The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

An ode to Dale Steyn

+20
Leff
Mad for Chelsea
VTR
dummy_half
Biltong
FerN
Fists of Fury
Mike Selig
MMaaxx
Pete C (Kiwireddevil)
Stella
seanmichaels
msp83
ShankyCricket
JDizzle
Shelsey93
Diggers
Gerry SA
Duty281
kingraf
24 posters

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by kingraf Sun 06 Jan 2013, 8:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

20 December 2004- England are chasing a relatively low total vs RSA. Steyn to Michael Vaughan. What followed was an absolute pearler of a delivery. And just like that my love of Dale Steyn was ignited.

From the nadir of his first spell in County, to the heights of Nagpur 2010, I have watched him. He currently sits on 304 sticks, almost 1000 deliveries faster to the 300 mark than any other bowler. The plaudits have followed him, except for a few Englishmen who somehow convinced themselves that J. Anderson is a superior bowler. A few months ago, Allan Donald claimed he could be the greatest bowler in history. Considering his stats in an era with flat pitches, powerful bats and shorter boundaries, he has to be up there.

Picking my favourite Dale Steyn spell is a difficult task, but I narrowed it down to three.

1) New Years test, Newlands 2010. day 5. With SA desperately needing a wicket, Graeme Smith passed the new ball to Steyn, what followed almost defied belief. Steyn didn't take a wicket, but he gave an exhibition in fast bowling. Outside, inside, he swung it & Paul Collingwood literally wasn't good enough to edge it. The standing ovation at the end of the spell was evidence that we had just seen something special.

2) New years Newlands 2011. This time the advesary was Sachin Tendulkar. Again, Steyn took no wickets but considering that this was SRT's last test hundred, it sticks out as one of crickets all time duels between the two greatest current practitioners of their respective arts.

The single greatest perfomance by Dale Steyn though, was his effort at Nagpur. Consider the surroundings- an absolute road of a pitch (Amla score 259), an Indian side which was #1 in the world at home consisting of a whos who. Tendulkar. Dravid. Laxman. That was surely one of the all time efforts. Reverse swing, conventional swing, seam and searing pace, all the ingredients which make fast bowling the art it is.

He may not be the greatest ever, but as world #1 since 2009, he could probably make it into any team in cricket history. Consider this final fact. After 60 tests, Steyn had taken 50 sticks more than Michael Holding at a better s/r
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16602
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 29
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down


An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Stella Tue 08 Jan 2013, 9:11 am

great = very good?

How does that work?
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Duty281 Tue 08 Jan 2013, 9:12 am

Stella wrote:great = very good?

How does that work?

I looked it up in the dictionary.

Duty281

Posts : 33609
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 28
Location : I wouldn’t want to be faster or greener than now if you were with me; O you were the best of all my days

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Biltong Tue 08 Jan 2013, 10:24 am

How I see it, and I may be totally wrong.

World class means in a player's era he will or would have made most international teams in his position.

(Great) or being (a great), or an (all time great) is a matter of degrees of comparison.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by kingraf Tue 08 Jan 2013, 10:58 am

I see it the exact same way Biltong. Duty may be correct with the "real-world" definition, but in sport very few players are annointed as great, whereas world class is for me defined as being able to compete well at a competent level on a global scale... e.g Bell, Siddle, Gambhir etc. While great refers to an exclusive group of players i.e Steyn, Kallis, SRT.
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16602
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 29
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by seanmichaels Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:02 am

And Alistair Cook.

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by kingraf Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:15 am

Alaistair may well be on his way to becoming a great. Without the stats on me, he could probably be given a top 15 openers spot, along with Smith, the two best openers currently operating.

see Duty, I dont just hate English cricketers...
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16602
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 29
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Diggers Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:33 am

You'd have to say Clarke may well be the next guy stepping up to greatness. He has certainly just had a year of true greatness and is proving to be a very good captain to boot.

Diggers

Posts : 8681
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by seanmichaels Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:34 am

Smith is such a poor technician. Shining example of someone who makes the most of his ability.

Always been a fan of style over run accumulation. Used to love watching Damien Martyn bat. Poetry in motion.

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by kingraf Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:46 am

Maybe, but I dont understand how doing that, making the most out of the little you have is somehow a bad thing.

Clarke does seem to be heading in that direction. With both the bat and the captaincy. a few guys seem to have woken up in recent years to make the future look very bright for test cricket.

