Ireland Squad announced for France (O'Gara Axed)

by UlstermaninGlasgow Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:04 pm

Squad:
Rory Best
Sean Cronin
Robbie Diack
Keith Earls
Luke Fitzgerald
Declan Fitzpatrick
Craig Gilroy
Cian Healy
Jamie Heaslip
Iain Henderson
Paddy Jackson
Dave Kilcoyne
Dave Kearney
Rob Kearney
Ian Madigan
Luke Marshall
Mike McCarthy
Fergus McFadden
Connor Murray
Sean O'Brien
Donncha O'Callaghan
Tommy O'Donnell
Brian O'Driscoll
Peter O'Mahony
Eoin O'Malley
Eoin Reddan
Mike Ross
Donnacha Ryan
Johnathan Sexton
Andrew Trimble
Devin Toner
Dan Tuohy

No ROG...... Shocked

O'Malley, Tuohy, Diack, D Kearney and Trimble all called up
Court and Stevenson drop out

by Golden Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:19 pm

Great news. Presume theres little chance of Sexton been fit?

If not looks like Madigan will make his first Irish team. Yahoo

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:22 pm

Bit weird that Court starts over Kilcoyne but is dropped out altogether when Healy is back.

Cave and Henshaw both have picked up knocks to the head- mandatory concussion guidelines necessitate their absence.

So...

HOOKER
Rory Best, Sean Cronin
PROP
Cian Healy, Dave Kilcoyne, Mike Ross, Declan Fitzpatrick
LOCK
Mike McCarthy, Donnacha Ryan, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner, Donncha O'Callaghan
BACKROW
Peter O'Mahony, Iain Henderson, Sean O'Brien, Tommy O'Donnell, Robbie Diack, Jamie Heaslip
SCRUM HALF
Conor Murray, Eoin Reddan
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, Ian Madigan, Johnny Sexton*
CENTRE
Luke Marshall, Fergus McFadden, Eoin O'Malley, Brian O'Driscoll
BACK THREE
Craig Gilroy, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald, Andrew Trimble, Rob Kearney, Dave Kearney

*Injury doubt.

It's two teams of 15 + 2. An extra outhalf and an extra lock. Sexton is an injury doubt, I assume that means one of the locks is an injury doubt? Maybe McCarthy?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:22 pm

by Golden Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:25 pm

How do you feel about this Pete I cant quite tell?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:27 pm

Now that I have that out of my system:

1) Delighted ROG is out and more so that Madigan is in. VERY positive.

2) Odd that Kidney has included all those injury doubts I thought McCarthy and Sexto were all ruled out.

3) Court dropping out isn't hugely wise IMO, I thought he was doing better than Kilcoyne. I'd have Kilcoyne and Court both in the squad.

4) Hopefully Touhy (a lineout caller) will come on to the bench

5) Diack, O'Malley and Kearney Jr all very unusual calls.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:29 pm

I'd say this is the team;

1) Cian Healy
2) Rory Best
3) Mike Ross
4) Donncha O'Callaghan
5) Donnacha Ryan
6) Peter O'Mahony
7) Sean O'Brien
8) Jamie Heaslip (c)
9) Conor Murray
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Keith Earls
12) Luke Marshall
13) Brian O'Driscoll
14) Craig Gilroy
15) Rob Kearney

And this... for the purposes of this week... is France.

1) Dave Kilcoyne
2) Sean Cronin
3) Declan Fitzpatrick
4) Dan Tuohy
5) Devin Toner
6) Iain Henderson
7) Tommy O'Donnell
8) Robbie Diack
9) Eoin Reddan
10) Ian Madigan
11) Luke Fitzgerald
12) Fergus McFadden
13) Eoin O'Malley
14) Andrew Trimble
15) Dave Kearney

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:29 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:5) Diack, O'Malley and Kearney Jr all very unusual calls.

