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Kallis has a cool job.

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Post by Biltong Thu 03 Jan 2013, 3:45 pm

Since Sri Lanka in SA last December Kallis has played in 10 tests.

Due to the planned "management" of Kallis to extend his career to 2015, he obviously bowls a lot less.

Of the 19 innings SA bowled in this period, he only bowled in 15 of them.

In total he has bowled 128.2 overs during this period.

He took 13 wickets for 330 runs.

Strike rate 59.23 and his average 25.38

So even though his workload has been halved (he used to bowl about 10 overs per innings, every innings) his effectiveness as a bowler has not diminished.

In that time has has still managed to score 822 runs (16 innings) at an average of 54.8.

In those 16 innings, he scored 2 fifties and 4 centuries (highest 224)
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Post by king_carlos Thu 03 Jan 2013, 6:00 pm

Laugh The title of this made me laugh straight away. Not that I can argue with it though. He's one of the only true test class all rounders playing the game yet he's in a side with a strong enough bowling and batting that they can afford to manage his workload.

In fairness the guys already a legend of the game and if he keeps going for another few years playing like he is could even break Sachins test centuries mark. The current SA team could be one that's looked back on with a few legends at the current rate though - Smith already has 26 hundreds at close to 50 alongside his captaincy achievements and Steyn is on track to break many a record. Add to that the potential of Amla, ABDV and Philander it's a pretty potent side!

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Post by Biltong Thu 03 Jan 2013, 6:12 pm

Looking at Kallis I think he will fall short of Tendulkar's runs record though.

If he plays 3 more years he will likely play about 27 to 30 tests. At 80 runs per test he is unlikely to score more than another 2500 runs which would put him safely in second place.

If he scores a century every 4 matches he will end up on 52 which would also put him short of Tendullkar.

But I reckon he can end with 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets.
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Post by seanmichaels Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:06 pm

He also gets free hair transplants. He deleted me on twitter when I pointed out he was staving off the psshhhttttt.

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Post by ShahenshahG Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:32 pm

Give him to us biltong, theres a big Inzi shaped hole in the pakistan side and JK could fill it both in bulk and in terms of unselfish, intelligent innings. We'll give you Salman Butt and Salim Malik.

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Post by Biltong Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:34 pm

I was just explaining his cool job to you ShahenshahG, what makes you think he would move? Laugh
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Post by ShahenshahG Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:40 pm

The fast paced and exciting lifestyle in pakistan, (running away from al qaeda) the plentiful food (Wild cows - stolen from Al qaeda hence the running away) and the peaceful moments made all the more poignant by being sandwiched between bomb blasts and angry afghans beheading people at the slightest provocation.

We'll make a hero out of him.

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Post by msp83 Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:42 pm

Kallis takes a wicket just when the side need it the most. He still is capable of producing the unplayable ones from time to time, Michael Clarke falling on his face and losing his stumps as well, has to be the dismissal of 2012!.
Only 2 bowlers I have seen able to generate speeds up in the 140 KPH mark even at 37, the evergreen Walsh and Kallis.
No need to talk about Kallis the batsman.

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Post by Biltong Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:48 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:The fast paced and exciting lifestyle in pakistan, (running away from al qaeda) the plentiful food (Wild cows - stolen from Al qaeda hence the running away) and the peaceful moments made all the more poignant by being sandwiched between bomb blasts and angry afghans beheading people at the slightest provocation.

We'll make a hero out of him.
Well he can do with a bit of running, maybe we should send him there in our off season... oh sorry, there isn't much of an off season anymore.... but losing a few kilo's won't hurt him.. Laugh

Come to think of it, all that running didn't do much for Inzi now, did it? Whistle
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Post by msp83 Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:51 pm

Biltong, if you are planning on being generous, give us back our Guru Garry!.
In fact Kirsten' hand is there the way Kallis the bowler regenerated himself.
Since he took over, Kallis has been consistently encouraged to keep at it with the ball, but only in brief, attacking spells of 3-4 overs.

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Post by Biltong Thu 03 Jan 2013, 7:54 pm

Sorry mate, I am very happy to have Kirsten and Donald in our management team.

We have been waiting since our re admission to have ex international players manage our professional teams, and finally it is happening.

