The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

+13
JDizzle
guildfordbat
Galted
kwinigolfer
king_carlos
Hoggy_Bear
gboycottnut
msp83
dummy_half
kingraf
Stella
seanmichaels
Biltong
17 posters

Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:56 am

I have decided to start a series on South Africa’s best cricketers. From when we bowled our first ball in international cricket to present.

South Africa has a unique situation whereby many of our players never got the opportunity to really fulfill their potential status as greats of the game due to a 22 year period of sporting isolation.

So I thought it would be good to have a look at those that have had extended careers, and compare them to those who could, or might still have extensive international careers.

The qualifying criteria is 3000 ball bowled, 500 overs in international cricket. I reckon by 3000 balls you have established your potential and if you haven’t made it in international cricket by then, chances are you are never going to make it.

I have removed all South African bowlers with an average of above 30, as any chance of them being South Africa’s greatest bowlers or potential bowlers are moot.

So there are two groups of bowlers, those who have bowled more than 3000 balls and those who have bowled less than 3000 balls.

I also removed all the bowlers who took less than 25 wickets as the sample data is not sufficient to prove either way.

At the end of the day two areas are the deciding factors in my presentation. Strike rate and average cost per wicket. Ultimately those two factors count above all, economy rate could be considered, but strike bowlers stand the risk of giving away runs a tad quicker than a bowler who “bores” players by being more containing seam bowlers.


What I have done was to use the bowler with the lowest strike rate and lowest average per wicket as my starting point. They get a value of 100% for the best figure and then in relation to that the rest get their percentage calculated. In other words if one bowler has a strike rate of 40 and another 60, it would mean the latter gets a rating of 150%.

South Africa has 12 bowlers who have bowled more than 3000 balls and averages less than 30.

Bowlers with more than 3000 balls bowled.

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Greate10

From this table it is quite clear that Dale Steyn and Alan Donald have been South Africa’s best bowlers by quite some margin. Mainly due to their superior strike rates.

What is important to note: Shaun Pollock, Trevor Goddard and Hansie Cronje would all fall under the category of allrounders, with Pollock most likely seen as the only bowling allrounder on the list.

Bowlers with less than 3000 balls bowled.

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Possib10

Mike Proctor.
Considering Mike Proctor played all seven of his tests against Australia, home and away, would suggest that Proctor could have been a great, as a bowling all rounder he completed 401 first class matches, taking 1417 wickets at an average of 19.53 and a strike rate of 46.1. He was no mug with the bat either, scoring 21936 runs at an average of 36.01

Would/Could have been a great.

Vernon Philander.
Philander had one of the fastest starts in test cricket history, getting to fifty test wickets in 7 test matches, however there are still question marks surrounding him. Philander is rather injury prone, in his last two test series he has broken down with injury, nothing serious, which might indicate fitness could be the cause of his injuries. There is promise, but can he continue his form, and how will injury influence his career?

Goofy Lawrence.
Unfortunately Goofy only ever played international cricket for 5 tests, all against New Zealand, according to history he had one great season, but was discarded by selectors when the next series came along. Not a contender.

Tip Snooke
Snooke may have played 26 test for Souh Arfrica, but the reality is even though his figures warrants inspection, he was more a parttime bowler than front line bowler. Not in contention.

Brett Schultz.
A career ended by injury, this left arm fast bowler had severe pace, but ultimately fitness and countless operations to his knees ended his career prematurely. A definite could have been great.

Alf Hall.
Having only played 7 test, all against England, Hall had a first class career that spanned 11 years, strangely he only played 46 first class matches. His first class average of 19.23 and a strike rate of 47.7 made him a good cricketer, unfortunately there isn’t much information available on him.

Nantie Hayward.
As a redheaded fast bowler struggling with accuracy, Nantie held the promise to replace Alan Donald, but unfortunately his inability to be accurate was his ultimate downfall. Not a contender.