Cave and Henshaw both have concussion apparently.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:31 pm

Notch wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:5) Diack, O'Malley and Kearney Jr all very unusual calls.

Cave and Henshaw both have concussion apparently.

Sucks for the pair of them, Henshaw in particular I think could have been in there ahead of O'Malley or Kearney in fairness.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:33 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Notch wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:5) Diack, O'Malley and Kearney Jr all very unusual calls.

Cave and Henshaw both have concussion apparently.

Sucks for the pair of them, Henshaw in particular I think could have been in there ahead of O'Malley or Kearney in fairness.

Yeah, they both had to withdraw unfortunately. It's a mandatory thing with concussion- a few weeks off.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:38 pm

Notch wrote:I'd say this is the team;

1) Cian Healy
2) Rory Best
3) Mike Ross
4) Donncha O'Callaghan
5) Donnacha Ryan
6) Peter O'Mahony
7) Sean O'Brien
8) Jamie Heaslip (c)
9) Conor Murray
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Keith Earls
12) Luke Marshall
13) Brian O'Driscoll
14) Craig Gilroy
15) Rob Kearney

And this... for the purposes of this week... is France.

1) Dave Kilcoyne
2) Sean Cronin
3) Declan Fitzpatrick
4) Dan Tuohy
5) Devin Toner
6) Iain Henderson
7) Tommy O'Donnell
8) Robbie Diack
9) Eoin Reddan
10) Ian Madigan
11) Luke Fitzgerald
12) Fergus McFadden
13) Eoin O'Malley
14) Andrew Trimble
15) Dave Kearney

Those two teams look pretty good in my eyes, especially when you add in absentees like Strauss, POC, Ferris, Henry, Sexton, Darcy, Bowe

by Sin é Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:39 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Real classy Pete.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:39 pm

Notch wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Notch wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:5) Diack, O'Malley and Kearney Jr all very unusual calls.

Cave and Henshaw both have concussion apparently.

Sucks for the pair of them, Henshaw in particular I think could have been in there ahead of O'Malley or Kearney in fairness.

Yeah, they both had to withdraw unfortunately. It's a mandatory thing with concussion- a few weeks off.

It sucks for them but it is a good and important addition to the game.

by UlstermaninGlasgow Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:41 pm

Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Real classy Pete.

I'd assume this was for Madigan getting included rather than O'Gara's dropping...

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:45 pm

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:
Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Real classy Pete.

I'd assume this was for Madigan getting included rather than O'Gara's dropping...

You would assume correct sir.

by majesticimperialman Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:46 pm

Is it not surprising that O'gara has been dropped. After last weeks performance, i would of been very surprised if he had kept his place to be honest.

by Sin é Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:49 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:
Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote: yahoo:

Real classy Pete.

I'd assume this was for Madigan getting included rather than O'Gara's dropping...

You would assume correct sir.

Can you provide the link to the post you made showing your excitement when Madigan made the extended squad for the Scotland game?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:51 pm

This is completely different. He has now moved up the pecking order and if Sexton is not fit then Madigan could well be winning his first cap in Dublin in 6 days.

Don't make it about something it isn't old chap

by Sin é Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:52 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Is it not surprising that O'gara has been dropped. After last weeks performance, i would of been very surprised if he had kept his place to be honest.

It is actually. Its only the extended training squad, not the 23 match day squad.

by JmD Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:52 pm

Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:
Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote: yahoo:

Real classy Pete.

I'd assume this was for Madigan getting included rather than O'Gara's dropping...

You would assume correct sir.

Can you provide the link to the post you made showing your excitement when Madigan made the extended squad for the Scotland game?

You mean when he was called up late with no chance of making the final squad? There probably wasn't quite that same feeling.

by GoodinTightSpaces Sun 03 Mar 2013, 6:58 pm

right call but a sad end it looks to a great ireland career

by Sin é Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:04 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:This is completely different. He has now moved up the pecking order and if Sexton is not fit then Madigan could well be winning his first cap in Dublin in 6 days.

Don't make it about something it isn't old chap

Your 'yahoo' post is way over the top for someone who MIGHT get a cap IF Sexton is not fit.

Chances are that Sexton will be fit and he is there holding the tackle bags instead of ROG.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:12 pm

I hear the opposite sunshine, I hear that Sexton won't be playing versus France.

Either way that is the way I feel so get over it. I'm delighted for Madigan, absolutely thrilled. Can only imagine what Gibbo is feeling currently! Very Happy

Who know's Madigan MIGHT start

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:13 pm

Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:This is completely different. He has now moved up the pecking order and if Sexton is not fit then Madigan could well be winning his first cap in Dublin in 6 days.

Don't make it about something it isn't old chap

Your 'yahoo' post is way over the top for someone who MIGHT get a cap IF Sexton is not fit.

Chances are that Sexton will be fit and he is there holding the tackle bags instead of ROG.

Sour grapes Sin?

Don't think Madigan has a chance of starting Sin. 1st cap off the bench I'd say!

by Sin é Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:20 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I hear the opposite sunshine, I hear that Sexton won't be playing versus France.

Either way that is the way I feel so get over it. I'm delighted for Madigan, absolutely thrilled. Can only imagine what Gibbo is feeling currently!

Who know's Madigan MIGHT start

IRFU press release says:

There are three out-halves included with recent debutant Paddy Jackson and the uncapped Ian Madigan joining Jonathan Sexton in the training panel.

The other uncapped players involved are Leinster duo David Kearney and Eoin O'Malley, Ulster's Robbie Diack and Tommy O'Donnell of Munster, with Diack's provincial colleagues, Dan Tuohy and Andrew Trimble, also drafted in.

A full medical update will take place tomorrow at the Ireland team media session at 1pm, but none of the 32 members of the squad have been ruled out of contention for selection against France.

by Sin é Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:23 pm

Notch wrote:

Sour grapes Sin?

Don't think Madigan has a chance of starting Sin. 1st cap off the bench I'd say!

No. Just struggle to believe someone could get that excited about someone making an extended training squad.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:24 pm

Oh god Sin picard

by UlstermaninGlasgow Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:29 pm

Mick Kearney himself (the Irish Team Manager) said this week that Sexton is less than 50/50 to make the France game. So there's a high chance that Jackson will start with Madigan on the bench...

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:36 pm

Soooooo.........

Madigan or Jackson to start?
Strengths and weaknesses of each?

Could Madigan start?

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:43 pm

ROG is gone. A year too late, but better late than never. DOC, POC, Darcy and BOD will hopefully follow suit in due course. Now lets hope Kidney falls on his sword after this 6-N and also follows suit. He is trying to alter it all, far too late, to save his job. I hope the IRFU and fans dont fall for it.

When he goes, we can start planning for the RWC in earnest and with some hope.

Happy enough with the initial squad.

by Golden Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:44 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Soooooo.........

Madigan or Jackson to start?
Strengths and weaknesses of each?

Could Madigan start?

I think it would be better to stick with Jackson. Will do him no good to be dropped after one game. Especially since he played fairly well

by Feckless Rogue Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:46 pm

Doesn't seem right to be too happy about the end of someone's international career. Although I've wanted younger players in for quite a while. You have to salute ROG's legacy to Irish rugby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur6ze5icKnA

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:48 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Soooooo.........

Madigan or Jackson to start?
Strengths and weaknesses of each?

Could Madigan start?

Ive rated Johnny Sexton since he started out. He is the best 10 in Europe now. But I really hope he doesn't make it this weekend. Time to start finding out who is the next man up to challenge him. Jackson. Or Madigan.

Ooooh, I could crush a seedless grape.

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:54 pm

Golden wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Soooooo.........

Madigan or Jackson to start?
Strengths and weaknesses of each?

Could Madigan start?

I think it would be better to stick with Jackson. Will do him no good to be dropped after one game. Especially since he played fairly well

Totally agree. Paddy J is the man in situ. Let's all back him now. As one.

I'm just happy that as another part of the Golden Era has ended... a new one begins in earnest

Not gloating Feckless. Just relieved. Now for Kidney and all the other spent aulfellas to follow suit.

Its time. Way beyond time...

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:58 pm

Jackson - Madigan

Defence 7 - 7
Passing 8 - 9
Kicking 8 - 7
Goal Kicking 7 - 8
Control 7 - 6

Is that fair??

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:05 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Jackson - Madigan

Defence 7 - 7
Passing 8 - 9
Kicking 8 - 7
Goal Kicking 7 - 8
Control 7 - 6

Is that fair??

What will be fair, is if they are both given a chance next Saturday. We have no idea how it will pan out. But I will say this, we need to be patient with them. Give them the time to feic up and come back stronger for it. This is our country here. Not our provinces.

I am really looking forward to going back to Dublin this weekend now. I was fast losing interest tbh.

Believe.

by Morgannwg Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:16 pm

1) Cian Healy
2) Rory Best
3) Mike Ross
4) Donncha O'Callaghan
5) Donnacha Ryan
6) Peter O'Mahony
7) Sean O'Brien
8) Jamie Heaslip (c)
9) Eoin Reddan
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Andrew Trimble
12) Luke Marshall
13) Brian O'Driscoll
14) Craig Gilroy
15) Rob Kearney

16) Cronin, 17) Kilcoyne, 18) Fitzpatrick, 19) Toner, 20) Henderson 21) Murray, 22) Madigan, 23) D.Kearney/Earls.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:17 pm

Is Madigan as good a defender as Jackson?

I would see Jackson as a better kicker from hand, decision maker and defender. Madigan has a better running game and a slicker pass.

But I wouldn't say there is a big difference in goal kicking, just Paddy hasn't had the same run of games to establish himself as a kicker. Right now Jackson is ahead for me as he's got a better head for decision making on his shoulders. If my pack is going forward at a rate of knots or your chasing the game, Madigan is yer man to make something happen.

Delighted we're going to see them both in the squad most likely.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:34 pm

Nit picking here, but can't understand how EOM and Diack have got a call up. EOM has barely even played this season for Leinster and when he has played he has looked totally rusty, which is understandable. Surely Griffon who has hit form again deserves that spot.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:34 pm

Gibson wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Jackson - Madigan

Defence 7 - 7
Passing 8 - 9
Kicking 8 - 7
Goal Kicking 7 - 8
Control 7 - 6

Is that fair??

What will be fair, is if they are both given a chance next Saturday. We have no idea how it will pan out. But I will say this, we need to be patient with them. Give them the time to feic up and come back stronger for it. This is our country here. Not our provinces.

I am really looking forward to going back to Dublin this weekend now. I was fast losing interest tbh.

Believe.

Completely agree with the bolded part

by theslosty Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:49 pm

Notch wrote:Is Madigan as good a defender as Jackson?
The stats suggest they are both equally competent in defence. Jackson has made 88% of his tackles this season, Madigan 87%.

I would see Jackson as a better kicker from hand, decision maker and defender. Madigan has a better running game and a slicker pass.
All three of those points are pretty debatable. Jackson, in fairness at the tender age of 21, has lacked composure in major HC games and whilst he utilised his runners well last week, again he appeared very nervous.

But I wouldn't say there is a big difference in goal kicking, just Paddy hasn't had the same run of games to establish himself as a kicker.
Be fair, Madigan, unlike Jackson, is not the starting 10 for his province but still has a fairly respectable success rate of 84% in the Pro12 this season. Jackson, who held the Ulster kicking responsibilities for a run of games, scores 75% in the same competition, and I doubt his HC stats are any better.

