A scoring poll. Please participate!

Hey chaps.

So, a few of us have been debating who won a couple of fights involving Lucas Matthysse, and it made me think of how we, the boxing fan, score bouts.

Matthysse is interesting, because had he been given the W in the two fights in question (Judah and Alexander), then he would definitely be in a better place right now in his career. They would have been signature wins as it were, and he'd probably have a belt. So I am very interested what the forum thinks on this.

Did Mattysse win these fights? Poll it!

For me, yes he did but they are most certainly not the robberies some would have you believe and I would have no issue with Judah being given the nod.

I do agree with Ghosty that he is being seen as some sort of indestructible beast who chops down all in front of him.

Can you poll what you think too, mate? You've said you thought he won both? Not saying he is indestructable. But no one currently at 140 can beat him

He won them big time.

Sean, why should we overlook Marquez when he is a current world champion at light welterweight?

I thought he clearly beat Alexander by a couple of points at least.

Against Judah I had Lucas edging it but I guess it wasn't a robbery.

I don't think he's indestructible, I just think he's very good, and brings a lot to the table physically. That's his strength, great physical presence: Strong, powerful, tough, good engine. If Marquez counts as a light welter I'd pick him over Lucas. I'd favour Lucas over all the others. I wouldn't say he can't be beat, it's just unlikely.

I'll add that he sets a pace better than he did back when he fought those two.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Sean, why should we overlook Marquez when he is a current world champion at light welterweight?

It doesn't impact the poll, and anyway, he isn't campaigning there.He fought one fight for a WBO interim belt against that Eastern European nobody and then fought Pac at a higher weight. He isn't campaigning at 140. He fought there to bulk up in prep for a Welterweight fight. Not adding him to the mix just cos he fought there once, and certainly not because of some alphabelt he was just given because he is a name.

He beat Alexander by three points at least in my eyes. Genuinely can't see how in the world anyone can make a case for Alexander winning the fight outright, regardless of how small a margin they had him winning by. A draw would still have been highly, highly fortunate for Alexander, but the idea that he won it is absurd.

There are five rounds in that fight - the first, the fourth (which included the knockdown), the seventh, the eighth and the tenth - which, beyond any dispute and unequivocally, are Matthysse rounds. Alexander's own mother surely couldn't argue otherwise. Given that one of those rounds was a 10-8, then even if Alexander swept up the other five (which would be generous, to say the least) then he'd still be a little behind.

The sixth and the ninth were Alexander's, one hundred percent. I gave him two others, don't get me wrong, but they were scrappy ones, whereas Matthysse, in general, was winning rounds clearly.

Therefore, the best I can do for Alexander in that one would be to award him a loss by a margin of 96-93, and I can't really make it any closer than that. He was in his home town, near enough, and I have to say I do believe that the verdict handed out that night had the stench of home town cooking. A definite win for Matthysse, for me.

I have no inclination to revisit the Judah fight, but my memory of that fight is that I felt that Matthysse deserved the nod. However, it was a close run bout and a draw wouldn't have been unreasonable. I guess that if someone had Judah by a point, I wouldn't really grumble too much either, but I do think that Matthysse's claims to victory were better than Zab's. Not a shocker like the Alexander result, but I'd say that Matthysse can still feel a wee bit unlucky there.

I think if we're being sensible about it, Matthysse probably won both. If someone argued 1-0-1, you couldn't be too upset. If they argued 1-1, then they'd have stretched their argument against the man from Argentina to its absolute limit.

Arguing that he's anything worse than 1-1 against Alexander and Judah is, I have to say, verging on the ludicrous, at least in my eyes.

I had the Alexander fight 97-92 to Matthysse and as Chris said there were 5 rounds that were clearly Lucas' and were very easy to score, adding a knockdown then it's impossible for Alexander to win. It was 10 rounds too which was suppose to help Alexander and it was Lucas who was landing the heavy shots and could have forced a knockout. That was a clear robbery

Judah I scored it 114-113 first time and 115-112 second time both to Matthysse whereas it was harder to score but I felt that Judah was being flashy without doing anything and was going into a shell whenever Lucas hit him

Lucas has improved since then and as his profile improves he might finally get the big fights he deserves.

Bradley, Marquez and Broner will be the only guys who can beat him at 140 as he has to much for the others to handle

He beat Alexander by a mile and Judah comfortably.

more votes please!

agree with chris alexander was lossing at least 3 points (more like 4-5) but judah was a little closer. still thought he won but not guna cry about it. however, mattyesse looks a beast, lets be honest, granted soto, corley and olgueson arent the greatest opposition but there not bad either and olgueson was super tough and will probably go on to do well himself.

that said i think lucas has come on leaps and bounds, and with his chin i dont see him been beaten, i'd liken him to a more skilled, tougher, fitter garcia.