You can have Jennings, Jonty and the like to help out with the IPL. Very Happy
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Post by msp83 Thu 03 Jan 2013, 8:01 pm

We've had a few bowling coaches from SA but they haven't been able to make much of an impact.
With Garry working behind the seens and with a sharp captain like Graeme Smith and a quality team, they can very well manage Kallis workload and he should be able to go on for a while more.
It will be dificult to replace him or even plan about a Kallis less future, after all he's the most complete cricketer of the contemporary times, batting bowling and catching.

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Post by Biltong Thu 03 Jan 2013, 8:13 pm

They will never replace him.

Pommy Mbangwa and HD Ackerman were talking about that during lunch.

For now SA can have their 7 batsmen and 4 bowlers, but by the time Kallis retires they will have to go back to 5 bowlers.
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Post by seanmichaels Thu 03 Jan 2013, 9:16 pm

Biltong wrote:They will never replace him.

Pommy Mbangwa and HD Ackerman were talking about that during lunch.

For now SA can have their 7 batsmen and 4 bowlers, but by the time Kallis retires they will have to go back to 5 bowlers.

Had a chat about this earlier. They have a part time keeper acting as an all rounder and kallis. Big boots to fill albeit Ab will be around for a while yet

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 03 Jan 2013, 11:12 pm

They won't replace him, but SA are perfectly good enough to get by with a 4-man attack and I'm sure they will when Kallis eventually retires. When Duminy's back they will have a better 5th option than England even post-Kallis.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 03 Jan 2013, 11:23 pm

Pretty amazing as the theory was that he was shot as a bowling force a year or so back.


(By the way ... its 2013 now so it wasnt December last year)

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 03 Jan 2013, 11:25 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Pretty amazing as the theory was that he was shot as a bowling force a year or so back.


(By the way ... its 2013 now so it wasnt December last year)

I'd never seen any evidence of that really. Probably something the English media invented as a 'reason for optimism' ahead of the SA series.

Perhaps very recently they've managed his workload a bit more, but he's never shown signs of a significant decline.

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Post by msp83 Fri 04 Jan 2013, 7:15 am

Perhaps SA should give a chance to someone like Chris Morris at 7? Rudolph never really took his chance, and Elgar for me, doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence.
Duminy could be a decent option batting at 6 or 7, and he is handy with the ball as a 5th bowler. But Morris could be a propper bowler, and he could hit a long ball as well.

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Post by Biltong Fri 04 Jan 2013, 7:29 am

Well it seems we have three years to sort out a sitable solution for when Kallis retires.

For now our batting line up is sorted to include the following.

Pietersen
Smith
Amla
Kallis
de Villiers
Faf du Plessis
JP Duminy
Robin Peterson
Philander
Steyn
Morkel.

Obviously this is injury permitting.

Looking at that we bat down quite deep, has 3 specialist seem bowlers and both Peterson and Duminy who can spin to some degree of success. But this includes Kallis as the fourth seemer.

Chris Morris is the promise of things to come, Albie Morkel has been banded about as well, but I think he isn't good enough. The search is on.

Once Kallis retires and if AB is still keeping, it might be a good idea to move Faf to 4.
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Post by msp83 Fri 04 Jan 2013, 7:42 am

Biltong, agree with you, don't think Albie is test class with bat or ball.
His bowling is nothing special, and with the bat he's too inconsistent even in limited over formats.
Morris' first class with the ball isn't great, but from what I saw him in T-20s, he has the pace, and his record has improved over the last couple of seasons.
He certainly can hit it miles with the bat, and a first class batting average of 38 isn't bad at all. He has to attain more consistency with both bat and ball. I would say give him a chance with the test side while Kallis is around. Playing alongside the great man, and picking his brains as an all-rounder could only benifit the youngster.
JP Duminy, even though he showed some consistency at 7 in England, hasn't been able to convert many starts he got into big scores. Certainly better than Rudolph, and looks better than Elgar, but is not in the same league as that top 5. So he isn't a sureshot for me in the SA side, if Morris continues to do well, he should be given a chance.

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Post by Biltong Fri 04 Jan 2013, 7:55 am

msp, Morris has a strike rate of 47 and average of 25 in first class cricket?