Right now Jackson is ahead for me as he's got a better head for decision making on his shoulders. If my pack is going forward at a rate of knots or your chasing the game, Madigan is yer man to make something happen.

Delighted we're going to see them both in the squad most likely.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:52 pm

It's not tackle completion I'd judge by, its the efficiency of that tackle.

by Golden Sun 03 Mar 2013, 9:01 pm

Im not sure who is the better tackler but for relatively small men I cant remember seen either been exposed too much in defence.

by **Notch** Sun 03 Mar 2013, 9:07 pm

Golden wrote:Im not sure who is the better tackler but for relatively small men I cant remember seen either been exposed too much in defence.

I think Jackson is small but nuggety. Have been impressed to see him rip balls away in the tackle, assist in turnovers through choke tackle etc.

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 9:10 pm

Christ, the Irish posting youngfellas debating the strengths and weaknesses of their Irish provincial youngfellas. And them all still only schittin-yella. And ROG's career demise still warm in its grave. It makes me smile.

But its so healthy. I'm all for it. Always have been. Bring on the youff!

I'm so happy right now. Just wish I didn't have to wait for this, for so long.

Move over Sexton, you old codger. The new kids on the block want your crown.

Same goes for BOD, POC, DOC and Darcy. It will soon be all up for grabs. This is all I ever wanted when Kidney took the job. Thank Allah for injuries, otherwise, we would still be 3/4 years behind the rest of the Rugby World. I Love it. Its kismet. Its karma.

by logie28 Sun 03 Mar 2013, 9:11 pm

Wouldnt like to right off POC or even BOD yet despite their injuries Gibbo. Just as we shouldnt hold players back because they are young, we shouldnt discard players because they are old, let their play dictate their use.

While ROG is clearly long well past it, I have yet to witness a drop off in the performances of BOD and POC when fit to justify the notion that they are done. We need to use every resource we have to the fullest, from the youngest to the oldest.

by red_stag Sun 03 Mar 2013, 9:12 pm

Whether Madigan is better than Jackson is not relevant.

No good can come of dropping Jackson for an uncapped player after giving him 60 minutes of rugby.

As someone else mentioned on this very thread we need to allow these new players time to make mistakes.

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 9:57 pm

logie28 wrote:Wouldnt like to right off POC or even BOD yet despite their injuries Gibbo. Just as we shouldnt hold players back because they are young, we shouldnt discard players because they are old, let their play dictate their use.

While ROG is clearly long well past it, I have yet to witness a drop off in the performances of BOD and POC when fit to justify the notion that they are done. We need to use every resource we have to the fullest, from the youngest to the oldest.

I don't need to write BOD off. Unlike ROG, he will know when it is time. He will make that call himself. POC,like Ferris, can no longer be relied upon. They have been walking injuries for 2 years now. Ergo, put their replacements in place now and back them. We have made this mistake with practically every single one of the failed Golden Generation. Held on to them way past their international sell-by date.

Time be ruthless. This is a pro game now. No time for sentiment.

England did it. Wales did it. New Zealand always did it.

Do we see a pattern here?

Jeezuz, Im getting tired saying this for years.

by Gibson Sun 03 Mar 2013, 10:02 pm

red_stag wrote:Whether Madigan is better than Jackson is not relevant.

No good can come of dropping Jackson for an uncapped player after giving him 60 minutes of rugby.

As someone else mentioned on this very thread we need to allow these new players time to make mistakes.

A Voice of reason and logic.

by red_stag Sun 03 Mar 2013, 10:06 pm

Gibson,

O'Driscoll won't call it a day for the same reason that O'Gara won't.

He would lose so much money without his IRFU contract. Most players nowadays simply keep playing until the body wont let them as this is their livelihood and main source of income.

However much Drico or ROG would get doing the rounds as after dinner speakers or appearing on RTE it isnt a patch on what they currently make.

We need a coach who is willing to make big calls and make the decision for them.

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