He beat both, the Judah fight was closer, but Mattysse won both clearly.

If they were 12 round fights, he probably would have stopped both of them.

eddyfightfan wrote:agree with chris alexander was lossing at least 3 points (more like 4-5) but judah was a little closer. still thought he won but not guna cry about it. however, mattyesse looks a beast, lets be honest, granted soto, corley and olgueson arent the greatest opposition but there not bad either and olgueson was super tough and will probably go on to do well himself.

that said i think lucas has come on leaps and bounds, and with his chin i dont see him been beaten, i'd liken him to a more skilled, tougher, fitter garcia.

Olgueson took a right ol pasting in that fight though, those types of beatings can have long term affects.

He may not have been particularly decisive in the earlier rounds of the Judah fight but neither was Judah. Matthysse was always landing with that right lead to the body and Judah's offence was largely limited to weak ineffective jabs. To have Judah winning would mean the judges gave Judah seven out of the first ten rounds - which just isn't a reasonable score at all.

Against Devon he won the fight narrowly on my scorecard. Devon allowed himself to be out-landed by his opponent. He was in complete control early on by simply getting off first and then moving, making Matthysse reset. He did none of that the second half of the fight, Matthysse roughed him up, and deserved the win.

He lost to Judah but beat a probably weight drained Alexander.

azania wrote:He lost to Judah but beat a probably weight drained Alexander.

The vast majority of people have acknowledged we're in 2013 now. So what year are you going to tell us it is?

Many here vote because they like Lucas imo. For me he beat Alexander without doubt. I had Judah a round ahead but granted the fight could have gone either way.

Doesn't alter the fact that he is vastly over-rated by virtue of those fights and beating a blown up SFW.

Az, whether or not he is 'overrated' has nothing to do with this article, or the question posed in it.

One second you're saying he's benefitting from the votes here because people like him, the next you're basically admitting that those voting that he should be, at the very, very least, 1-1 in those fights (1-0-1 fairer) are right to do so! A bit contradictory, I'm afraid.

You can carry on bemoaning the fact that, once a fighter produces a few good performances on the world stage, certain quarters will get carried away with him all you like, but as some other comments on here recently demonstrate, there's always a few ready to go too far the other way in order to chop the fighter in question down, too. Works both ways.

Some balance is required. He looked dominant against that SFW. Well who wouldn't given the size disparity. He 'beat' Alexander who in all likelihood was weight drained. There there is the legit loss to Zab. I've read excuses that on his day Zab can beat anyone. On his day, Zab lost all his big fights including the 5 round demolition by Khan. Styles make fights. Stand in front of Lucan and he will demolish you. Give him angles and he is found wanting. Therefore imo, on this board, people are going OTT on his abilities.

Khan would do him. So would Garcia, Peterson and deffo Bradley and JMM.

As it is these things are all opinion. I think you overrate Khan, as his weaknesses are glaring, but I also agree with what you've previously said about how he should be improved. Maybe Hunter can turn him into a guy who consistently puts in performances like the one against Judah. He had me seriously excited for his future at that point. However Judah is a stand off boxer, whereas Khan has been most troubled by guys who smother him.

The issue I'd have with backing Khan over Lucas so confidently is that, even if he can outbox him, (which I'm not conviced of; can see a lot of flurries bouncing off fore arms) Lucas only needs ten seconds to win.

Az, you say people are in Lucas' corner because he has an exciting style, but Khan's arguably the most exciting fighters in the world right now.

azania wrote:Some balance is required. He looked dominant against that SFW. Well who wouldn't given the size disparity. He 'beat' Alexander who in all likelihood was weight drained. There there is the legit loss to Zab. I've read excuses that on his day Zab can beat anyone. On his day, Zab lost all his big fights including the 5 round demolition by Khan. Styles make fights. Stand in front of Lucan and he will demolish you. Give him angles and he is found wanting. Therefore imo, on this board, people are going OTT on his abilities.

Khan would do him. So would Garcia, Peterson and deffo Bradley and JMM.

Your agenda is clear, your trying to make Khan a better boxer than Lucas, as you claim Judah beat Lucas yet Khan stopped Judah in 5. Then you mentioned 'styles make fights' how contradictory is that?. Style wise Khan would get seriously hurt against Lucas.

I'm not trying to. I'm saying point blank that Khan is the better boxer and if he boxes to his strengths he will beat Lucas. A straight punching boxer like Lucas is made for Khan. Its the happy hookers who give him issues.

Thought Matthyse won both fights. Alexander certainly does not deserve his lofty position. looks like Brook may require several KO s to beat him...Can't wait for Brook to expose him

Had Mathysse Winning 95-94, 114-113

DA could have been a draw, but LM should have won, Judah fight anything between 114-113 for Judah to 114-113 for LM is understandable for me

Neither were a robbery