UFC 160

Apparently UFC 160 has Cain vs Silva rematch & JDS vs Overeem as the main support. Dana feels Silva deserves it as had Overeem won he would have got the fight. I see the winner of JDS vs Overeem getting the next shot. If Cain wins again it either sets up a rubber match with JDS or what was a hugely anticipated fight with Overeem which despite him getting ko'd is still a good fight. Whatever the outcome of both fights the winners & losers can pair off for 2 more decent fights. Thoughts?

I'm not so sure about overeem now, ok he has awesome kickboxing skills thats not in question but after the drugs ban, and the knockout v silva i feel his aura has been shattered.

Let us remember when with a heavy handed opponent thats basically what silva is, he coward. You can beef up all the muscle you want but not on his chin. So i wouldnt be suprised if JDS beats him, then you think perhaps carwin would trouble him unless he could last the first round!!
The division is much deep quality in the ufc so do see some potential struggles for him in the future

sounds like a good card! Looking forward to Overeem v JDS.

They say its harder to keep the belt then win it and this is especially true of the heavyweight division (we'll conveniently skip over middle weight and light-heavyweight for now ). Silva will be out to avenge his loss and win the title so will be extremely motivated to face Velasquez. Velasquez too will know that anything less than a devestating TKO again and his aura as X2 heavyweight champ will begin to diminish. Cain theoretically should retain comfortably, but as Silva showed he has heart and as they say in the heavyweight division everyone has KO power!

boomdangle wrote:I'm not so sure about overeem now, ok he has awesome kickboxing skills thats not in question but after the drugs ban, and the knockout v silva i feel his aura has been shattered.

Let us remember when with a heavy handed opponent thats basically what silva is, he coward. You can beef up all the muscle you want but not on his chin. So i wouldnt be suprised if JDS beats him, then you think perhaps carwin would trouble him unless he could last the first round!!
The division is much deep quality in the ufc so do see some potential struggles for him in the future

So so true.

Its going to be interesting to see the effect this defeat has on him although its not the first time he's had to rebuild himself. I feel his arrogance/ overconfidence, his underestimating of Silva, not keeping his hands up were the reasons he lost & hopefully he has learned from this.

Not so sure about Carwin, yes he's heavy handed but that's about it, I don't think he's that skilled when it comes to standup/striking, Overeem should be able to keep him at distance picking him off with his superior kickboxing, look at his fight with JDS he was made to look awful.

talkingpoint wrote:They say its harder to keep the belt then win it and this is especially true of the heavyweight division (we'll conveniently skip over middle weight and light-heavyweight for now ). Silva will be out to avenge his loss and win the title so will be extremely motivated to face Velasquez. Velasquez too will know that anything less than a devestating TKO again and his aura as X2 heavyweight champ will begin to diminish. Cain theoretically should retain comfortably, but as Silva showed he has heart and as they say in the heavyweight division everyone has KO power!

I don't really agree with this as along as he beats Silva fairly ie no dodgy judges, favorable refs, illegal strikes etc it doesn't matter how he wins. In Boxing there is a saying styles make fights and Evander holyfield gets a lot of credit as a x3 or x4 champ, as being a former cruiserweight aside, he usually found a way to win, ground out those victories, avenged a few losses mostly against bigger men. Also in the first fight Silva made a huge mistake & Cain capitalised on it, he wont make that mistake again & will be well prepared.

there is always pressure on heavyweight champs to deliver the spectacular KO, that's why Dana/UFC always take about the heavyweight champ being the "baddest man on the planet" - it goes with the territory.

That's just Dana & his hype train. All fighters at all weights have to deliver whether its a spectacular ko or clearly outpointing an opponent. GSP's often safety first approach has kept him top 3 p4p & earned him huge amounts while still having a good fanbase. Like in Boxing often the best fighters arn't at HW. In boxing the top name p4p is Mayweather WW, with no 2 quite possibly Donaire SBW or Ward SMW. As for the HW's the Klitchko's have been at the top for almost a decade often boring people with their safety first approach against often over matched opponents but they are earning well & filling out football stadiums in Germany.

GSP is a great example - he may be in the P4P top 5 but people no longer consider him in the same league as Silva or even Jones because he doesn't finish opponents. Yes every champ has the weight of expectation to put on entertaining and impressive fights but the heavyweights have always been singled out for their KO power. You think about the lower weight classes, there are very few KO's; this doesn't make the fights boring because their other athletic qualities come to the fore. No-one expects heavyweights to have the cardio of a flyweight or bantam weight, but what they do expect is aggression and vicious TKOs. Take Brock Lesnar, never in a million years would he be in the P4P list but because of his vicious G&P and freakish strength and speed for a heavyweight he was always going to make headlines and be the poster boy for the UFC. Cain will definitely want to do the same. No fighter truly wants to leave it in the judges hands.

talkingpoint wrote:GSP is a great example - he may be in the P4P top 5 but people no longer consider him in the same league as Silva or even Jones because he doesn't finish opponents. Yes every champ has the weight of expectation to put on entertaining and impressive fights but the heavyweights have always been singled out for their KO power. You think about the lower weight classes, there are very few KO's; this doesn't make the fights boring because their other athletic qualities come to the fore. No-one expects heavyweights to have the cardio of a flyweight or bantam weight, but what they do expect is aggression and vicious TKOs. Take Brock Lesnar, never in a million years would he be in the P4P list but because of his vicious G&P and freakish strength and speed for a heavyweight he was always going to make headlines and be the poster boy for the UFC. Cain will definitely want to do the same. No fighter truly wants to leave it in the judges hands.

I think its unnesesscery pressure on the HW's to deliver ko's & tko's as there is no proof that p4p they hit harder than the guys at lower weights nor is there proof they can't be cardio machines either. Look at boxing, especially the last 10 years there are very few devastating punchers at HW, a division that over the years has actually produced fighters with some of the best jabs in boxing history & very good cardio and hand speed, Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier & Ali spring to mind. Also in the last 12 months the best ko's have actually come from the lower weights, Doniare, J M Marquez, Mathysse. In his day Naseem Hamed fighting from BW, SBW & FW weight had incredible power, & recently Amir Khan has been on the wrong end of some good ko's. I don't see that MMA should be looked at deferently especially when you see such poor boxing & kickboxing technique, no wonder so many wrestlers look for a takedown then ground & pound.

MMA is different from boxing though, boxers of all weight classes can work on punch power because boxing only uses fists offensively, whereas in MMA punch power is reduced by grappling and having to work at takedown defences and BJJ. At the end of the day MMA is a combat sport and primarily for entertainment, which is why the UFC hype machine invests in promoting explosive and dangerous fighters and rewards positive tactics in the sub, KO and fight of the night bonuses.

talkingpoint wrote:MMA is different from boxing though, boxers of all weight classes can work on punch power because boxing only uses fists offensively, whereas in MMA punch power is reduced by grappling and having to work at takedown defences and BJJ. At the end of the day MMA is a combat sport and primarily for entertainment, which is why the UFC hype machine invests in promoting explosive and dangerous fighters and rewards positive tactics in the sub, KO and fight of the night bonuses.

So therefore we can't expect that many ko's or tko's from punches at HW's! Even though I can except there are differences in boxing & MMA it does put unfair pressure on the champ in MMA, something that isn't the case in boxing. Also your HW's ko power compared to lower weights is not true as I said with regards to boxing we've not really seen a true ko artist at HW since Tyson where as there appears to have been many in boxing history from the lower weights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQF-Q9BeLAw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JxaN-ilJ-Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfZtHuE2MJU

not exactly, MMA uses much lighter gloves than boxing, so there is less protection, which has been used as a reason why there have been so many TKOs in MMA. I don't dispute lower weight classes are capable of TKOs, I just said they aren't known for it. When I think of say the UFC flyweight, bantamweight and featherweights I see champions who regularly have 5 round fights - Demitrious Johnson won his last two title fights by decision, Dominick Cruz's last four wins have come by decision, 3 of 4 of Jose Aldo's UFC fights he's won by decision with his only TKO coming via knee strike rather than fist.

Neither do I dispute that its undue or unfair pressure put upon the HWs to deliver spectacular KOs but the majority of casual fight fans only tune in to watch the heavyweights. UFC PPV sales would decrease massively if the sport wasn't exciting. The HWs therefore are in many ways the flagbearers for the sport because they give the sport the greatest exposure. UFC's debut on FOX was headlined by Velasquez v JDS because even though it wasn't a PPV it was the first mainstream exposure of the UFC, so what would normally have been a PPV worthy fight was shown on TV for free to draw in more fans!

I think there has been a turn in the tide in recent years in MMA that the fighters themselves are better trained & more well rounded than in the past and that they are looking for the win in a more safety first approach than before. An ex fighter, I forget who now, said he felt there were a lot more athletes going into MMA now rather than fighters in the early days. Money is on the increase and as Dana points out its not just the fight purse that the guys receive, who also says look how the top tier are living nowadays, life of luxury. An unbeaten record leads to a title fight, win that you are on the road to riches, this is what is leading to a safety first approach and why Dana is urging the ko's & tko's. I think he is worried about ppv sales but as we the veiwer become more knowledgeble we appreciate more of the skills that are in MMA & the way they are used. Yes everybody loves a ko but we also like a good tear up for 3 or 5 rounds. Johnson & Aldos fights have been great to watch as have Condits & Rory Macdonalds.

Strange though that in Boxing we are seeing a lot of the best ko's & tko's in fights below MW rather than above. Bigger doesn't equate to stronger or harder hitting in this instance.

I love the lighter weight classes, there are some excellent martial artists and some great fights. Having knowledgable fans is important and I think this is why GSP is still a big draw because his skill and technique is appreciated. However, GSP is under pressure to finish his opponents and I fear if he can't finish Nick Diaz with all the animosity he feels towards him he's going to come under a lot of criticism. GSP's humility and sportsmanship has protected him but his impending fight with Diaz is personal and he's been very vocal about his disdain for him. If he doesn't fight with the kind of passion and aggression expected in him people will ask questions.

I hear you with regards to this fight but don't hold your breath on GSP stopping Diaz, why break a habit of a recent Lifetime! I'm sure GSP is aware of the sometime negative press he receives but I don't think he cares, he's more interested in staying unbeaten, having the cash come in & the hope of a fight with Silva as well as cementing his legacy. How do you see this fight going, is there more to Diaz than the hype that seems to surround him?

Bad as it sounds I almost hate HW's in combat sports! There just seems to be to many big lumps who lack skills in boxing, kickboxing & mma but of course its not the case 100% But does go to show why the K bros have ruled HW boxing for almost a decade.

it's a tough one to call for me, whenever you get alot of animosity the first round tends to be cagey because no-one wants to make the first mistake and look foolish. Big talk requires big actions. I believe GSP will want to finish the fight on a personal level but professionally he definitely just wants to win and keep his unbeaten streak. That's what makes this fight so intriguing. Diaz in some ways is the perfect opponent for GSP to test his P4P credentials - arguably the best boxer in the welterweight division, BJJ black belt with superb cardio. Condit almost got the TKO against GSP, albeit it was GSP's comeback fight but Diaz will definitely believe he can beat GSP. It will also be a test of GSP's mental strength as Diaz wages psychological warfare in the octagon. Any victory over Diaz, whether decision or finish is a great accomplishment but what a statement GSP will make if he finally ends his recent decision over finish run against Diaz; it definitely sets up a super fight with Silva perfectly!