Marlon Samuels
Michael Clarke
Jimmy Anderson
Ian Bell
Vernon Philander (many people forget that he made his ODI debut five years ago as pretty average batting all-rounder).
SRT made a really nice comeback with Kirsten.
Aamir, whenever he returns will hopefully return undiminished.


Speaking of match-fixers. The fact that Asif is gone has really hurt me. Probably one of very few who genuinely coulda made the jump to Great. Had to sell his soul for a quick hundred thousand buck.
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16602
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 29
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by seanmichaels Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:50 am

Not a criticism of smith, just don't particularly enjoy his style of play. He's just a fat oke who clips it off his legs.

Interesting that KP hasn't been mentioned in terms of greatness.

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Fists of Fury Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:52 am

Already a great, mate.

An English great on the verge of world great, should he continue operating at current levels.

Fists of Fury
Admin
Admin

Posts : 11721
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 37
Location : Birmingham, England

http://bloxhamcricket.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Stella Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:54 am

KP is imo a great player. A little inconsistent but a man who can play an innings that most cannot.
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by kingraf Tue 08 Jan 2013, 11:56 am

To be fair I didnt mention KP because he has always been pretty solid. The guys I mentioned are guys who made a comeback of sort. Reintegration doesnt reflect on the stats thus he doesnt apply.

But KP is probably going to become a great player. Maybe the greatest Englishman in history, ignoring Hammond and Hobbs.
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16602
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 29
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by alfie Tue 08 Jan 2013, 12:02 pm

This one runs and runs doesn't it ?

Not sure why any thread in praise of Steyn needs to include digs at Jimmy...guess the fact that they are clearly the two best pace bowlers around tends to draw comparisons , but still : I have never found it necessary to denigrate say , Ponting , in order to praise Tendulkar ...oh I know , not an exact match but you know what I mean...

In fact there are two different comparisons being made here , are there not ? One is the career record , which clearly says Steyn is on another level , and I don't think even the most rabid England fan would contest that ; and the other is between the two as bowlers right now , where I do not believe there is that much difference.
As others have said , they each have different strengths , and either might outshine the other in certain conditions on a given day. Not much to gained from looking at particular matches in which one of them performed better as "proof" of current superiority , as I'm sure anyone who really trawls through recent Test records can find one or other to make his point : anyone who just watches the men bowl and forgets about accumulated statistics is unlikely to say " Ah yes , it is clear that one of these chaps must average 23 and the other one 30 ". It is pretty obvious they are both very good. Now. Today.

So in fact I agree with everyone Smile Sort of. Just don't see why the discussion has to degenerate into silly bickering.

Steyn ...outstanding career record . HoF standard. Rightly has a thread dedicated to praise his excellence.
Anderson...wonky first few years , Now a very fine bowler. But has a lot to do to get near that sort of accolade.

But right now they'd make a very good partnership. And I would be quite happy with either in my team.

alfie

Posts : 21196
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Shelsey93 Tue 08 Jan 2013, 12:12 pm

alfie wrote:This one runs and runs doesn't it ?

Not sure why any thread in praise of Steyn needs to include digs at Jimmy...guess the fact that they are clearly the two best pace bowlers around tends to draw comparisons , but still : I have never found it necessary to denigrate say , Ponting , in order to praise Tendulkar ...oh I know , not an exact match but you know what I mean...

In fact there are two different comparisons being made here , are there not ? One is the career record , which clearly says Steyn is on another level , and I don't think even the most rabid England fan would contest that ; and the other is between the two as bowlers right now , where I do not believe there is that much difference.
As others have said , they each have different strengths , and either might outshine the other in certain conditions on a given day. Not much to gained from looking at particular matches in which one of them performed better as "proof" of current superiority , as I'm sure anyone who really trawls through recent Test records can find one or other to make his point : anyone who just watches the men bowl and forgets about accumulated statistics is unlikely to say " Ah yes , it is clear that one of these chaps must average 23 and the other one 30 ". It is pretty obvious they are both very good. Now. Today.

So in fact I agree with everyone Smile Sort of. Just don't see why the discussion has to degenerate into silly bickering.

Steyn ...outstanding career record . HoF standard. Rightly has a thread dedicated to praise his excellence.
Anderson...wonky first few years , Now a very fine bowler. But has a lot to do to get near that sort of accolade.

