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Where are the next Shane Warne's?

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Where are the next Shane Warne's? Empty Where are the next Shane Warne's?

Post by LuvSports! Wed 30 Jan 2013, 11:20 am

Hey guys hope you are good.
wrote this on the lack of spinners since the great man retired.

any feedback would be great ta Smile
http://richard-mills-sports.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/where-are-next-shane-warnes.html

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Post by gboycottnut Wed 30 Jan 2013, 2:23 pm

There won't be another Shane Warne in our lifetime, as Shane Warne was a once in a lifetime legspinner.

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Post by LuvSports! Wed 30 Jan 2013, 2:54 pm

i agree but isn't it odd that nobody of note has followed in his footsteps?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 30 Jan 2013, 2:56 pm

Adil Rashid ftw
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Post by LuvSports! Wed 30 Jan 2013, 3:07 pm

he the next big thing for aussie spin? still not a fan of lyons 2bh but from what ive seen he is the best in aus so they should stick with him for once imo!

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Post by gboycottnut Wed 30 Jan 2013, 3:11 pm

Fawad Ahmed the Pakistani born leg-spinner is next in line to try and become the next successful legspinner at an international level for the Australian cricket team.

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Post by LuvSports! Wed 30 Jan 2013, 5:16 pm

any criticisms of the article btw? dont hold back, need to learn!

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Post by Shelsey93 Wed 30 Jan 2013, 5:24 pm

I think part of Australia's problem, at least until after 2010-11, was that they didn't heed the warnings from England fans about how hard it was to find 'the next Ian Botham'. In the early days after Warne they tried things which anybody could tell you had probably a 5-10% chance of working, like getting Cameron White and Michael Clarke to share the overs of spin in Asia, or picking Jason Krejza (yes, he took 12 wickets, but a look at the economy rate/ scorecard probably tells you more about how he bowled!) or Bryce McGain.

When they finally found someone in Hauritz who was doing a perfectly good job - probably a bit better than Harris was for SA at a similar time, and not far off what Giles did for England - they bolted after a couple of average efforts rather than stuck by him. Since then Lyon has shown himself to be reasonably canny, but not as consistent as Hauritz was, and struggling at home which has become a bit of a spinner's graveyard in recent years.

The truth is that right now there isn't anybody who would be able to do that much of a better job than Lyon (if we discount Hauritz, as Australia clearly have). Steve O'Keefe is a decent bowler, but its unreasonable to expect him to get anywhere close to Panesar, Rehman or Ojha amongst left-arm spinners.

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Post by LuvSports! Wed 30 Jan 2013, 5:36 pm

good post thanks bud, very informative.

Although you speak of hauritz, i do remember when i went to the 09 ashes test at lords, the "fanatics" were dreading the "horror show" aka hauritz coming on to bowl.

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Post by msp83 Thu 31 Jan 2013, 12:32 pm

Its not just who after Warne. Who after Murali? Who after Kumble? are all unanswered questions. Other than Saeed Ajmal and Graeme Swann, and to a lesser extend Rangana Herath, the game at a global level, is struggling for quality and consistent spinners who are good in all formats. Harbhajan Singh has lost it, Vetori never was a massively wicket taking threat as a spinner and now he has his fitness concerns and loss of form. Panesar did have his problems of adaptability, Mendis lost his magic soon, Narine hasn't really established himself in test cricket, Ravichandran Ashwin is a bit too erratic, Tahir is not good enough for international cricket.
The 3 successful spinners are all 30+. Among the younger lot, its only Shakib Al Hasan, Narine, Ashwin and Ojha who give some hope.
Perhaps Sri Lanka will throw up another unconventional and effective spinner. India might rediscover some lost quality in the spin department, Australia might find someone who can spin it....... But the immediate future doesn't offer much hope.

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Post by LuvSports! Thu 31 Jan 2013, 3:34 pm

gd post, but other countries are producing decent spinners right?
and I think they are better than the aussie spinners.

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Post by Stella Thu 31 Jan 2013, 4:16 pm

The Aussies got lucky with Warne. They hadn't unearthed a world class spinner for years before Warne came along and there's no reason why they should now, apart from youngsters wanting to be like Warne. Ironically enough, Macgill was playing at the same time. He would be a first XI playerif he had been born 10 years later.

Norman O'Neill and Neil Harvey were the new Bradman's at one stage. Now that's pressure.

England had the same problem with Botham. Every new player who bowled seam/swing and could bat, was heralded as the new Beefy. Even Gough (one test fifty) was bracketed as one.
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Post by VTR Thu 31 Jan 2013, 4:27 pm

Yes, I think that's the thing with Warne, the Aussies were very lucky to have such a talent, a once in every 50 years type player. The problem came when here retired leaving expectations raised of what a spinner can do, and if they didn't perform miracles they were too quickly cast aside.

I'd say Hauritz was decent and should have been persisted with and developed. Lyon looks to have potential and has had a run of games but its taken the selectors about 5 years including some laughable picks to realise what a fair expectation for a spinner is.

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Post by kingraf Thu 31 Jan 2013, 4:55 pm

1- SK Warne, and Murali are once in a lifetime players asking where to find the next Warne is like actively looking for the next TS Elliot. These great talents literally just pop up and the best you can do is hope that they are in an environment which cultivates their ability (the world is more middle-class now. Would Murali have taken up cricket if he was born into the family business, or a family of doctors?

2- The effect of video analysis cannot be understated. With a Dale Steyn, you cant prepaire enough for 90+ mph, but if you know where the minor changes are in a 50mph spinner, you nullify them a great deal. I have no doubt that Mendis played 20 years earlier, he would have taken 300 wickets before getting found out.

lastly, there is much greater batting depth in modern cricket, Warne bowled to
Kirsten
Gibbs
Kallis
Cronje
Cullinan

In contrast Lyon faced
Smith
Amla
ABD
Kallis

With the exception of Australia I ak sure every other side has similar improvements in their top order.
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Post by LuvSports! Thu 31 Jan 2013, 4:59 pm

i must confess I wrote the title to try and cause further debate, a more eye catching title. The main premise of the article was to outline how aussie cricket is stunting the growth of aussie spinners.

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Post by msp83 Thu 31 Jan 2013, 5:10 pm

Unorthodox spinners like Mendis came in the past, and most of them did struggle to make a consistent impact. I don't think its just TV that exposed Mendis.
Of course the likes of Warne and Murali are ones in a generation cricketers and you may not find easy replacements so easily and so soon. But there is a larger point. Quality spinners are something for which the teams struggle these days. Modern day South Africa never had one, but every other side had. Besides Kumble, India had Harbhajan Singh, and before him the likes of Venkitapathy Raju who could do a pretty decent job on turning tracks. Pakistan had Mushtaq Ahmed, Saqlain Mushtaq and Danish Kaneria before Ajmal. And Australia of course had Stuard MacGill.

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Post by gboycottnut Thu 31 Jan 2013, 7:16 pm

msp83 wrote:Unorthodox spinners like Mendis came in the past, and most of them did struggle to make a consistent impact. I don't think its just TV that exposed Mendis.
Of course the likes of Warne and Murali are ones in a generation cricketers and you may not find easy replacements so easily and so soon. But there is a larger point. Quality spinners are something for which the teams struggle these days. Modern day South Africa never had one, but every other side had. Besides Kumble, India had Harbhajan Singh, and before him the likes of Venkitapathy Raju who could do a pretty decent job on turning tracks. Pakistan had Mushtaq Ahmed, Saqlain Mushtaq and Danish Kaneria before Ajmal. And Australia of course had Stuard MacGill.

England it seems are now the best in the world in the spin bowling department what with Graeme Swann and Monty Panesar, with Pakistan second with guys like Saeed Ajmal.

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Post by gboycottnut Thu 31 Jan 2013, 7:18 pm

Stella wrote:The Aussies got lucky with Warne. They hadn't unearthed a world class spinner for years before Warne came along and there's no reason why they should now, apart from youngsters wanting to be like Warne. Ironically enough, Macgill was playing at the same time. He would be a first XI playerif he had been born 10 years later.

Norman O'Neill and Neil Harvey were the new Bradman's at one stage. Now that's pressure.

England had the same problem with Botham. Every new player who bowled seam/swing and could bat, was heralded as the new Beefy. Even Gough (one test fifty) was bracketed as one.
Chris Lewis was the new Ian Botham of the 1990's and before him it was Phil DeFreitais and guys like Derek Pringle and David Capel.

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Post by LuvSports! Thu 31 Jan 2013, 7:51 pm

I don't agree england are the best in the spin bowling department.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 31 Jan 2013, 8:05 pm

In terms of English leg spinners Chris Schofield and Adil Rashid have come and gone whilst Steve Borthwick is a talented young bowler who like most leggies needs to develop a bit more control.

What happened to Will Beer does anyone know? I remember being very impressed with him in the one-day stuff a couple of years back but don't think I've heard anything about him since.

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu 31 Jan 2013, 8:05 pm

Pakistan would be 1st in the spin department, followed probably by England, then India and SL about equal, then WI, and then Australia, NZ and SA trailing in.

Will Beer has shown a bit of talent in one-dayers, but not a convincing enough case to get into a Sussex FC team which already have Monty (plus a very useful pair of part-timers in Nash and Yardy). They also have the South African chinaman bowler Michael Rippon who came out of nowhere last year.

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 31 Jan 2013, 8:30 pm

LuvSports (Richard) - interesting blog.

Echoing comments made by others, you don't get too many outstanding spin bowlers come along too often. You could equally have looked to the past and asked 'Where were the earlier Shane Warnes?'.

It's now largely forgotten that before Warne and Swann appeared on the international scene, Australia and England had tried Terry Jenner, Tony 'Rocket' Man, Kerry O'Keefe, Bob 'Dutchy' Holland, Ian Salisbury, Chris Schofield and many, many more who merited a career in the game but were well short of international class. By all means, aspire for the best and seek to develop it but don't expect it to automatically appear.

Further points brought out in a good article from Shelsey about 'Leggies becoming wrong 'uns' that I've just reposted.

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Post by gboycottnut Thu 31 Jan 2013, 11:32 pm

guildfordbat wrote:LuvSports (Richard) - interesting blog.

Echoing comments made by others, you don't get too many outstanding spin bowlers come along too often. You could equally have looked to the past and asked 'Where were the earlier Shane Warnes?'.

It's now largely forgotten that before Warne and Swann appeared on the international scene, Australia and England had tried Terry Jenner, Tony 'Rocket' Man, Kerry O'Keefe, Bob 'Dutchy' Holland, Ian Salisbury, Chris Schofield and many, many more who merited a career in the game but were well short of international class. By all means, aspire for the best and seek to develop it but don't expect it to automatically appear.

Further points brought out in a good article from Shelsey about 'Leggies becoming wrong 'uns' that I've just reposted.

Does anyone remember the excellent legspinner Trevor Hohns who played in the ashes series in England in 1989 and could have made a huge difference to the poor Australian bowling attack that played in the ashes in England in 1985.

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Post by LuvSports! Fri 01 Feb 2013, 12:36 am

mention him in my article, you should read it Wink.

guildford bat thanks OK

informative post there, good to learn from ya, i will check this post out.

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