John Watkins.
Seen as a genuine allrounder, an aggressive batsman and a decent medium pace bowler. Not a contender here.

So in summary, the only bowlers who could be or could have been contenders in the main list of bowling stars for South Africa there are only 2 bowlers who could have been high on that list, with Philander the only current bowler who has a chance of making the list.

Ultimately he will have to work on his fitness, he promises to become a bowling allrounder with solid technique and a decent eye for batting.

But for now, Steyn and Donald lead the list of greatest South African fast bowlers.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by seanmichaels Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:11 am

Not sure I agree here. Personally from the stats I don't think you can seperate Donald, Pollock and Steyn at this current time. Ultimately Steyn will go on to rank higher than both but right now Pollock has a bucket full more wickets and a hell of a lot more economical overs than Steyn and Donald. If it takes Pollock a couple more overs to take a wicket, you're not gonna be that bothered when he's operating at an economy rate in the low 2's

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:16 am

That's a valid point. Pollock's economy rate was exceptional in the modern era. His ODI economy was equally phenominal.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Stella Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:19 am

I would rate both Steyn and Donald above Pollock.

It's easier to control than it is to get people out. Not knocking Pollock but the other two are two of the best quickies of the last 20 years.
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by seanmichaels Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:44 am

Stella wrote:I would rate both Steyn and Donald above Pollock.

It's easier to control than it is to get people out. Not knocking Pollock but the other two are two of the best quickies of the last 20 years.

If Steyn goes on to take another 100+ wickets fair enough but as it stands he's way short of Pollock. Given the amount of test cricket SA play Steyn will need another 3 years at least to surpass Pollock. That can be a long time for someone who bowls at Steyn's pace and who is moving in to his 30's. He's been reasonably lucky to date with injuries.

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by seanmichaels Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:45 am

And Pollock also had gas in abundance in his early days. Through injury and age he became a very different but equally effective bowler. I just wish his balls had of dropped at some stage before retiring.

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Stella Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:52 am

Pollock would have been a great support act to those two, with Ntini as second change.
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by seanmichaels Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:54 am

Stella wrote:Pollock would have been a great support act to those two, with Ntini as second change.

I think Pollock would have had the new ball.

seanmichaels
seanmichaels
seanmichaels

Posts : 13369
Join date : 2012-05-25
Location : Virgin

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by kingraf Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:55 am

Not sure you can make a case for a strike bowlers Eco rate being the the swing vote- all things being equal, e.g similar SR, then maybe. But Id rather have a team 63/3 after 15 then 37/1. Thus Steyn>Pollock. Thi is said with no disrespect, as I like Pollock & on each occassion I have met he has been gracious
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16602
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 29
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Stella Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:59 am

seanmichaels wrote:
Stella wrote:Pollock would have been a great support act to those two, with Ntini as second change.

I think Pollock would have had the new ball.

Not if I was skipper, although Steyn is excellent with the old ball.
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by kingraf Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:02 am

Mhmm- Pollock, Steyn, Ntini, Donald. Would have been a great quartet, but its tough to pick new ball bowlers. Remember, in picking the new pair, they have to complement each other. Steyn & Donald at the Wanderers or Centurion, could do some damage. Pollock at Newlands. You get me?
kingraf
kingraf
raf
raf

Posts : 16602
Join date : 2012-06-06
Age : 29
Location : To you I am there. To me I am here.... is it possible that I'm everywhere?

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:07 am

I agree about strike rate. If you want to win test matches it is important to strike, if you want to draw test matches, you could average the same a sa strike bowler with a superior strike rate, but due to your lower strike rate it will take longer to bowl out the oppposition.

Imagine you have 80 overs to bowl out the opposition, that is 480 balls. So if your bowlers have a combined strike rate of less than 48 you can still win the game, if they have a combined strike rate of more then 50, chances are reduced dramatically.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Stella Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:10 am

Add to that, Pollock use to add pressure to batsmen, which in turn helped Donald and Ntini.