But right now they'd make a very good partnership. And I would be quite happy with either in my team.

thumbsup Hopefully that succinct summary can settle the debate

Shelsey93

Posts : 3134
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Stella Tue 08 Jan 2013, 12:16 pm

But who's the better batsman?
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Biltong Tue 08 Jan 2013, 12:55 pm

Stella wrote:But who's the better batsman?
Laugh

erm. Steyn? He has a fifty.

Who has the best tattoo?
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Stella Tue 08 Jan 2013, 12:58 pm

Jimmy is the better fielder.
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Biltong Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:04 pm

Jonty is better. Whistle
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by ShahenshahG Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:19 pm

o o o what about dale steyn
for whom anderson is a stale bane
charges in through wind or rain
and upon the batsman leaves a stain
and before bud steyn gets abused
the stain was blood (for he was never confused)


My ode to Steyn

ShahenshahG

Posts : 15725
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 38
Location : The happiest man a morning ever sees

http://www.wwwdotcom.com

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by seanmichaels Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:36 pm

Nowadays everybody wanna talk (about Jimmy) like they got something to say
But nothing comes out when they move their lips
Just a bunch of gibberish (about swing)
And mot******kers act like they forgot about Steyn

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by ShahenshahG Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:44 pm

clap clap Ale

ShahenshahG

Posts : 15725
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 38
Location : The happiest man a morning ever sees

http://www.wwwdotcom.com

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Biltong Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:45 pm

There is aplenty sour remarks on here
It is the mods they should fear
Tis bickering and sour posts are sad
neither of these bowlers are bad.

Not bad I hear you say?
They are the best that play
One is a true blood englishman
the other a beer drinking south african

They both have their strengths
They both have weaknesses
They both have some ruthlessness
All depending whether they bowl a good length.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by ShahenshahG Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:47 pm

Biltong wrote:There is aplenty sour remarks on here
It is the mods they should fear
Tis bickering and sour posts are sad
neither of these bowlers are bad.

Not bad I hear you say?
They are the best that play
One is a true blood englishman
the other a beer drinking south african

They both have their strengths
They both have weaknesses
They both have some ruthlessness
All depending whether they bowl a good length.

Fence sitter Laugh

ShahenshahG

Posts : 15725
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 38
Location : The happiest man a morning ever sees

http://www.wwwdotcom.com

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by guildfordbat Tue 08 Jan 2013, 10:24 pm

Leff wrote:Tier 1: Marshall, Ambrose, Holding, McGrath, Lillee, Trueman

Tier 2: Lindwall, A Davidson, K Miller, A Roberts, Wes Hall, Garner, Walsh, Bishop, Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, A Donald, Steyn, S Pollack, R Hadlee

Tier 3: Gillespie, Thompson, McDermott, Brett Lee, McKenzie, Kapil Dev, Vaas, Willis, Snow, Bedser, Bailey, J Anderson

Tier 4: Botham, Flintoff, Hoggard, Gough, Harmison, Z Khan, S Akhtar

IMHO, Steyn is in Tier 2 at the moment with the possibility of getting into Tier 1 with more achievements.

Donald and Akram could very well be in Tier 1, not much different from Lillee and Trueman, but perhaps a notch below Marshall, Ambrose and Holding.

P.S: Not included Barnes, Larwood, P Pollock, M Proctor, etc, for not having played many test matches.
Leff - very interesting tier ratings. Little I disagree with. Surprised to see Bailey's name at all but upon looking at his stats that might be due to earlier ignorance on my part.

Particularly pleased to see Wes Hall up there. Too often his excellent bowling and ground breaking role are overlooked in lists of this sort.

guildfordbat

Posts : 16761
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Shelsey93 Tue 08 Jan 2013, 10:44 pm

I wouldn't dispute much in those tier rankings either. Perhaps I'd drop Ambrose to Tier II and put Imran or Waqar in Tier I but really not much to dispute.

Of course, its not an exhaustive list but that's not really what its setting out to do. Good work thumbsup

Shelsey93

Posts : 3134
Join date : 2011-12-14
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Leff Sat 02 Feb 2013, 1:09 pm

What Steyn did today reminds me of Ambrose at Perth. Give him 2 more years and when he retires we will remember him as the Marshall of this generation.

Leff

Posts : 1169
Join date : 2011-09-11
Location : USA

Back to top Go down

An ode to Dale Steyn - Page 3 Empty Re: An ode to Dale Steyn

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum