The problem with Wales

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:32 am

The 6 Nations needs a strong Wales as much as all the other teams. Where has it gone wrong?

I've read on here and heard from many others, theories about the coaching set-up, oversees players, players playing in France, WRU mismanagement etc etc. Which one is it or is it a bit of all?

I was saddened to catch the Scarlets/Leicester game and see the paucity of the crowd and the resulting poor atmosphere - the only audible noise was the booing of the opposition.
What was good to see was the contrast in style of the more creative Welsh side against what was admittedly a particularly dire Leicester performance (perhaps not a typical display), but still a timely reminder why a good Wales is good for our game. Shame there were so few true rugby fans there to see it. I know it was a dead rubber but a big game all the same - no excuse!

My fear is that next year could well see 2 Welsh teams in the Football Premier League and that the unrelenting march of the round ball game will continue to the detriment of our beloved game. I suspect that Scottish rugby has been paying this price for many years now and that sadly Wales looks like it could follow.

Mainly to Welsh posters - Is football's popularity negatively effecting rugby or is this an unfair assessment from an occasional viewer from this side of the border of games on your side?

by AlastairW Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:45 am

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote: The 6 Nations needs a strong Wales as much as all the other teams.

Taking the national colours off and looking at it as a great sporting event, the 6N needs a full contingent of strong teams.

It does no one any favours to have a pseudo-2 tier competition. There will always be those sides in the ascendancy and those on the down slope, but great competition will inevitably 'force' any team on the down slope to climb back up again. There is nothing like a weekend of nail-bitingly close games Very Happy

If any team invaraibly does 'go under', that will diminish this competition greatly. For all of us 'old boys club' nations in the NH.

by Impossible Standards Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:02 pm

WRU mismanagement

This is the key term as to why rugby in Wales is suffering. By this I mean the whole set up and structure. Lack of interest in schools, over use of academies, inexperienced coaches in the wrong positions at all levels, etc etc. I could go on but I don't want to bore you. Very Happy

We have weak foundations in which our pro game was based on and the WRU seem to be doing their best to ignore the real problems as the moment. It's fixable but I don't hold any hopes.

by red_stag Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:12 pm

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:
Mainly to Welsh posters - Is football's popularity negatively effecting rugby or is this an unfair assessment from an occasional viewer from this side of the border of games on your side?

I'm not Welsh but I read this article in The Guardian last week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/feb/01/bridgend-maesteg-death-welsh-rugby

It basically says that at grassroots level rugby is falling behind soccer. Whether its an unfair reflection of things or not I dont know - but its a really really good read.

by Impossible Standards Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:23 pm

Stag - I just got malwared going on that site.... Sad

by Casartelli Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:28 pm

red_stag wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:
Mainly to Welsh posters - Is football's popularity negatively effecting rugby or is this an unfair assessment from an occasional viewer from this side of the border of games on your side?

I'm not Welsh but I read this article in The Guardian last week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/feb/01/bridgend-maesteg-death-welsh-rugby

It basically says that at grassroots level rugby is falling behind soccer. Whether its an unfair reflection of things or not I dont know - but its a really really good read.

It's a great piece.

Coach (ex British Lion): "Run around the posts."

Player: "F**k off."

There's so much wrong with the structure of the game that it's easier to list what's good.

i. We have a good national coach (when he's not on sabbatical).

That's about it.

by red_stag Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:30 pm

Impossible Standards wrote:Stag - I just got malwared going on that site....

Really? On the Guardian website? Thats very peculiar.

by Impossible Standards Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:41 pm

Yep, google chrome just told me...

by red_stag Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:42 pm

Impossible Standards wrote:Yep, google chrome just told me...

Strange, I didnt get that. Anyone else have an issue with it. I use Chrome too.

by Casartelli Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:45 pm

It was fine with me. On ze chrome too.

by red_stag Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:47 pm

Casartelli wrote:It was fine with me. On ze chrome too.

Must have been those "other sites" he was looking at. Rugby porno featuring the heel of Simon Zebo and the hands of BOD!