He probably doesn't bowl as many overs as he could, but then he bats well as well.
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Post by msp83 Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:04 am

Seems like he was underbowled earlier in his career. But now he's among the strike bowlers for his first class side?
It was such a shame he got injured during that first T-20I. Hope he'll be given chances with the ODI side soon and would make the step up to test cricket.

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Post by Biltong Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:18 am

Yes, the Lions have used him a lot more this season (albeit only two games he played)

But he bowled 69 overs in those two matches and took 12 wickets at 17.

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Post by seanmichaels Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:27 am

If SA now have depth in their squad, why don't they play more test cricket? I think they have the best team in the world but I'd like to see how they'd manage with England's workload.

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Post by Biltong Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:30 am

MSP, in studio they were talking about number 7 btsman for SA which they reckon is not settled et, and Kepler Wessels came up with this guy.

Stiaan van Zyl

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Post by Biltong Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:31 am

seanmichaels wrote:If SA now have depth in their squad, why don't they play more test cricket? I think they have the best team in the world but I'd like to see how they'd manage with England's workload.

Have no idea mate.
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Post by seanmichaels Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:35 am

Biltong wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:If SA now have depth in their squad, why don't they play more test cricket? I think they have the best team in the world but I'd like to see how they'd manage with England's workload.

Have no idea mate.

I think all test nations should be playing the same amount of cricket. England have played 5 more tests than SA this year (15 , 10).

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Post by Biltong Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:54 am

seanmichaels wrote:
Biltong wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:If SA now have depth in their squad, why don't they play more test cricket? I think they have the best team in the world but I'd like to see how they'd manage with England's workload.

Have no idea mate.

I think all test nations should be playing the same amount of cricket. England have played 5 more tests than SA this year (15 , 10).
Well the biggest problem is that SA only gets to play 2 and 3 test series.

In 2008 SA played 15 tests
In 2009 SA played 6 tests
in 2010 SA played 11 tests
In 2011 SA played 5 tests
In 2012 SA played 10 tests

Oonly 2 series were 4 test series and both were against England.

In 2008 England played 12 tests
In 2009 England played 14 tests
In 2010 England played 14 tests
In 2011 England played 8 tests
In 2012 England played 15 tests

England regularly plays 4 and 5 test series, we almost never play more than 3 tests.

In this period SA played 20 test series, but England only played 18 test series, so it isn't that we play less series, we just don't play as many tests.
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Post by seanmichaels Fri 04 Jan 2013, 9:07 am

The point is more on the workload than anything else (series results are irrelevant to rankings anyway I believe).

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Post by king_carlos Fri 04 Jan 2013, 9:07 am

Biltong wrote:Looking at Kallis I think he will fall short of Tendulkar's runs record though.

If he plays 3 more years he will likely play about 27 to 30 tests. At 80 runs per test he is unlikely to score more than another 2500 runs which would put him safely in second place.

If he scores a century every 4 matches he will end up on 52 which would also put him short of Tendullkar.

But I reckon he can end with 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets.

Pretty sound logic there. 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets would be an unbelievable achievement. When you add in he's closing on 200 catches and those statistics could surpass Tendulkars achievements in Test I reckon.

The strange thing is that if you take Kallis' batting achievements he's got a huge case for being in a 'greatest' test side but as he's considered in the all-rounder category with Sobers he often struggles to get in. Hell I'd probably even go for Sobers even though I'm a big fan of Kallis. Test batting average of near enough 58, over 1000 first class wickets and capable of bowling fast and two types of spin. I think we can say the greatest batting all-rounder argument is a two man race! Beefy and Imran Khan come into the argument if you want a bowling all-rounder. Erm

1.Hutton 2.B Richards 3.Bradman 4.Pollock 5.Tendulkar 6.Sobers 7.Gilchrist 8.Marshall 9.Warne 10.Akram 11.McGrath - that's usually my go to greatest side (I get some flack for Barry Richards opening but christ he was good to watch!). Looking just at the statistics Kallis could challenge Pollock and Tendulkar in that middle order - I guess with greatest sides we are often drawn to more destructive/elegant players though.


Last edited by king_carlos on Fri 04 Jan 2013, 4:43 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Shelsey93 Fri 04 Jan 2013, 10:01 am

In the long run I'd expect Duminy to go back to 6 and du Plessis to 7 (which I think his game suits - he can't keep on averaging over 100 more than he does in FC).

Elgar has good stats, and I don't think he's a terrible pick. But he doesn't seem to really have the attributes of a number 7. It might have been better to pick Rudolph (in the interim, until Duminy returns) and bat him 6, keeping Faf at 7.

Some will say 7 is too low for a guy scoring so many runs. But he did the score the runs from that position. And Gilchrist batted at 7 through his career, and Prior bats at 7 now. I know they're 'keepers but the point still stands. With SA having AB 'keeping they need to justify that by having a No. 7 who is as good as or better than other No. 7s around the world.

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Post by Stella Fri 04 Jan 2013, 11:12 am

king_carlos wrote:
Biltong wrote:Looking at Kallis I think he will fall short of Tendulkar's runs record though.

If he plays 3 more years he will likely play about 27 to 30 tests. At 80 runs per test he is unlikely to score more than another 2500 runs which would put him safely in second place.

If he scores a century every 4 matches he will end up on 52 which would also put him short of Tendullkar.

But I reckon he can end with 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets.

Pretty sound logic there. 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets would be an unbelievable achievement. When you add in he's closing on 200 catches and those statistics could surpass Tendulkars achievements in Test I reckon.

The strange thing is that if you take Kallis' batting achievements he's got a huge case for being in a 'greatest' test side but as he's considered in the all-rounder category with Sobers he often struggles to get in. Hell I'd probably even go for Sobers even though I'm a big fan of Kallis. Test batting average of near enough 58, over 1000 first class wickets and capable of bowling fast and two types of spin. I think we can say the greatest all-rounder argument is a two man race!

1.Hammond 2.B Richards 3.Bradman 4.Pollock 5.Tendulkar 6.Sobers 7.Gilchrist 8.Marshall 9.Warne 10.Akram 11.McGrath - that's usually my go to greatest side (I get some flack for Barry Richards opening but christ he was good to watch!). Looking just at the statistics Kallis could challenge Pollock and Tendulkar in that middle order - I guess with greatest sides we are often drawn to more destructive/elegant players though.

Did Hammond ever open?
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Post by king_carlos Fri 04 Jan 2013, 11:28 am

Stella wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Biltong wrote:Looking at Kallis I think he will fall short of Tendulkar's runs record though.

If he plays 3 more years he will likely play about 27 to 30 tests. At 80 runs per test he is unlikely to score more than another 2500 runs which would put him safely in second place.

If he scores a century every 4 matches he will end up on 52 which would also put him short of Tendullkar.

But I reckon he can end with 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets.

Pretty sound logic there. 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets would be an unbelievable achievement. When you add in he's closing on 200 catches and those statistics could surpass Tendulkars achievements in Test I reckon.

The strange thing is that if you take Kallis' batting achievements he's got a huge case for being in a 'greatest' test side but as he's considered in the all-rounder category with Sobers he often struggles to get in. Hell I'd probably even go for Sobers even though I'm a big fan of Kallis. Test batting average of near enough 58, over 1000 first class wickets and capable of bowling fast and two types of spin. I think we can say the greatest all-rounder argument is a two man race!

1.Hammond 2.B Richards 3.Bradman 4.Pollock 5.Tendulkar 6.Sobers 7.Gilchrist 8.Marshall 9.Warne 10.Akram 11.McGrath - that's usually my go to greatest side (I get some flack for Barry Richards opening but christ he was good to watch!). Looking just at the statistics Kallis could challenge Pollock and Tendulkar in that middle order - I guess with greatest sides we are often drawn to more destructive/elegant players though.

Did Hammond ever open?

Sorry Stella that's meant to be Len Hutton! I was half asleep when I wrote the first post. I've corrected it now, cheers for the pointer.

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Post by Stella Fri 04 Jan 2013, 11:31 am

king_carlos wrote:
Stella wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Biltong wrote:Looking at Kallis I think he will fall short of Tendulkar's runs record though.

If he plays 3 more years he will likely play about 27 to 30 tests. At 80 runs per test he is unlikely to score more than another 2500 runs which would put him safely in second place.

If he scores a century every 4 matches he will end up on 52 which would also put him short of Tendullkar.

But I reckon he can end with 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets.

Pretty sound logic there. 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets would be an unbelievable achievement. When you add in he's closing on 200 catches and those statistics could surpass Tendulkars achievements in Test I reckon.

The strange thing is that if you take Kallis' batting achievements he's got a huge case for being in a 'greatest' test side but as he's considered in the all-rounder category with Sobers he often struggles to get in. Hell I'd probably even go for Sobers even though I'm a big fan of Kallis. Test batting average of near enough 58, over 1000 first class wickets and capable of bowling fast and two types of spin. I think we can say the greatest all-rounder argument is a two man race!

1.Hammond 2.B Richards 3.Bradman 4.Pollock 5.Tendulkar 6.Sobers 7.Gilchrist 8.Marshall 9.Warne 10.Akram 11.McGrath - that's usually my go to greatest side (I get some flack for Barry Richards opening but christ he was good to watch!). Looking just at the statistics Kallis could challenge Pollock and Tendulkar in that middle order - I guess with greatest sides we are often drawn to more destructive/elegant players though.

Did Hammond ever open?

Sorry Stella that's meant to be Len Hutton! I was half asleep when I wrote the first post. I've corrected it now, cheers for the pointer.

thumbsup

I wasn't being pedantic btw, just wasn't sure.
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Post by king_carlos Fri 04 Jan 2013, 2:47 pm

Stella wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Stella wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
Biltong wrote:Looking at Kallis I think he will fall short of Tendulkar's runs record though.

If he plays 3 more years he will likely play about 27 to 30 tests. At 80 runs per test he is unlikely to score more than another 2500 runs which would put him safely in second place.

If he scores a century every 4 matches he will end up on 52 which would also put him short of Tendullkar.

But I reckon he can end with 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets.

Pretty sound logic there. 15000 runs, 50 centuries and 300 wickets would be an unbelievable achievement. When you add in he's closing on 200 catches and those statistics could surpass Tendulkars achievements in Test I reckon.

The strange thing is that if you take Kallis' batting achievements he's got a huge case for being in a 'greatest' test side but as he's considered in the all-rounder category with Sobers he often struggles to get in. Hell I'd probably even go for Sobers even though I'm a big fan of Kallis. Test batting average of near enough 58, over 1000 first class wickets and capable of bowling fast and two types of spin. I think we can say the greatest all-rounder argument is a two man race!

1.Hammond 2.B Richards 3.Bradman 4.Pollock 5.Tendulkar 6.Sobers 7.Gilchrist 8.Marshall 9.Warne 10.Akram 11.McGrath - that's usually my go to greatest side (I get some flack for Barry Richards opening but christ he was good to watch!). Looking just at the statistics Kallis could challenge Pollock and Tendulkar in that middle order - I guess with greatest sides we are often drawn to more destructive/elegant players though.

Did Hammond ever open?

Sorry Stella that's meant to be Len Hutton! I was half asleep when I wrote the first post. I've corrected it now, cheers for the pointer.

thumbsup

I wasn't being pedantic btw, just wasn't sure.

I didn't think you were mate! If I'd seen that I would've flagged it up. Thinking about that side Lillee, Donald or Holding could easily replace Pigeon depending on how I'm feeling. Basically I'm now arguing with my own selection! steam

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Post by msp83 Fri 04 Jan 2013, 7:59 pm

If SA are going to continue with AB keeping, I'd rather have a good all-round material at 7 rather than someone like Styaan van Zil, who seems like a very parttime bowler and his FC stats at least, doesn't suggest anything massive. An average of 42 from 78 matches, and just 33 wickets from those matches.
Perhaps the people involved would have seen something extra in him. Biltong have you seen this guy in action?
Quinton de Kock seems to be highly rated by many in SA, and he has already done decent even at an age under 20. He can open and he can bat down the order. He can keep wickets as well, and many believe he can take over the responsibilities from AB some time in the future.
My knowledge of SA domestic cricket is limited, but I believe someone like Chris Morris or Quinton de Kock would be a better investment at 7 than an Elgar or a Rudolph or even JP Duminy is. Duminy should be around the squad though, Kallis won't be around for ever, and even Smith is into his 30s. If he applys himself, he could be a worthy addition to that top 6

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Post by ShankyCricket Fri 04 Jan 2013, 8:55 pm

Personally still rate Duminy higher than Faf.

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