The Warburton Dilema

We all saw R Jones have a fantastic game today (MOM IMO) and whilst the game style didn't benefit Tipuric he didn't have a bad game and (potentially) against Italy his game style would be more suited.

So what will Howler do with Warbuton:

1. The easy option drop Tipuric for Warburton

2. The harder one drop Jones and stick Warburton at 6

what about a 3rd option of playing Warburton at inside centre so that Wales have a good physical presence in the centre contact area which would be a vital important part of the game for when the England clash comes up in March?

For me, international selection should be about playing your way into the team. Warburton has left due to injury. His replacement is playing well. Warburton therefore needs to play very well at club level to force his way back into selection. He can't just be brought into the starting lineup for no reason other than he's recovered.

Griff,

I agree but hes been named at captain and I think we all know he would have started today if been fit.

But why? Just because of being captain? Ryan used to be captain but lost it when he played badly enough. Took a long time mind. But the decision was made. So why not Warburton? You can't keep bringing in a player who is not up to the first job in hand just because he has been nominated as captain. It's an important job, but it's not scared. Ryan can do it just as well.

To re-hash some old sayings, the captain needs to be guaranteed his starting place first and foremost, and then awarded the captaincy as the best leader of that group of starters. Warburton is not that, at the moment...

Bench Warburton, bring him on in the final 20 and tell him to prove a point. Under no circumstances drop Ryan or Tipuric.

Ryan Jones as captain, and unless Warbs can earn his place back before the end of the 6Ns, you announce a new captain, either Ryan Jones, or if they are looking towards 2015, pick a younger player. Alun Wyn Jones, or Tipuric (making Sam vice captain to interchange with Tipuric depending on form/fitness/match)

The back row worked well today, Ryan was the workhorse, Faletau the battering ram, and Tipuric the forager.

Save Warburton for the bench, he'd be a big boost to come on later against Italy if things get dodgy late on.

Maybe just maintain the lie that Warburton is injured to save him face from being dropped.

gboycottnut wrote:what about a 3rd option of playing Warburton at inside centre so that Wales have a good physical presence in the centre contact area which would be a vital important part of the game for when the England clash comes up in March?

Good shout. He did snaffle Manu well last year, so I'm onboard

wales606 wrote:Bench Warburton, bring him on in the final 20 and tell him to prove a point. Under no circumstances drop Ryan or Tipuric.

Ryan Jones as captain, and unless Warbs can earn his place back before the end of the 6Ns, you announce a new captain, either Ryan Jones, or if they are looking towards 2015, pick a younger player. Alun Wyn Jones, or Tipuric (making Sam vice captain to interchange with Tipuric depending on form/fitness/match)

Looks like you have called it the way Howley sees it.

I think Warburton has lost his mojo, bring him back slowly.

It's all over for this year, I fear. Jones and Tipuric don't deserve to be dropped from the national side; other back-rowers are putting their hands up all over the place as well so far as the Lions are concerned. Basically Warbs has chosen a particularly bad time to lose a bit of form and I fear that it's going to extract a disproportionate price from him. A pity, because I think that he's a good player and a good guy, but there we are.

Came across this on the BBC rugby web site.

Sam Warburton's British and Irish Lions hopes will not be damaged by his omission from the Wales team to play Italy, claims interim coach Rob Howley.
Warburton, once favourite to be Lions captain, will miss his second successive game as Howley sticks with the same team that beat France 16-6 .
Justin Tipuric impressed in Warburton's place during Saturday's win in Paris.
But when asked if Warburton's absence could cost him a Lions place, Howley said: "I wouldn't have thought so."

So what is Howely actually saying here?

Is he saying that Warren Gatland will pick Sam Warburton come what may?

Just because he is/was Wales captain. And Gatland owes him one?

What about picking Players on "FORM RATHER THAN REPUTATION"?

Thats not what was implied at all maj. If Warburton was playing regularly and poorly it would damage his lions credentials far more than not playing behind the form 7 in the world.

Why is it you insist on putting words into the welsh coaches mouths? Why do you and Mister feel the need to create drama from nothing?

Really all depends whether you think that the 6N is the only meaningful chance of making your case for inclusion. Some may think that the most recent form you show (ie for your club) is the most important - others will claim only intetnational test form matters.

If the latter is what Gatland thinks, then Lydiate, Warbuton, Rennie and Barclay won't be on the plane. On paper, that's three of the best opensides and arguably the best blindside not even at the races. Let's see.

What dilemma?

Forget the Lions. Right now, Warburton is not the best 6 or 7 in Wales. Sam needs a rest and then we will see if his injuries has affected his game long term or if he can return to his world class form.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Thats not what was implied at all maj. If Warburton was playing regularly and poorly it would damage his lions credentials far more than not playing behind the form 7 in the world.

Why is it you insist on putting words into the welsh coaches mouths? Why do you and Mister feel the need to create drama from nothing?

Because they read headlines and nothing more. As shown on Morg's Lions thread, you can see how English heavy Madge wants the Lions to be and so is obviously nervous about Warburton.

Madge, take a chill pill and try reading something properly. Howley is correct to answer that Warburton not starting next week doesn't strictly affect his Lions chances. He could easily come on against Italy, play well and then have two blinders v Scotland and England. Even if he doesn't, this obsession of yours (some two months before a Lions squad announcement) is getting tiresome.

Agree.There is no dilemma.Wales must pick the best XV on form.When Sam meets that criteria he will be back in the starting line up.

Risca Rev

I Have no problem with Warburton being picked for the Lions tour at all. Providing that he is the (BEST PLAYER IN HIS POSITION) And if you are honest you will have too agree that at the moment he is not the best player in his position right now.

I just want Gatland to select the best player from all 4 countrys. If Warburton is the best player then fair enough.

I simply dont want Gatland to select any player including Warburton "IF THEY ARE NOT ON FORM AND FULLY FIT"

Howley is sticking with a winning side. But in the larger debate for the Wales seven shirt it is Horses for courses.

Sam and Justin are two very different players that both contrast and compliment each other. Whichever is on or on the bench we can change the dynamic of our breakdown, where when other teams sub their openside they will just lack a first choice player.

majesticimperialman wrote:Risca Rev

I Have no problem with Warburton being picked for the Lions tour at all. Providing that he is the (BEST PLAYER IN HIS POSITION) And if you are honest you will have too agree that at the moment he is not the best player in his position right now.

I just want Gatland to select the best player from all 4 countrys. If Warburton is the best player then fair enough.

I simply dont want Gatland to select any player including Warburton "IF THEY ARE NOT ON FORM AND FULLY FIT"

He might surprise you Madge. A lot can happen in two months anyway. Best not to stress over it too much.