I rate Ntini very highly actually. Watched him on the 2003 tour completely bamboozle Trescothick.
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by dummy_half Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:14 am

kingraf wrote:Mhmm- Pollock, Steyn, Ntini, Donald. Would have been a great quartet, but its tough to pick new ball bowlers. Remember, in picking the new pair, they have to complement each other. Steyn & Donald at the Wanderers or Centurion, could do some damage. Pollock at Newlands. You get me?

Good thing they haven't had a more than adequate spin bowler since reintroduction to back that lot up. Going from the stats, Ntini was a very good Test bowler (avg significantly less than 30) while the other three operate(d) at the level consistent with our HoF members, so well into the realm of the Greats.

As for how yuo would balance the attack, it would depend on conditions - playing at (say) Trent Bridge you'd have Pollock opening into the wind and rotate Donald and Steyn in short bursts from the other end, whereas at the Waca you might even open with Donald and Ntini.

dummy_half

Posts : 6415
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 52
Location : East Hertfordshire

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by msp83 Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:56 am

I would certainly rate Makhaya Ntini among the very best South African fast bowlers. He didn't have Steyn's swing or Pollock's accuracy, but he had pace, and had good control all be it not at the level of Pollock, and and a bowler with a huge huge heart!. After Donald left and before Steyn emerged, Ntini was the go to man for SA captains, particularly on tracks on the flatter side. And his average and strike rates aren't bad at all.


Last edited by msp83 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total

msp83

Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Stella Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:15 am

No Kallis on the list?
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:36 am

Stella wrote:No Kallis on the list?
Bowling average over 30 mate.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:38 am

msp83 wrote:I would certainly rate Makhaya Ntini among the very best South African fast bowlers. He didn't have Steyn's swing or Pollock's accuracy, but he had pace, and had good control all be it not at the level of Pollock, and and a bowler with a huge huge heart!. After Donald left and before Steyn emerged, Ntini was the go to man for SA captains, particularly on tracks on the flatter side. And his average and strike rates aren't bad at all.
He was certainly the fittest player in the Protea squad.

His weakness though, was he didn't have any pace variation and struggled to adapt his length in different conditions (pitches).

But regardless of his weaknesses, he was a very effective bowler, I loved to watch him bat.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Stella Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:39 am

Biltong wrote:
Stella wrote:No Kallis on the list?
Bowling average over 30 mate.

Aah, yes. And a strike rate of 68.
Stella
Stella

Posts : 6671
Join date : 2011-08-01

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by gboycottnut Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:26 pm

No Aubrey Faulkner? No Neil Adcock? No Garth Le Roux? No Peter Pollock either?

gboycottnut

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Hoggy_Bear Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:46 pm

gboycottnut wrote:No Aubrey Faulkner?

Or Hugh Tayfield.
Is this just a list of seam bowlers?

Hoggy_Bear

Posts : 2202
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 58
Location : The Fields of Athenry

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:07 pm

Yes.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:09 pm

gboycottnut wrote:No Aubrey Faulkner? No Neil Adcock? No Garth Le Roux? No Peter Pollock either?
Peter Pollock is on the list, Garth le roux didn't play, Faulkner is an allrounder, I had neil adcock, can't remember why he didn't make it
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Hoggy_Bear Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:28 pm

Biltong wrote:Yes.

Fair enough thumbsup

Hoggy_Bear

Posts : 2202
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 58
Location : The Fields of Athenry

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by king_carlos Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:39 pm

Alan Donald for me. The guy was exceptional - very accurate, very fast, lethal bouncer, good yorker. What more can you want from a bowler.

