart out. Vitali now looks old and slow. His last fight against Charr had the resemblance of a tough old dad beating up his daughter's troublesome boyfriend! Vitali should retire, whatever his legacy there's no-one around that's going to enhance it any further.

Chisora gave Klistchko a tougher fight than Arreola and Haye disposed of him in impressive fashion. So he did it for money? He still did it, and did it more decisively than did Vitali.

If Vitali retires tomorrow, will anyone blame him? He's forty odd, has proved his worth against what was there to beat. He can't go back in time and change the Byrd and Lewis results, but his success since then has covered over those to a degree.

However if he is to fight again, name me the interesting fights out there for him. I'll get you started: Haye. Who else? I'm struggling already.

Wladmir beat an injured Haye, on points. At no point during that fight was Haye or Wladmir even getting closed to knocked out, it was a pretty dull fight.

Anyway as I said I think Haye will dispatch Vitali, 6th round KO.
If the fight happens that is.

victorgarco wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:Haye would KO Vitali.

Vitali will not want to fight him.

Can you also look into the future and tell me who will win the world cup in 2014?

In football?

Germany.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Chisora gave Klistchko a tougher fight than Arreola and Haye disposed of him in impressive fashion. So he did it for money? He still did it, and did it more decisively than did Vitali.

If Vitali retires tomorrow, will anyone blame him? He's forty odd, has proved his worth against what was there to beat. He can't go back in time and change the Byrd and Lewis results, but his success since then has covered over those to a degree.

However if he is to fight again, name me the interesting fights out there for him. I'll get you started: Haye. Who else? I'm struggling already.

I'm actually not so sure if Haye did do a better job with Chisora than Vitali. More impressive certainly but Haye was shaken up a few times in that fight and Vitali, whilst being troubled by Del Boy never really looked in any trouble.

As for Haye being a meaningful fight for Vitali I'm not so sure either. There's noting much to gain now that Haye has nothing but a big mouth. I was hoping for Vitali v Haye rather than Wlad v Haye but apparently the brothers decided which one was going to take the fight via a coin toss? Now Haye's been vanquished and has no belt and has fought but once since his humbling at the hands of Wlad I can't see the attraction in the fight.

Boon, don't think anyone is claiming that Haye has any sort of long lasting legacy but he still stands as the second best win on Wlads record and would be about the same for Vitali too, he does more for them than anyone else legacy or monetary wise.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:
However if he is to fight again, name me the interesting fights out there for him. I'll get you started: Haye. Who else? I'm struggling already.

Either his own brother or David Haye.
OK maybe against Fury or Price sometime next year, in Britain that could generate interest.

Povetkin is dangerous, but i think Wladmir is fighting him next year if my sources are correct.

victorgarco wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:.

Mind you, as Rowley alludes to, certain people who vowed that Haye would hammer Wladimir to defeat inside schedule on the day of the fight then had the temerity to log on the next day and say that Wladimir's performance was "abysmal" and "embarrassing" amongst others, so perhaps I shouldn't hold my breath on that one!

Not a very popular pair of lads in these here parts at all, those Klitschko brothers.

Vitali will never get the respect he deserves. He beat Herbie Hide who at the time had 30 knock outs from 31 fights and was the world champion holding the belt for TWO years. Klitschko knocks him out in 2 rounds in England in front of Hide's suporters and no one gives VK any credit.

He comes back from a 4 year retirement and TKO's the world champion in his first fight back. No credit.

He destroys a very good fighter in arreola who was nearly 30 fights undefeated and gets no credit.

He knocks out a very dangerous and very hard hitting Corrie Sanders and took his best shots and stayed standing yet no one gives credit.

If he knocks out Haye people will just say Haye was overrated and not give VK any credit ust the same way they refuse to give wkad any credit for the victory.

Couldn't agree more. Vitali Klitschko is a fine heavyweight and deserves much more credit than he gets!

Super D Boon wrote:Now Haye's been vanquished and has no belt and has fought but once since his humbling at the hands of Wlad I can't see the attraction in the fight.

It was hardly a humbling, Haye was never even close to getting knocked out. To be fair Haye didn't make much of in an impact either, but who knows maybe he has learnt from his mistakes?
Haye was injured too during the Wladmir fight, maybe this is why he was not attacking enough.

Yeah how could we forget his poorly toe. I'm a big David Haye and have been since his early fights but that was an awful excuse.

hampo171 wrote:Yeah how could we forget his poorly toe. I'm a big David Haye and have been since his early fights but that was an awful excuse.

I don't know about 'excuse' or 'not excuse' but it's the fact.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2011/7/3/1309650388740/David-hayes-broken-toe-007.jpg
His toe was injured, and having had a broken toe myself before I can say it's pretty damn painful.

Of course some may say 'he should have mentioned it before the fight' or 'he could have pulled out' but then he would just look like a coward. In terms of a rematch, if he's fully fit and healthy maybe he can attack more and win??
Who knows?
Wladmir I think would beat Haye if they fought now, I think Wladmir would win on points again. But Vitali, I think haye can topple.

It Must Be Love wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Now Haye's been vanquished and has no belt and has fought but once since his humbling at the hands of Wlad I can't see the attraction in the fight.

It was hardly a humbling, Haye was never even close to getting knocked out. To be fair Haye didn't make much of in an impact either, but who knows maybe he has learnt from his mistakes?
Haye was injured too during the Wladmir fight, maybe this is why he was not attacking enough.

Haye injured! Oh do behave! Just because there was no knock Haye was was still outclassed. Haye won't learn from his mistakes as such, it was a case of simply not being good enough.

Super D Boon wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:Now Haye's been vanquished and has no belt and has fought but once since his humbling at the hands of Wlad I can't see the attraction in the fight.

It was hardly a humbling, Haye was never even close to getting knocked out. To be fair Haye didn't make much of in an impact either, but who knows maybe he has learnt from his mistakes?
Haye was injured too during the Wladmir fight, maybe this is why he was not attacking enough.

Haye injured! Oh do behave! Just because there was no knock Haye was was still outclassed. Haye won't learn from his mistakes as such, it was a case of simply not being good enough.

Well he was injured. An injury is an injury, whichever part of your body it is.
The problem is if he pulled out of the fight saying the truth that he had a 'broken toe' Klithsckos would think he is some cowardly oddball.
If not for that (injury) he may have won the fight, who knows? Also he can learn from his past mistakes.
Furthermore Vitali now is not as good as Wladmir then, so he has a chance against Vital.

hampo171 wrote:Yeah how could we forget his poorly toe. I'm a big David Haye and have been since his early fights but that was an awful excuse.

So ungratious was Haye in defeat he was determined to take some of the gloss of of Wlad's win and in-so-doing provide a reason (excuse) for his being outclassed. The silly excuse backfired badly and made him look an even bigger tool than he is.

He was being truthful.
He had a broken toe.

Wlad has never beaten Haye with no toes broken. It's a fact.

Boon, I don't see how you can put Vitali's performance vs Chisora even on par with Haye's.

Haye won every round then KO'd him before the halfway mark. The only time he looked shaken was when the ref called time on a round early and Haye dropped his hands and got nailed. He was fine by the beginning of the next round.

Vitali won a comfortable points decision, but the cards were very kind to him. Most of the rounds he won were due to him landing cleaner in the final minute of the round, while Chisora often bossed the first two. I can't remember many rounds in which Vitali bossed the round or outboxed Del Boy with authority. Chisora found a way to repeatedly nail Vitali's body with the right hand, and it was reddened by the end of the fight, Vitali didn't want to engage in the final round which he lost if I remember correctly.

Super D Boon wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Yeah how could we forget his poorly toe. I'm a big David Haye and have been since his early fights but that was an awful excuse.

So ungratious was Haye in defeat he was determined to take some of the gloss of of Wlad's win and in-so-doing provide a reason (excuse) for his being outclassed. The silly excuse backfired badly and made him look an even bigger tool than he is.

And after Chisora performed better than anybody expected against Vitali, Mr K claimed shoulder injury to take the gloss off it. That was OK though.

John

Haye is currently the second best heavyweight fighter in the world in my books

1.Wlad
2.Haye
3.Vitali
4.Price
5.Povetkin
5.Fury

It Must Be Love wrote:John

Haye is currently the second best heavyweight fighter in the world in my books

1.Wlad
2.Haye
3.Vitali
4.Price
5.Povetkin
5.Fury

I'd tentatively agree with you based on perceived ability, although I'd back Vitali at his best to stop him, he'd certainly give Haye more chances to turn things around than did Wladimir.

Obviously based on what he's achieved with that ability at heavyweight he's quite a way behind Vitali.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:John

Haye is currently the second best heavyweight fighter in the world in my books

1.Wlad
2.Haye
3.Vitali
4.Price
5.Povetkin
5.Fury

I'd tentatively agree with you based on perceived ability, although I'd back Vitali at his best to stop him, he'd certainly give Haye more chances to turn things around than did Wladimir.

Obviously based on what he's achieved with that ability at heavyweight he's quite a way behind Vitali.

Yes i'm talking about current status.

Overall of course I think Vitali and Wladmir are far above Haye, in this division anyway.

It Must Be Love wrote:John

Haye is currently the second best heavyweight fighter in the world in my books

1.Wlad
2.Haye
3.Vitali
4.Price
5.Povetkin
5.Fury

What a daft list . I suppose heavyweight world list comes from England and the few foreign heavies you've heard of. Haye is not even thrid best. Price at fourth is laughable considering he's fought a poor level of opposition. A win against Chisora since his humbling to Wlad can't make Haye that high. Vitali may not have performed well against Chisroa but still won comfortably. Haye was wobbled, Vitali wasn't. Foreman perfromed better against Frazier than Ali did yet Ali still beat Foreman so it matters little who did best against Chisora in the grand scheme of things.

Haye nevertheless has a punchers chance against Vitali given how old and slow Vitali is.

As for the injury, VK hurt his shoulder but was throwing arm punches in the fight. He did not make such a huge spectacle of it as Haye and his poor little toe!

It's irrelevant whether he made a spectacle out of it, the fact is he was injured. Simple.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Yeah how could we forget his poorly toe. I'm a big David Haye and have been since his early fights but that was an awful excuse.

So ungratious was Haye in defeat he was determined to take some of the gloss of of Wlad's win and in-so-doing provide a reason (excuse) for his being outclassed. The silly excuse backfired badly and made him look an even bigger tool than he is.

And after Chisora performed better than anybody expected against Vitali, Mr K claimed shoulder injury to take the gloss off it. That was OK though.

Ooft, Boon, do you need some Aloe Vera for that, 'cos you just got burned!

AlexHuckerby wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Yeah how could we forget his poorly toe. I'm a big David Haye and have been since his early fights but that was an awful excuse.

So ungratious was Haye in defeat he was determined to take some of the gloss of of Wlad's win and in-so-doing provide a reason (excuse) for his being outclassed. The silly excuse backfired badly and made him look an even bigger tool than he is.

And after Chisora performed better than anybody expected against Vitali, Mr K claimed shoulder injury to take the gloss off it. That was OK though.

Ooft, Boon, do you need some Aloe Vera for that, 'cos you just got burned!

I think the difference is that Haye made an excuse for losing and the excuse was a little toe that was broken 3 weeks before the fight.

Klitschko won the fight and said I got an injury during the fight which stopped me from throwing my jab like i wanted it to etc.

Each of them to take the gloss off their opponents performance.

Only one of them was undoubtedly true.

Perhaps JBW but I dont think that toe affected him too much because he was running away quite rapidly. I never thought I'd see cautious wlad actually moving forward in the first round

AlexHuckerby wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:

Super D Boon wrote:

hampo171 wrote:Yeah how could we forget his poorly toe. I'm a big David Haye and have been since his early fights but that was an awful excuse.

So ungratious was Haye in defeat he was determined to take some of the gloss of of Wlad's win and in-so-doing provide a reason (excuse) for his being outclassed. The silly excuse backfired badly and made him look an even bigger tool than he is.

And after Chisora performed better than anybody expected against Vitali, Mr K claimed shoulder injury to take the gloss off it. That was OK though.

Ooft, Boon, do you need some Aloe Vera for that, 'cos you just got burned!

That's funny because I feel no pain and see no mark...

A shoulder injury trumps a toe injury by 1000% by any sensible person's estimation. Lennox Lewis even said that you should be able to fight past an injured toe as the adrenaline will get you through the pain. Whatever way you slice it, an injured toe is a poor excuse for defeat and the legions of fans and slamming Haye as well as the media backlash is testament to that. A shoulder injury however is not a lame excuse at all as needing healthy shoulders is a fundamental requirement of boxing.

Sha, I get your point although Wlad does often take the front foot, just not in a particularly aggressive way. I don't think the toe injury is responsible for Haye losing. I think Wlad being the superior boxer and Haye lacking ambition has more to do with it, however....
moving onto to Boon's post:

You criticised Haye for bringing up an injury to take the gloss of his opponent's performance, but even though Vitali did the exact same thing that's OK? The severity of the injury is irrelevant, you slam one guy for taking the gloss off his opponent's performance by citing injury, but another guy doing the same thing is a fine and underrated heavyweight champion.