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:49 pm

I read that article the other day, Stag. It's saddening.

by thebluesmancometh Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:49 pm

Such a sad story but even worse unbelievably accurate!!

by red_stag Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:51 pm

I remember that for years Maesteg would come to Limerick for the Wales v Ireland game even though the game would be on in Dublin. Publicans used to absolutely love it as they were a regular fixture and came in droves all from Maesteg RFC. Great club traditions.

by Impossible Standards Mon 04 Feb 2013, 1:48 pm

Must have been those "other sites" he was looking at. Rugby porno featuring the heel of Simon Zebo and the hands of BOD!

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon 04 Feb 2013, 1:49 pm

red_stag wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:
Mainly to Welsh posters - Is football's popularity negatively effecting rugby or is this an unfair assessment from an occasional viewer from this side of the border of games on your side?

I'm not Welsh but I read this article in The Guardian last week.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/feb/01/bridgend-maesteg-death-welsh-rugby

It basically says that at grassroots level rugby is falling behind soccer. Whether its an unfair reflection of things or not I dont know - but its a really really good read.

Thanks stag for the link. A sad read indeed and mainly confirms my worst fears that will only be exacerbated if Cardiff win promotion this year.

What can be done to stop the rot, as whereas England, France may be big enough to survive the football onslaught, no team can afford to be complacent? In the article the chap says he gave up his All Black tickets to take his son to the Swansea/MU game because it's a "better spectacle". Is it? Personally I don't really get football, I don't deny its skill but I find it very dull, long passages of play passing the ball from defence to midfield followed by a long ball punted forward and a free kick for offside. In 90 minutes of play perhaps 10 minutes of exciting play. Whereas rugby is more or less 80 minutes of non stop action; there can be the odd passage of aimless up and unders but not for that long, on the whole either fantastic physical confrontation or flowing free running and big hits, that's a spectacle.
Why are most youngsters drawn to football? Personally I think it's another example of the power of the media to shape young minds to ensure continued revenue - Murdoch and his like are killing rugby - fill the papers, back and front pages with footballers, peer pressure is created and billions of dollars worth of Sky packages are sold. Shouldn't art imitate life and not the other way round?

by Impossible Standards Mon 04 Feb 2013, 2:16 pm

Managed to read it finally...(after my dodgy sites) yes sad times for some clubs. As I mentioned before the WRU have got it wrong and will lose the majority of fans unless some intervention to the grass roots is done. A lot of people can see between the lines in Wales but the WRU cannot.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 04 Feb 2013, 2:24 pm

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:In the article the chap says he gave up his All Black tickets to take his son to the Swansea/MU game because it's a "better spectacle". Is it? Personally I don't really get football, I don't deny its skill but I find it very dull, long passages of play passing the ball from defence to midfield followed by a long ball punted forward and a free kick for offside. In 90 minutes of play perhaps 10 minutes of exciting play.

Swansea City play an attractive brand of football - they're one of the best sides in the Premiership to watch. So it's a dual draw to spectators: the chance to see big sides coming to play at the Liberty, and the home side playing good football and beating the visitors half the time. Compare that to regional rugby where the quality is usually not great and the best visiting sides almost always win.

by SecretFly Mon 04 Feb 2013, 2:43 pm

The problem with the Welsh (perhaps a tad tongue in cheek as it's none of my business to be serious about the topic....) is that they only want to play for Wales.

The speed, dexterity, passion, quickness of hand and mind shown in the second half of the Ireland v Wales game tells me the desire is only for the red of Wales. The pity is that the Regions seem to be only training grounds mentally for the players, preparation for the Red. The pity is that the Red can only handle so many players at a time. Players loose their careers dreaming about holding back on Regional excesses (injury worries in 'non-significant' Pro12 games) in the hope of getting to show their true potential in Red.

In Ireland it's kinda the opposite. Players see red in the Provinical colours and kinda take cat naps through their International careers...one day they're turned on, the next day they're curled up in straw sleeping off the excesses of Provincial mindgames and action.

Simplification I know, but it's still an overview that certainly I see truth in, looking from the outside in.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:03 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:In the article the chap says he gave up his All Black tickets to take his son to the Swansea/MU game because it's a "better spectacle". Is it? Personally I don't really get football, I don't deny its skill but I find it very dull, long passages of play passing the ball from defence to midfield followed by a long ball punted forward and a free kick for offside. In 90 minutes of play perhaps 10 minutes of exciting play.

Swansea City play an attractive brand of football - they're one of the best sides in the Premiership to watch. So it's a dual draw to spectators: the chance to see big sides coming to play at the Liberty, and the home side playing good football and beating the visitors half the time. Compare that to regional rugby where the quality is usually not great and the best visiting sides almost always win.

Luckless are you another being turned by the hype? I don't doubt Swansea are a fine team but I'd rather watch a great game played badly than a poor game played well.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:06 pm

Fly, I agree that Wales should never have gone to the regional set up but I still see the self-serving media hype of football as the main problem.

by SecretFly Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:19 pm

I know the regional issue is complex and pretty darned problematic for outsiders to fully understand to be honest..but I was thinking more that the players in the regions should actually settle down, settle into and start giving their true energies to the regional game - through Pro12 and into HEC (or whatever will replace it). Show the rugby instincts and drive that they show at International level for their regions. - and then through regions into the International side. But at regional they seem to hold back on the all out efforts...and I think the crowds that don't come (to be figurative about it) see that lack of true effort and reward the efforts with non attendances. Welsh players playing in Welsh regions should have won at least one HEC by now. They have to keep their eye on the Red of International but also to give more of the flair to the (for them) 'boring' Regional stuff as well.

by thebluesmancometh Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:21 pm

Fly

Theres a reason why players raise their games and crowds turn up for the local derbies!!!

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:27 pm

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:In the article the chap says he gave up his All Black tickets to take his son to the Swansea/MU game because it's a "better spectacle". Is it? Personally I don't really get football, I don't deny its skill but I find it very dull, long passages of play passing the ball from defence to midfield followed by a long ball punted forward and a free kick for offside. In 90 minutes of play perhaps 10 minutes of exciting play.

Swansea City play an attractive brand of football - they're one of the best sides in the Premiership to watch. So it's a dual draw to spectators: the chance to see big sides coming to play at the Liberty, and the home side playing good football and beating the visitors half the time. Compare that to regional rugby where the quality is usually not great and the best visiting sides almost always win.

Luckless are you another being turned by the hype? I don't doubt Swansea are a fine team but I'd rather watch a great game played badly than a poor game played well.

I was just explaining the appeal of Swansea City. I'm a season ticket holder at the Dragons and I much prefer rugby to football.

by Morgannwg Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:31 pm

Stag's posted article is ridiculous. And what does it tell us? Nothing that we haven't known for the past 4 years (the merger of Bridgend and Maesteg anyone?). Except back then they were blaming the Ospreys, not football. Football has been ever present in popular in Wales all these years so I wouldn't put any fundamental problems in Welsh rugby down to this, it's the infrastructure of the game. So much of it is done wrong it's unreal. As long as the players and Gatland are available the national team will take care of itself. The Regional/club game needs fixing.

by SecretFly Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:39 pm

Raising their games consistently... consistently - to have a real emotional connection both to the idea of winning the Pro12 and bloody well winning the HEC (or whatever it will be) too. I'm not talking about passion and Derbies, bluesman - if you only knew how much I hate the concept of 'derbies' in any sport. Full fixation, both professional and emotional, to all games played at Regional level and the crowds that might come would come, in my opinion. Can't blame the crowds for not being there (on non-derby days) for the sport that gets played on those non-derby days. You have to say the game must attract the crowds with continuously attractive (closing on Welsh international standard) emotionally involved rugby and more winning because of it.

The game is always the answer in my opinion - what's happening on the fields with no crowds of note is the beginning. You just can't expect the crowds unless you have a product that they should want to see. The product won't arrive through a boardroom decision on structures but by players who begin to take ownership of the idea that the Regions are finished with being second class Euro citizens and that those same players make the decision to gain their reputations through European club glory rather than waiting for the International call ups that might never come.

by red_stag Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:41 pm

Morgannwg wrote:As long as the players and Gatland are available the national team will take care of itself. The Regional/club game needs fixing.

