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Change to the scrum laws in RSA

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damage_13
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Change to the scrum laws in RSA Empty Change to the scrum laws in RSA

Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 13 Feb 2013, 8:25 pm

http://springboksupporter.co.za/Mobi/Default.aspx?Type=SARU&aliasPath=/News/SARU/New-scrum-laws-for-schools-and-clubs-in-SA

Thought this was quite an interesting piece. It seems that the last line sums it up:

"The emphasis will revert back to scrumming after the ball is fed in as opposed to ‘hitting’ in on the opponent"

I would also be a fan of:

"The engagement call for these three categories will be “crouch, bind, scrum” and the distance between the packs pre-setting will be reduced to where the heads of the two front rows are aligned ear-to-ear and in the opposite channel."

and,

"Binding post-engagement between the two front rows has to be such that the elbows are not lower than the shoulder line."

These 2 could stop much of the reasons for collapse (and hence potential for injury) by taking away the big "hit" and making it harder to pull the opponent down.

What do others think, and it would be interesting to hear form our resident Boks, Biltong and fa, as to how it's working?

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Post by Poorfour Wed 13 Feb 2013, 8:39 pm

Fully in favour of that. Shame there seems to be no intent to consider it for wider use.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 13 Feb 2013, 9:29 pm

I've heard that similar is being used and has been for more than a season in the amatuer leagues in France.

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Post by prop_lyd Wed 13 Feb 2013, 9:33 pm

I'm for the first bit as it brings back a lot of emphasis on technique and prop's reverting back to the size they used to be.

The 2nd part...yes it would take out the risk of quite a few collapsed scrums but also it would remove a few tricks of the front row trade.

I feel that the 2nd one would be very difficult for the referees to officiate with props at a different height so the smaller prop would be at an advantage....which I'm not complaining about!!
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Post by Bathman_in_London Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:42 am

Interesting. Although a shame that its designed to build up to the 'hit' through the leagues, rather than being tested with a view to implament more widely.

It should mean a lot less re-setting (although in my experience this doesnt happen too much at amateur level) and make scrummaging technique more important again.

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Post by LondonTiger Thu 14 Feb 2013, 9:46 am

If we simply enforce the current laws - no pushing before the ball comes in (removes the hit which causes so many collapses) and putting the ball in straight and bob's your uncle.

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Post by damage_13 Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:34 am

it means sweet FA if they don't put the ball in straight, because all you have there is three props pushing with no chance to compete for the ball and less chance to get penalties from forcing incorrect pushing or binding.


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Post by Poorfour Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:42 am

damage_13 wrote:it means sweet FA if they don't put the ball in straight, because all you have there is three props pushing with no chance to compete for the ball and less chance to get penalties from forcing incorrect pushing or binding.


I think one of the benefits is that if you eliminate pushing before the ball goes in and minimise the hit, making it easier for props to get a bind, refs will have less to focus on at engagement and will be better able to police the straight put in. The over-emphasis on the hit we have today distorts the scrum, and anything that reverses that can only be a good thing.
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Post by doctor_grey Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:42 am

LondonTiger wrote:If we simply enforce the current laws - no pushing before the ball comes in (removes the hit which causes so many collapses) and putting the ball in straight and bob's your uncle.
methinks this sounds like a trial of the current laws! Along with a few extra details thown in. Good idea. Look forward to see the results.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:46 am

I fully agree with these proposals and I think they should be more widely adopted for the good of the game.
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Post by Brendan Thu 14 Feb 2013, 10:48 am

I think if the ball had to be put in straight it would make the front row focus more on getting the ball then getting a penalty. If props had to focus more on keeping their hooker up so he can get the ball (it seems apart from Hartley we rarely see Hooker pinged.

All the scrum seems to be is the two opposing props in a one armed wrestle trying to get the other person to the ground and get the pen.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Thu 14 Feb 2013, 11:06 am

Poorfour wrote:
damage_13 wrote:it means sweet FA if they don't put the ball in straight, because all you have there is three props pushing with no chance to compete for the ball and less chance to get penalties from forcing incorrect pushing or binding.


I think one of the benefits is that if you eliminate pushing before the ball goes in and minimise the hit, making it easier for props to get a bind, refs will have less to focus on at engagement and will be better able to police the straight put in. The over-emphasis on the hit we have today distorts the scrum, and anything that reverses that can only be a good thing.

+1.

The biggest factor in any scrum being stable is props being able to bind. The speed and force of the hit at the highest level combined with ridiculously tight shirts the front row now sport just make it a lottery half the time, particularly for the LH who doesn't generally have the option of (illegally) binding on his opponents arm. If they don't get a good bind, the shoulders smash into each other and the scrum goes down. Anything that starts the process of reversing this nonsense is a good thing. Props will always take scrums down if they are under pressure and can get away with it, that is their birthright, but at least being able to bind properly gives a) the prop getting the nudge on more chance to drive through and b) the poor old referee a chance to at least make a quicker judgement call on who is binding correctly.

I played hooker throughout my teens and early 20's and, granted this was back in the sequential binding days, the amount of re-set scrums was tiny. A few per game at most and that was normally down to nefarious tight-heads and not an unstable scrum. At international level, the situation is completely reversed. We now have a few scrums per game that are contested correctly from the first engagement. Most of them hit the deck before the fat-boys get a go at pushing each other. This is the cream of the sport and is currently a terrible advertisement for potential players, fans and worried parents who quiver at the thought of their kids playing 1 to 3. Hookers might actually revert back to being hookers as well, rather than auxiliary props who can throw a ball into a lineout.

Putting the ball in straight and no-pushing before it is fed are more more easy for a referee to enforce when the impact of the front rows isn't 100 miles per hour with the force of a herd of elephants. Give the props a chance to bind, the scrums will be more stable and the rest should be easy......

Mind the windows Tino.
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