We don't even know that Vitali was injured, maybe it's just that he was getting on.

Haye vs Price/Fury can be really hyped in Britain as all three have had some level of exposure to the people.


Personally I think Vitali would demolish Haye. It wouldn't be pretty but it would be brutal, I'm thinking an Adamek or Arreola sustained beat down. It would be a 12 rounder I think as Vitali, these days anyway, doesn't pocess anything like Wladimirs power meaning Haye could take more risks instead of running around like a scared fairy as he did in the Wladimir fight.

Amritia stop embarrassing yourself.

The guys on here know their boxing; you clearly don't.

I expect you've only started following the sport in the last 12 months or so judging by your embarrassing blinkered comments.



emancipator

Is this a serious point of topic? Even if Haye's baby toe had any effect he still ran the whole fight and hardly made an attempt to win. He isn't a real heavyweight and would just eat jabs all night whether it was Wlad or Vitali, though i think Wlad would stop him if they fought again from the ease he won the first fight.

It's unbelievable guys who have probably watched years of "fighting" trying to justify it, i know they say ignorance is bliss but this is verging on stupidity. Guys fight with broken hands, shoulder problems, all sorts a broken toe is nothing and frankly Haye is just another contender. He could have fought Vitali 3 years ago but he thought his brother would be easier, now Vitali is struggling and very old he wants him. The guy is a fraud. Wish he'd just chocked on a kangaro testy and rid us of his stupidity.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Sha, I get your point although Wlad does often take the front foot, just not in a particularly aggressive way. I don't think the toe injury is responsible for Haye losing. I think Wlad being the superior boxer and Haye lacking ambition has more to do with it, however....
moving onto to Boon's post:

You criticised Haye for bringing up an injury to take the gloss of his opponent's performance, but even though Vitali did the exact same thing that's OK? The severity of the injury is irrelevant, you slam one guy for taking the gloss off his opponent's performance by citing injury, but another guy doing the same thing is a fine and underrated heavyweight champion.

We don't even know that Vitali was injured, maybe it's just that he was getting on.

Sorru I think they are completly different. Haye straight after his loss when he was still standing in the ring pulled out his toe and said I couldn't throw the punches I wanted nd the toe mde me perform badly.

Klitschko on the other hand refused to say whether he had been injured during the post fight conference and only confirmed he had been injured later on. He never once said that the injury stopped him performing to his best etc.

There is a difference using an injury as an excuse and just confirming that you have been injured.

Uhu, Haye certainly took the less dignified route, although it sometimes looks as if anything Haye does will be called undignified and anything the Klistchkos do is classy. For example Haye trashing Wlad was borish, but nobody found anything distasteful about Wlad's promises to "pizza face" Haye, which is more violent than anything I can remember Haye saying.

Personally I find it naïve to think, coming off the back of his toughest fight in ages against a relative novice, Vitali was letting us know he was injured for the sake of it.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Uhu, Haye certainly took the less dignified route, although it sometimes looks as if anything Haye does will be called undignified and anything the Klistchkos do is classy. For example Haye trashing Wlad was borish, but nobody found anything distasteful about Wlad's promises to "pizza face" Haye, which is more violent than anything I can remember Haye saying.

Personally I find it naïve to think, coming off the back of his toughest fight in ages against a relative novice, Vitali was letting us know he was injured for the sake of it.

Was not that tough a fight he won it 119-111.

It was still his toughest fight for rather a while and that scorecard is not accurate even if it is official.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:It was still his toughest fight for rather a while and that scorecard is not accurate even if it is official.

Chisora gave Helenius his toughest fight. Chisora gave Fury his toughest fight. Chisora gave klitschko his toughest fight in a long while. Chisora gave haye his toughest HW fight (not including his loss to klitschko).

Maybe Chisora is not as bad as some people make out.

victorgarco wrote:

John Bloody Wayne wrote:It was still his toughest fight for rather a while and that scorecard is not accurate even if it is official.

Chisora gave Helenius his toughest fight. Chisora gave Fury his toughest fight. Chisora gave klitschko his toughest fight in a long while. Chisora gave haye his toughest HW fight (not including his loss to klitschko).

Maybe Chisora is not as bad as some people make out.

There is another common theme linking all of those fights.