Pollock and Steyn were also very good from guys I've had the pleasure of witnessing. Though he can't be considered due to the 3000 balls criteria Mike Procter was another guy who could've been exceptional in test cricket but sadly didn't get the chance. 1400 first class wickets @ 19 apiece and lightning quick, not bad for a guy who bowled of the wrong foot!

king_carlos

Posts : 12492
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by kwinigolfer Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:08 pm

Futile for me to compare bowlers I never saw, but Proctor was one of the top two or three fiercest competitors in cricket - rather imagine he could have enjoyed a spectacular Test career if happier circumstances had prevailed. Fabulous cricketer.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Galted Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:22 pm

I know he didn't play tests & so doesn't qualify but any discussion on great SA bowlers has to include mention of Vince van der Bijl so here goes...

Vince van der Bijl

Galted
Galted
Galted

Posts : 15865
Join date : 2011-10-31
Location : not the wi-fi password

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by guildfordbat Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:57 pm

I strongly back the comments of King and Kwini in support of Procter. Fast, fierce and straight. A lot of his wickets seemed to be lbws. I remember in the early '70s the BBC News - when it understood matters of real importance! - contained a report of Procter getting a hat trick of lbws in a Sunday League match.

guildfordbat

Posts : 16761
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by king_carlos Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:51 pm

A lovely bit of footage of Proctor bowling vs Hampshire here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9WKSiG4qdA

(Sorry to bang on about someone who doesn't fit the selection criteria for the thread Biltong. I was a big fan of Proctor though, not a pretty action but very effective!)

king_carlos

Posts : 12492
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by JDizzle Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:10 pm

I've seen barely anything of Proctor, but did he always bowl right arm round? If this was something that he always did, anyone any ideas why?!

JDizzle

Posts : 6888
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by guildfordbat Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:20 pm

JD - I seem to remember Procter varying his bowling between over and round the wicket in an attempt to never let the batsman settle.

King - tremendous clip.

guildfordbat

Posts : 16761
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Corporalhumblebucket Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:05 pm

Procter would probably have been one of the great all time all rounders. There was something about his physique - projected a sense of immense strength /swagger / class.

Corporalhumblebucket

Posts : 7413
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Day's march from Surrey

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by king_carlos Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:42 pm

JD - What I saw of him in the highlights tapes I watched as a kid he used to vary the angle a fair bit and very seamlessly. It was one advantage of his wrong foot action I always thought, that it allowed him to come around the wicket without his follow through dragging him straight down the pitch - not that umpires cared as much about that back then!

Corporal - Completely agree he'd could've been one of the best. His batting may not have been very pretty, brutal is the word that comes to mind but he was very effective as his record represents. 48 hundreds and near 22,000 runs @ 36 would get you into most county sides as a batsmen.

king_carlos

Posts : 12492
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by JDizzle Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:16 am

Many thanks Guildford and Carlos, from a brief search of the internet it seems that he was a rare breed who actually used the round the wicket angle as an attacking weapon rather than a containing/last resort method. No doubt his unique action had something to do with that. He seemed to be bowling and a rapid pace and with that action it must take some effort! Being the classic South African massive unit must help!

JDizzle

Posts : 6888
Join date : 2011-03-11

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Gerry SA Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:00 am

Whilst Makhaya Ntini might not have the best average, 28-29, he was all ways one of my favourite Proteas.

A lionhearted fast bowler, needs to be remembered he was 145-149kph earlier in his career. All ways willing to do the donkey work.

I'll forever remember his 10 wicket match haul at Lords, as of now he's still he only Protea to ever do this.

And probably the most importantly he was the first non white icon for the Proteas, and for that he's forever priceless.

Gerry SA

Posts : 2428
Join date : 2012-08-20
Location : RIP PHILLIP HUGHES 63 NOT OUT FOREVER

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by gboycottnut Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:50 am

guildfordbat wrote:JD - I seem to remember Procter varying his bowling between over and round the wicket in an attempt to never let the batsman settle.

King - tremendous clip.

