Amir Khan - Is he a British great already ???

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If he quit tomorrow would he be a great of British boxing????

Alan minter is regarded as one..........

Don't think Minter was a racist......You're condemning him on a spur of the moment mistake..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You're condemning him on a spur of the moment mistake..

Correctomondo.

To be fair he was never going to outpoint him was he, I think that was a given. But as I remember he rocked him a few times and Hearns gave him plenty of respect. I'm not saying Andries was SRL, just that he had his qualities and he made the very most of them and you can't say that about every fighter.
Didn't he end up at the Kronk after the Hearns fight because he impressed Manny Stewart who realised if he actually taught him some boxing basics he might do OK.

"No black man is going to take my title"

Maybe he just didn't rate black fighters??

Diggers I must have watched a different fight...I saw a pathetic no talent wildswinging nightclub fighter get trashed.....I'd never seen Andries before that fight and I thought he was awful..

In fairness he did get better after.....

Should have seen some of the "Crawley Massive" who followed Minter to fights. Hair short to the point of non-existence, nice 12-holers, braces, and an uncontrollable twitch in their right arms. Lovely guys.

Doesn't necessarily make Minter a racist, but didn't help his cause, put it that way.

Wonder If fearless thinks Hopkins is a racist??

Well if a nightclub brawler can deck an all time great...them clearly the all time great isn't worthy of that description.

Hopkins' care and concern for his greatest fan (a white kid with a terrible illness) gives the lie to that idea, Truss. He's said and done some pretty stupid things, mind, what with the Puerto Rican flag episode and the Calzaghe jibes. Speaking of flags, that's one of the things I remember most about Minter, the ubiquity of those Union Jacks around him. Someone should really have had a word....

I dunno, Diggers, Tony Galento did it to Joe Louis.

Absolutely Captain...just putting pay to the idea that one thing said on the spur of the moment can label someone for life!!

To be honest diggers If I didn't know what fight you were talking about...

I'd think it was another Hagler-Hearns..

You had to be in England in the early 80s, Truss. Racially, it was not the most tolerant place ever, and Crawley, which is essentially London overspill and not far from where I was at school at the time, was pretty typical. Minter wouldn't have been one of your SS stormtrooper types, unlike some of his more intellectually challenged fans, but he was fairly typical of his time and background. You know, the kind who would like to see the jobs go to the indigenous population, sus laws are a good idea, that kind of thing. We've come some distance as a country in thirty-odd years, I'm glad to say.

Had no idea Britain was like that......Obviously there is a racist contingent in every State....

Had no idea it was fairly rampant over here back then.....

Certainly never really seen anything much while I've been here..

Did one event change the outlook in the eighties???

I think the term for life in Britain back then was excepted racism but it was something you would find not just in boxing but every industry in Britain.

Really Truss, when all I've said is that Andries made the most of his tools which I think most would agree with.
Hearns took 10 rounds to put him away despite Andries being wide open, and he nearly paid the price by getting caught himself.
As I say Steward saw something in him that you clearly missed.

Minter never seemed too upset about the racist tag to be honest.

See you're changing history again...............

It was a one sided slaughter and he approached Steward!!

But hey...you're showing some spirit and you are most welcome on here..

No, a gradual thing. Have to remember the 81 riots in the UK were predominantly, although not exclusively, race-related. Certainly the ones in Bristol and London were.

As with most things, civilisation arrives late to the party and gradually removes the worst excesses of barbarities like racism. Twas ever thus in historical terms. We were hanging people until the mid-60s; it would be unthinkable now. No-one raised an international squeak about apartheid until Sharpville and Rivonia and so on. There come these watershed moments from time to time when revolting practices finally meet a global generation unprepared to put up with them and so they die.

In the UK, you could call the riots that moment if you wanted, but it still took many years to get to where we are today, which, as the Stephen Lawrence case shows us, isn't perfect, by any means.

To get back to the point, Minter would undoubtedly be called a racist today and be barred from doing anything of any significance with his life. For his time, however, he wasn't anything unusual and that's the way he was generally regarded by the British.

I'm sure Manny took on every fighter who asked hin to train them ? Not that you or I were there to actually know how the conversation actually went.
And thanks for the welcome to a forum I've posted on for about 8 years in its various guises, most gracious.

"Not that you or I were actually there to know".........re Steward

"Minter never seemed too upset about the racist tag"...re Minter

Two contradictory statements there my friend..

Not really, I put forward an opinion re Minter, I could be wrong and accept that.
What I do know for a fact is Manny saw enough in Andries to train him, regardless of who approached who. He wouldn't have done that if he hasn't seen something he liked in the Hearns fight...as I said.

You put forward an opinion......You have no idea how Minter feels about anything..

I put forward a fact that Andries approached Steward....

Now we can all speculate......or as I like to call it p**s in the wind..

Steward had two different types of boxers in his camp, those he was passionate about like Hearns and those he trained purely for the money like Andries. Not a dig at Manny because he's one of boxing good guys like everyone else he had to make a living.

I actually think that only Hearns fits into your first category, Ghosty. When Tommy was at the Kronk, everyone, and I mean everyone, else came second, which is why people like McCallum decided that they'd be better off elsewhere. Manny was a good guy, but it would be wrong to oversell the altruism, just as it would with Ingle over here. Yes, both did masses for underprivileged kids, but boxing was their business, and we shouldn't forget that.

Grasping at straws re reasons for Manny training him, Andries made Manny money because of his vast improvement under Steward, he never went there as a rich man, far from it.
Potential seen, money made. Seems pretty clear to me.

Hilmer Kenty was a Steward favorite by all accounts....but I agree with Captain....Hearns was all consuming later on..

They fell out eventually and he took Prentiss Byrd with him..

Diggers I admire your tenacity but it's all conjecture and speculation Mate...

It's not conjecture and speculation that he improved and made Steward money, its fact. Something your case sadly lacks.

My case lacks......

Hearns battered Andries.. yes or no.......?

Do you know how Minter feels about the racist comment? yes or no..

Did Andries approach Steward...yes or no??

that's my case kid.......

If that's lacking I'd love you to represent me If I ever get done for murder after being caught with a knife in my hand screaming "I did it..I did it"

As if I could t quote you the way you have me, always found that a tad childish but everyone debates their own way. The kid comment sad in the extreme and the hallmark of a bettered man. Expected more, not sure why now.

I didn't think you were this sensitive...

Mate we'll leave it... but I'd like any fairminded person to look at our exchange and tell where I've been bettered...

I say Kid a lot.....It wasn't a put down...

Not remotely sensitive, too long in the tooth for that. Quoting random statements from the course of a debate ignores context and how the debate flows. I just find it dull. For indtance I've already stated clearly my view on Minter was an opinion so why obsess on it ?
Anyway my point was never to make Andries something he's not , just to say what he was as a fighter certainly had some merit and I certainly took a lot of pleasure from watching him have some success.

Ignores context....

Mate you said Andries gave Tommy a good fight...I quoted the scores 89-80...89-80 and 89-77......

and I said Andries asked Steward to train him....which is in contrast to you saying he impressed Steward so much he took him on....

You all so said Minter never seemed to mind the racist tag..you don't Minter as I don't....

I'm just pointing out that factually you are incorrect....

13 points behind on one card and 9 points behind on the others after 9 rounds.....

Don't try and move the goal posts.....My statements might be random but at least they are FACTUAL..

Let's leave it..

Khan is a British great.

Not moving any goal posts, Hearns was on the deck...he could have lost that fight.......thats a fact. If you dont think that one fighter knocking another down counts for anything well thats up to you. As I said clearly he was never going to outbox Hearns, he had a punchers chance and he very nearly took it.
You say he asked Manny to train him, maybe he did, not convinced but its possible. What I am convinced of and I think I have made a case for is that Steward saw enough in him to think it worthwhile to train him...the money argument you put forward is just a nonsense quite frankly... and so it proved. Thats how things turned out whether you want to accept it or not.
And thats where Ill leave it thanks.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Wonder If fearless thinks Hopkins is a racist??

I don't think Hopkins is prejudiced against white people - partly because of the young white boy Hopkins befriended (as Captain described) and partly because he isn't a moron like Minter is.

He is a Brit great and a great Brit.

Khan aint a British great, hes a tool. Haye deserves to be rated way ahead of Khan. Proper champion and who knows how far he could have gone if he wasnt so unlucky to be injured against Klitschko.

Waingro?

Quite possibly

Well he certainly puts the W in anchor.

You guys are too severe on severe....I stubbed my toe in the bath once and could my Ali on the Xbox360 get out of the way of any shots....?

You betcha he couldn't!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You guys are too severe on severe....I stubbed my toe in the bath once and could my Ali on the Xbox360 get out of the way of any shots....?

You betcha he couldn't!!

You should have given it a pain killing injection like David then at least Ali'd be able to run away!

Haha you lot giving it the big one eh. Id liketo see any of you fight Wlad Klitschko instead of slagging off fighters from behind your keyboard. Tools.

severe-mma wrote:Haha you lot giving it the big one eh. Id liketo see any of you fight Wlad Klitschko instead of slagging off fighters from behind your keyboard. Tools.

Why should any of us fight Wlad? Muppet.

I'm 40ish ( ) like Lewis.......So I'm the right age to give him a slap...

azania wrote:

severe-mma wrote:Haha you lot giving it the big one eh. Id liketo see any of you fight Wlad Klitschko instead of slagging off fighters from behind your keyboard. Tools.

Why should any of us fight Wlad? Muppet.

naughty naughty boy

Wikeed innit.

Hope he's not the average Froch fan..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Hope he's not the average Froch fan..

He has fans?