That was the point though. The national team is doing well. They regions are doing badly. The clubs are doing worse.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Mon 04 Feb 2013, 3:50 pm

Fly, I understand your view but the point is is that the Scarlets looked good against Leicester, attractive to watch, the "produc"t was good, there was just no one there to see it. No WAGS, no hype in the tabloids, no interest. Perhaps "Celebrity Rugby" shown on ITV on a Saturday night is the answer, watching a front row of Christopher Biggins, Anne Widdicombe and someone no one has ever heard of from Big Brother series 3 take on the Argentinian front row in front of a panel of judges chaired by Rod Andrrew is what the public want.

by gboycottnut Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:07 pm

Gareth Llewellyn on scrum V says that Wales need to abandon the blitz defence. Just what exactly is a blitz defence? To me it sounds like some strategy obtained from American Football, which I don't think needs to be incorporated into Rugby, as Rugby is a different game entirely from American Football.

by GunsGerms Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:33 pm

Cant help feeling Wales are a bit of a sleeping giant. I have a feeling they might reawaken for the English. Fe fi fo fum........

by thebluesmancometh Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:36 pm

Already had the 4 losses and a final win dream guns, that would mark a great tournament for us!!

by **George Carlin** Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:39 pm

I realise that one follows the other but which do Welsh fans think is more important for developing the grass roots game - the National team doing well or the regional franchises doing well (regardless of whether the main stars are Welsh or not)?

Incidentally, 3 grand slams in a decade is not usually a sign of a national sport in decline.

by GunsGerms Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:42 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Already had the 4 losses and a final win dream guns, that would mark a great tournament for us!!

Not impossible at all. Though I would be worried that Wales tend to either win a slam or the spoon or thereabouts.

by thebluesmancometh Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:48 pm

Carlin

Youve actually hit the nail on the head. The WRU aren't interested in a succesfull club game whatsoever, and as long as the Int cash cow keeps producing theyre pretty happy, the problem with that however is that it's built upon quicksand. The support that team Wales receive and is taylored to is built upon a pretty fickle fan base, and when things start to go badly that fan base tends to move on to other success's (in this case Swansea and Cardiff city)

The WRU may soon have on their hands a situation where they've alienated a large proportion of the die hards, and when the fickle fanbase move on there is little left. This was evident on sat when for the first time in a long time that a game of such magnitude wasn't a sell out.

The Blues fanbase has all but deserted them, the Dragons dwindling, and the Scarlets saw a few hundred turn out the other night!!!

The times of the WRU receiving huge amounts and repaying their debtors at record pace will soon be over, and it will have to tighten it's belt, which in turn means the regions will feel the brunt, and the cycle will begin all over again!!!

by Casartelli Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:57 pm

I have it from a fairly reliable source that when the debt reaches a certain minimum threshold, funds can be diverted to pay for life-size bronze sculptures of the 2012 GS squad (including management) that will be erected around the concourse outside the stadium.

'To give something back to the fans...' so the exec committee said.

by thebluesmancometh Mon 04 Feb 2013, 4:58 pm

First one erected is Lewis I guarentee it!!

by SecretFly Mon 04 Feb 2013, 5:09 pm

Casartelli wrote:I have it from a fairly reliable source that when the debt reaches a certain minimum threshold, funds can be diverted to pay for life-size bronze sculptures of the 2012 GS squad (including management) that will be erected around the concourse outside the stadium.

'To give something back to the fans...' so the exec committee said.

Getting more like the Colosseum every passing year. All we need now is an Emperor Gatland with a telling thumb and a warrior Commander of the Armies of the West and player of Japanese rugby to utter the words, "We who are about to retire (maybe), salute you"

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 05 Feb 2013, 7:44 am

gboycottnut wrote:Gareth Llewellyn on scrum V says that Wales need to abandon the blitz defence. Just what exactly is a blitz defence? To me it sounds like some strategy obtained from American Football, which I don't think needs to be incorporated into Rugby, as Rugby is a different game entirely from American Football.

If you don't know what it is, how can you have an opinion on it?

Read your Wittgenstein.

by samuraidragon Tue 05 Feb 2013, 8:24 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
gboycottnut wrote:Gareth Llewellyn on scrum V says that Wales need to abandon the blitz defence. Just what exactly is a blitz defence? To me it sounds like some strategy obtained from American Football, which I don't think needs to be incorporated into Rugby, as Rugby is a different game entirely from American Football.

If you don't know what it is, how can you have an opinion on it?

Read your Wittgenstein.

"Whereof Howley knows nothing, thereof he should remain silent"

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 05 Feb 2013, 8:45 am

Part of me feels sorry for Rob Howley: it's not his fault that he's ended up in this position despite having no experience of the role.

by 2ndtimeround Tue 05 Feb 2013, 9:47 am

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:The 6 Nations needs a strong Wales as much as all the other teams. Where has it gone wrong?

I've read on here and heard from many others, theories about the coaching set-up, oversees players, players playing in France, WRU mismanagement etc etc. Which one is it or is it a bit of all?

I was saddened to catch the Scarlets/Leicester game and see the paucity of the crowd and the resulting poor atmosphere - the only audible noise was the booing of the opposition.What was good to see was the contrast in style of the more creative Welsh side against what was admittedly a particularly dire Leicester performance (perhaps not a typical display), but still a timely reminder why a good Wales is good for our game. Shame there were so few true rugby fans there to see it. I know it was a dead rubber but a big game all the same - no excuse!

My fear is that next year could well see 2 Welsh teams in the Football Premier League and that the unrelenting march of the round ball game will continue to the detriment of our beloved game. I suspect that Scottish rugby has been paying this price for many years now and that sadly Wales looks like it could follow.

Mainly to Welsh posters - Is football's popularity negatively effecting rugby or is this an unfair assessment from an occasional viewer from this side of the border of games on your side?

I was at that game and the atmosphere was great, the only booing was aimed at the one sided antics of the ref (Garner from Coventry incidently!)who was binning scarlets players seemingly without prior warning whilst giving Tigers players final warning after final warning, the only thing that changed that was the attitude of Tigers captain Deacon as he kept shooting his mouth off at the Ref and answering back after he had been warned to shut up.
I believe that you can go to any ground anywhere and where the home fans believe the ref is not giving the decisions their way then they will be on the refs back to convince him he is wrong, its all part of the banter at the match, as for the booing been the only noise you must be deaf if you could not hear the cheering when the Scarlets pushed Leicester back of the ball on their own scrum, probably the loudest I have heard the PYS crowd since the opening game of the season.
I can only assume that this thread was started as an attempt to get a rise from the welsh fans.
As for the shame on there been so few true fans there, the crowd was just under 6.5k, not bad for a game with nothing on it on a weekend where most fans would have spent their money watching the Wales game.the same 6.5k that turn up week in week out in all weathers, but obviously they are not real rugby fans as they dared to Boo an English ref who for some reason was officiating the team he probably grew up supporting.
The only shame here is the pointless WUM.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Tue 05 Feb 2013, 11:02 am

2ndtimeround wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:The 6 Nations needs a strong Wales as much as all the other teams. Where has it gone wrong?

I've read on here and heard from many others, theories about the coaching set-up, oversees players, players playing in France, WRU mismanagement etc etc. Which one is it or is it a bit of all?

I was saddened to catch the Scarlets/Leicester game and see the paucity of the crowd and the resulting poor atmosphere - the only audible noise was the booing of the opposition.What was good to see was the contrast in style of the more creative Welsh side against what was admittedly a particularly dire Leicester performance (perhaps not a typical display), but still a timely reminder why a good Wales is good for our game. Shame there were so few true rugby fans there to see it. I know it was a dead rubber but a big game all the same - no excuse!

My fear is that next year could well see 2 Welsh teams in the Football Premier League and that the unrelenting march of the round ball game will continue to the detriment of our beloved game. I suspect that Scottish rugby has been paying this price for many years now and that sadly Wales looks like it could follow.

Mainly to Welsh posters - Is football's popularity negatively effecting rugby or is this an unfair assessment from an occasional viewer from this side of the border of games on your side?

I was at that game and the atmosphere was great, the only booing was aimed at the one sided antics of the ref (Garner from Coventry incidently!)who was binning scarlets players seemingly without prior warning whilst giving Tigers players final warning after final warning, the only thing that changed that was the attitude of Tigers captain Deacon as he kept shooting his mouth off at the Ref and answering back after he had been warned to shut up.
I believe that you can go to any ground anywhere and where the home fans believe the ref is not giving the decisions their way then they will be on the refs back to convince him he is wrong, its all part of the banter at the match, as for the booing been the only noise you must be deaf if you could not hear the cheering when the Scarlets pushed Leicester back of the ball on their own scrum, probably the loudest I have heard the PYS crowd since the opening game of the season.
I can only assume that this thread was started as an attempt to get a rise from the welsh fans.
As for the shame on there been so few true fans there, the crowd was just under 6.5k, not bad for a game with nothing on it on a weekend where most fans would have spent their money watching the Wales game.the same 6.5k that turn up week in week out in all weathers, but obviously they are not real rugby fans as they dared to Boo an English ref who for some reason was officiating the team he probably grew up supporting.
The only shame here is the pointless WUM.

2nd, try taking your "hating all things English" spectacles off and reread to original post.

This guy's a shoe in for the "most paranoid" poster of the year award.

by 2ndtimeround Tue 05 Feb 2013, 11:09 am

I read the original post mate and got the impression you where the one with the racist undertones, there is nothing English hating in my post at all.
My comments are based entirely on been at the ground not sitting in an armchair trying to get a bite.

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Tue 05 Feb 2013, 11:14 am

Errrr that's the racist bit about praising Welsh rugby and why we need a healthy game in Wales. Ooh and how the Scarlets looked good despite the attempts of the Welsh hating referee and Leicester players to cheat their way to a win.

As I say," This guy's a shoe in for the "most paranoid" poster of the year award".

by nobbled Tue 05 Feb 2013, 11:25 am

Perhaps it is the blitz-defence - I thought Wales were offside at the breakdown for most of the Ireland/Wales game last year - perhaps refs actually policing the breakdown has added to their woes?

by 2ndtimeround Tue 05 Feb 2013, 11:39 am

No its the cr*p about "few true fans", "poor atmosphere"! how the hell can u know without been there.; "only noise was booing"! did u have the sound off or else I understand specsavers now do hearing tests as well. oh and the headline "The problem with Wales" correct me if I'm wrong but isnt that a statement not a question.;

Like I said before, Wum and after brief look at your history I can only assume some sort of keyboard commando. wonder what the locked thread from the mods was all about.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 05 Feb 2013, 12:01 pm

A World Cup and 3 Finals and 2ndtimeround, can the pair of you BOTH
a) stop making a storm out of a teacup and
b) lay off the personal attacks

by Comfort Tue 05 Feb 2013, 12:10 pm

Spoiler:

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Tue 05 Feb 2013, 12:18 pm

Just trying to have a debate about how football maybe having an adverse effect on the game, until it was hijacked personal attack removed. Let's keep on topic and not drag this debate into another tedious anglo welsh slanging match.

Edit: Pete C
When I said "stop making the personal attacks" I didn't mean "take one last dig"

by Comfort Tue 05 Feb 2013, 12:24 pm

fow what its worth I agree with this:

'My fear is that next year could well see 2 Welsh teams in the Football Premier League and that the unrelenting march of the round ball game will continue to the detriment of our beloved game. I suspect that Scottish rugby has been paying this price for many years now and that sadly Wales looks like it could follow.'

I think this illustrates that due to the amount of money involved in football in comparison to rugby, especially comparing the demands and needs on the body against the 'celebrity' status youngsters can acheive in both sports, that the smaller countries who have successful football sides will see a detrimental affect to potential rugby numbers (and therefore potential physical talent) coming through at grassroots.

Success breeds interest.

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