Steve Jefferies the left-arm pace bowler is another player who could be considered a great pace/swing bowler. There is excellent footage on Youtube of him causing the Rebel Australian batsmen all sorts of problems with his swing bowling.

gboycottnut

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by kwinigolfer Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:46 pm

king_carlos,
Great clip, Thanks!
'Course, that Richards LBW looked very dodgy to me!
And to describe Rice as being among the cream of the Hampshire order was a bit of a reach, Richie!!

Anyone who never saw Proctor would get a real sense of the bowler and the man from that vignette thumbsup Ale

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by guildfordbat Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:19 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
'Course, that Richards LBW looked very dodgy to me!
Kwini - Yep, and the wind blew Greenidge's middle stump out of the ground! Very Happy

guildfordbat

Posts : 16761
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by gboycottnut Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:26 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:king_carlos,
Great clip, Thanks!
'Course, that Richards LBW looked very dodgy to me!
And to describe Rice as being among the cream of the Hampshire order was a bit of a reach, Richie!!

Anyone who never saw Proctor would get a real sense of the bowler and the man from that vignette thumbsup Ale

That was Jerry Rice, not Clive Rice!

gboycottnut

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by guildfordbat Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:49 pm

Boycs - John Rice, I believe. A reasonable county all rounder but nowhere near the class of his namesake Clive.

guildfordbat

Posts : 16761
Join date : 2011-04-07

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by kwinigolfer Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:24 pm

Fried Rice by the looks of that attempt to play a shot . . . . . . . . .

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by gboycottnut Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:37 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Boycs - John Rice, I believe. A reasonable county all rounder but nowhere near the class of his namesake Clive.

Hampshire also had another excellent all-rounder by the name of Trevor Jesty who I do believe played some ODI matches for England in the early 1980's but sadly for him no tests due to England having a great all-rounder at that time by the name of Ian Botham.

gboycottnut

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by kwinigolfer Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:43 pm

boycs,
Trev was one of Proctor's victims in the clip - not his best effort!
Agree that Jesty was a top county player. Not sure that even his fiercest advocates (like me) would honestly believe that he was Test class; not far off but not a strong enough bowler or bat. Loved watching him, very busy player.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:00 pm

gboycottnut wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:king_carlos,
Great clip, Thanks!
'Course, that Richards LBW looked very dodgy to me!
And to describe Rice as being among the cream of the Hampshire order was a bit of a reach, Richie!!

Anyone who never saw Proctor would get a real sense of the bowler and the man from that vignette thumbsup Ale

That was Jerry Rice, not Clive Rice!


Tio avoid further confusion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Rice

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/19379.html John Rice

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/46976.html Clive Rice

https://unclebens.co.uk/our-products Uncle Bens Rice

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler

Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Hibbz Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:14 pm

I always had a soft spot for Fanie. Ran in like a farmer chasing schoolboys out of his orchards.

Hibbz
hibbz
hibbz

Posts : 2119
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Right here.

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Biltong Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:09 pm

Hibbz wrote:I always had a soft spot for Fanie. Ran in like a farmer chasing schoolboys out of his orchards.
Laugh

Excellent description.
Biltong
Biltong
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:40 pm

So not Jade Dernbach then? Whistle

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler

Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by gboycottnut Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:39 pm

Hibbz wrote:I always had a soft spot for Fanie. Ran in like a farmer chasing schoolboys out of his orchards.

South Africa had some very good pace bowlers in the early 1990's, which included guys like Fanie de Villiers, Richard Snell, the tall Tertius Bosch, Craig Matthews, Steven Jack,Brett Schultz, Corrie Van Zyl. It is interesting that Fanie De Villiers wasn't selected for the 1991 tour of India, the 1992 World Cup nor for the following tour of the West Indies shortly after that tournament. Does anyone know why Fanie de Villiers wasn't selected for these 3 historic events in South African cricket?

gboycottnut

Posts : 1919
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Debate: Greatest SA bowlers. Empty Re: Debate: Greatest SA bowlers.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum