Scotland's permanent coach

First topic message reminder :

Scott Johnson has produced an interesting set of results and has the player's backing and I reckon that if Scotland win on Saturday the SRU will sign him up forever but is this the right decision?
I personally think that wins over a very poor Italy side and an injury ravaged Ireland team have papered over a few cracks, in fact I believe this team should be beating a second class Ireland team by more than four points on the other hand the same Italy side only lost by seven to England and the Ireland team drew with France. I do not doubt that it has been an improvement and we have clearly missed a true open side, despite this I think Johnson should be kept as backs coach and if possible Ryan as forwards coach but I'd like somebody new to oversee things.

However finding somebody to coach the team may be difficult, there are very few candidates, Robbie Deans may be available if the Lions win in the summer, Gregor Townsend will be mentioned if Glasgow win but I think he should be allowed to keep control of Glasgow for five years and try to push towards Heineken cup progress before he can be linked with Scotland aside from that there are very few candidates.

Exactly Bsando - absolutely nothing to do with DNA.

And p.s. we don't all eat deep fried mars bars! Agreed about weather though - currently a sleet storm in Edinburgh and 2 degrees

Scrumdown wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:One of the many, many ways you are discrediting yourself is that - if you are correct - you are suggesting the DNA of Scottish people has changed so much in the past 20 years that Scotland cannot produce top level sportsmen and women anymore. Indeed our DNA was good enough in 1999 to win the 5N but it has gone so downhill from then that - as you put it - it doesn't matter who our coach is because we are genetically inferior.

If you are trotting out top level sportsmen operating at the highest level then let me do ours:

Sir Chris Hoy
Andy Murray
Kathryn Granger
Michael Jamieson


Now the key thing with them is that they have Scottish DNA but spent most of their sporting life training and playing outwith the country - Hoy in Manchester at a top level sports center, Murray learnt his tennis in Spain, Michael Jamieson swims at a top level center in Bath.

And herein lies my final point - you're clearly confused at the difference between nature and nurture. The named sports people show that Scottish DNA can produce sportsmen at the highest level - but the key thing is that they have been able to train and nurture at the right place, and with the right people.

Cycling is an elitist sport where success has more to do with investment in the bike etc than talent.

Murray is a one off in a minority sport which is also elitist.

I also note that the scots you mention are all white and middle class. There is no diversity in the gene pool.

You clearly know less about cycling than you do about genetics. Please go and make this statement on the track cycling section of www.lfgss.com (a forum dedicated to track bicycles) the amount of popcorn and flaming that this would generate could possibly cause the interwebz to implode. Chris Hoy has enough power in his legs that he generates 700+ Newton meters of torque (compared to a Ferrari F430 which produces 400-500 NM torque). This has nothing whatsoever to do with the bike he uses, in track cycling the difference in bikes accounts for fractions of a second in terms of aerodynamics however personal preference also plays a part and some cyclists cannot get on with parts and will get better results with less good parts.

Well at least we now know if we didnt b4 that scrumdown wasn't blessed with much up top

Must be in the genes

alive555 wrote:Well at least we now know if we didnt b4 that scrumdown wasn't blessed with much up top

Must be in the genes

Trading insults is just boring, infantile and lazy and will not be tolerated by the moderators.

Maybe you should try and offer an alternative reason for the poor performance of the scottish football and rugby teams at international level bearing in mind the success of samoa (population 108k, with limited finance).

Scrumdown

Before I get off to watch the rugby, and whilst I am yet to view your answer to the topic of genetic migration as opposed to your cut and paste google attempt

Tell the forum if your argument that mixing the gene pool to produce the "world class"

Colin Jacksons
Joe Calzaghes
Ryan Giggs

Its fairly obvious from your analysis that Wales and the such must have a consistent mix over the last what 50 yrs, then WHY OH WHY havent they produced a consistent and further

Colin Jacksons
Joe Calzaghes
Ryan Giggs

I havent seen one since

Explain

Just to further put you in the mire, Samoa have per capita more investment in sports than Scotland over the last three years.

I will refrain from trading insults, as I will give you the benefit of the doubt

Awaiting your educated response fellar

Also waiting for an intelligent response on your claim that wales have genetic diversity based on naming 3 people and the proof that all Scottish sports people have no immigrant DNA in their makeup and proof that Scottish people have inferior DNA to English, Irish and Welsh people...

Guys could we just ignore him. He is obviously trolling for whatever reason. Biltong, other mods, you should have swung the banhammer on this clown by now.

I'm not normally one to call for bans, but we can't really allow someone to argue that a particular race or nationality are genetically deficient, can we? Am I wrong?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also waiting for an intelligent response on your claim that wales have genetic diversity based on naming 3 people and the proof that all Scottish sports people have no immigrant DNA in their makeup and proof that Scottish people have inferior DNA to English, Irish and Welsh people...

It is not about inferior genes, just genes that do not produce outstanding athletes. The england rugby team has a couple of tongans, and a samoan amongst its squad so it is benefiting from immigration. Likewise wales has toby faletau.

Gareth Bale is an example of someone who is genetically blessed. Where is the scottish Bale?

To put it bluntly I suspect that too much inbreeding is having a negative effect on the athletic ability of the scots.

Alex salmond has already called for more immigration into scotland and therefore in 20 years we may see the children of those immigrants helping scotland on the international stage. I for one hope so because as a fellow celt I want to see scotland doing well.

Where's the Scottish Bale?

Where's the Welsh Andy Murray?

Scrumdown wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:One of the many, many ways you are discrediting yourself is that - if you are correct - you are suggesting the DNA of Scottish people has changed so much in the past 20 years that Scotland cannot produce top level sportsmen and women anymore. Indeed our DNA was good enough in 1999 to win the 5N but it has gone so downhill from then that - as you put it - it doesn't matter who our coach is because we are genetically inferior.

If you are trotting out top level sportsmen operating at the highest level then let me do ours:

Sir Chris Hoy
Andy Murray
Kathryn Granger
Michael Jamieson


Now the key thing with them is that they have Scottish DNA but spent most of their sporting life training and playing outwith the country - Hoy in Manchester at a top level sports center, Murray learnt his tennis in Spain, Michael Jamieson swims at a top level center in Bath.

And herein lies my final point - you're clearly confused at the difference between nature and nurture. The named sports people show that Scottish DNA can produce sportsmen at the highest level - but the key thing is that they have been able to train and nurture at the right place, and with the right people.

Cycling is an elitist sport where success has more to do with investment in the bike etc than talent.

Murray is a one off in a minority sport which is also elitist.

I also note that the scots you mention are all white and middle class. There is no diversity in the gene pool.

How is tennis a minority sport or elitist. Who actually gets to decide that? We play it up and down NZ and even though we're hopeless at it we dont consider it minority or especially elitist.

Taylorman wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:One of the many, many ways you are discrediting yourself is that - if you are correct - you are suggesting the DNA of Scottish people has changed so much in the past 20 years that Scotland cannot produce top level sportsmen and women anymore. Indeed our DNA was good enough in 1999 to win the 5N but it has gone so downhill from then that - as you put it - it doesn't matter who our coach is because we are genetically inferior.

If you are trotting out top level sportsmen operating at the highest level then let me do ours:

Sir Chris Hoy
Andy Murray
Kathryn Granger
Michael Jamieson


Now the key thing with them is that they have Scottish DNA but spent most of their sporting life training and playing outwith the country - Hoy in Manchester at a top level sports center, Murray learnt his tennis in Spain, Michael Jamieson swims at a top level center in Bath.

And herein lies my final point - you're clearly confused at the difference between nature and nurture. The named sports people show that Scottish DNA can produce sportsmen at the highest level - but the key thing is that they have been able to train and nurture at the right place, and with the right people.

Cycling is an elitist sport where success has more to do with investment in the bike etc than talent.

Murray is a one off in a minority sport which is also elitist.

I also note that the scots you mention are all white and middle class. There is no diversity in the gene pool.

How is tennis a minority sport or elitist. Who actually gets to decide that? We play it up and down NZ and even though we're hopeless at it we dont consider it minority or especially elitist.

Scrumdown

You gave an example of GARETH BALE as a counter to you poor ill researched initial bigoted onslaught........... Who is white, 100% welsh no diversity there and certainly not lower class

You are quite embarressing, and you are yet to counter the rationale of genetic migration

I say we lock the thread and go back to talking about rugby.

tigertattie wrote:I say we lock the thread and go back to talking about rugby.

Exactly. Ignore him.

I think Johnson will get it because there is no alternative and Scotland don't have the money for a top guy, but personally I think Scotland need to get things off the pitch right first.

So - Scotland cannot finish lower than third in the championship. How good is that for SJ? We need to see this game - Scotland have to open up and try to play some rugby.

Johnson said scotland had come to play some rugby - well they have

I think the point about genetics is a load of rubbish,on our small Island you will find very few people whose Grandparents are all from the same country. This has been the case for thousands of years and the genetics of Scottish, Welsh and Irish people are very similar, a survey carried out showed that a village on the Welsh side of the border had almost identical genetics to Scottish genetics yet a village barely 100 metres away on the English side had very different as a result of the Saxon input. Where you may have a point is that I think some people have a natural ability for Football (Rugby, Association Football etc.) and sports like Hockey, the ability to know when to pass and when to run is something few have, that's why in schools the same people play in the Rugby, Football, Hockey and Cricket.
In Scotland Association Football is the biggest sport and as a result a greater proportion of Scottish kids will get involved in football however Scottish football is in a dire state, the best team's in division three. In Wales Rugby Union is the biggest sport as a result the natural footballers will generally lean towards although of course the Welsh have produced Bale and Giggs, who also played Rugby to a high standard, as a result Welsh players have that natural ability to know when to pass and when not to, such as Tipuric yesterday whereas we are subjected to Nick De Luca's special moments. England has a large population density and so can produce competitive teams in most sports whereas in general countries produce one good sports team, New Zealand's football team hardly sets the world alight.
The Welsh aren't naturally stronger, faster or fitter, they aren't better physical specimens. Nick De Luca is physically strong, he can tackle, kick and pass very well. He has the skills but he doesn't have the natural footballing ability so as a result he gets frustrated and does stupid things. If the SRU did a better job of promoting the game at youth level you'd soon find that Scotland would be very, very strong but at the same time if you implemented a good structure and invested heavily in Luxembourg rugby they'd be very competitive.

Will you please ignore the troll and get back to rugby.

Scotsman saying that Scott Johnson could resign if SRU find a "better coach to replace him".

Interesting read.

Would post a link but seeing as i am a new member, i am not allowed to until next week but go onto Scotsman page and go to Rugby and the article is there.

Welcome Shaun!

That does seem interesting, I personally think it'd be great if we had a different head coach and Scott stayed on as backs coach. I think we could have a pretty good set up if that's the case. Of course this depends on what coach the SRU might've found, although I think it'll likely be Scott Johnson leading for the summer tour. Good call SRU if they've actually dug deep!

Welcome Shaun,

As you can't post it, here's the story:

By DAVID FERGUSON
Published on Monday 18 March 2013 00:00

HEAD coach Scott Johnson is prepared to step down in the wake of Scotland’s best RBS Six Nations finish in seven years, if the SRU have found a better coach to replace him.

Scotland claimed third spot in the tournament for the first time since 2006 and only the third time in the 13-year history of the Six Nations. Under Johnson, and his team of coaches, including the now-departed interim forwards chief Dean Ryan, Scotland also secured back-to-back wins for the first time since 2001, having followed defeat of Italy with a victory over Ireland.

Scottish Rugby Union chief executive Mark Dodson has, however, been scouring the globe for head coach candidates.

Johnson was handed the job of coaching the side for the championship and the June tour to South Africa, following Andy Robinson’s resignation in November. However, after watching his side finish the tournament with a 23-16 defeat to France in Paris on Saturday night Johnson stated that a decision still had to be made on whether he would be in charge for the summer tour.

“It’s been a pretty busy campaign,” he said. “I said when I took on the job we would view it at the end, so I will sit down with the appropriate people.

“My situation hasn’t changed since January. We’ll sit down and talk. We’ve just finished the tournament and we’re feeling a bit of pain. There is a high probability I’ll be involved in the summer tour.

“There are a lot of ifs and buts. If I am to play a part then I will be happy to. I want the best for Scotland. I want Scotland to be a really good rugby nation again.”

One interpretation of that is that the SRU have found a new head coach and that person could take over for the summer tour with Johnson involved to retain continuity.

Johnson signed a contract with the SRU last year to help develop coaches in Scotland through to the 2015 World Cup and could slip back into that role if the SRU are not inclined to offer him the head coach role.

He has done enough in three months in charge to have won the backing of the players, however.

The squad have been instructed to take a diplomatic line in responding to questions about Johnson, and captain Kelly Brown epitomised that when he said: “I’ve really enjoyed working with Scott and I feel, indeed, all of the coaching team is a really good blend.

“I know all of the guys have enjoyed it, but it’s not up to us to make that call.”

However, having missed out due to injury on the chance to captain the team in last year’s tournament, which ended in a whitewash, Brown takes a pride in how the team has found a way to win this year and also feels a sense of responsibility to help to take them further.

He added: “The key difference for me this year was that, when you analyse all five matches, apart from the last 20 minutes against England, we were very much in every game competing, with us knowing and our opposition knowing that we had the potential to win it. That’s not always been the case.

“In saying that, I spoke to the boys after the game and said the same things that I said to them after the autumn – we all need to go away and look at ourselves, work hard to improve our individuals skills and, if we do that, when we meet up for the summer tour we’ll be in a better place.

“It definitely feels much better now than it did in November.We have finished third in the championship and we haven’t done that since 2006, and we’re aware that that is a massive leap forward. But, as a squad, we’re very hungry to keep on improving, and getting better.”

The most influential member of the back division, scrum-half Greig Laidlaw, was rather more effusive in his praise of the coach’s impact.

“Jonno has played a huge part in all of this,” said the Edinburgh player. “He’s made a huge impact because he’s a very good coach, so, hopefully, he will stay on.

“That would be my feelings and I know a lot of the boys feel the same way.

“He’s a great guy and he strikes a good balance between him and Dean [Ryan]. Hopefully the powers that be can sort something out. It’s about building an understanding.

“We don’t want to be working with a new set of coaches when we’re just getting settled with the guys already here. You want consistency and I believe these are the guys to take us forward at this moment in time.”

Johnson has only had brief stints as a head coach in the past, with Wales for three games and the US Eagles for six, and while he has doubled his win tally with Scotland, he may not actually covet the head coach’s position.

Asked if he did want it, he added: “I want to sit down and see the plan for Scotland and where they see I fit. That’s really important.

“I’m not here to delude you, or pretend anything else. 
I really like coaching the boys but I like my old job, too [coaching coaches].

“So I want to make sure I’m a fit for Scotland and they’re a fit for me. There’s nothing wrong with that. I just want to make sure the suit fits.”

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/mckenzie-to-quit-reds-at-end-of-season-20130319-2gbrn.html

Potential candidate? He could be a really good option as he fits in well with current coaches as he worked with Taylor at Reds and I imagine Scott Johnson 2007 world cup.

"Anyone who knows me understands I have strong coaching ambitions and, after spending nine years coaching at a Super Rugby level, I'm excited about pursuing a different role either here or overseas."

I reckon Nick Mallett will get it and would be very happy with that.

Reckon guys like Eddie O'Sullivan, Wayne Smith and Todd Blackadder may be interviewed.

What's John Kirwan up to now because he's not been mentioned by press or supporters?

Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus.

bsando wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/mckenzie-to-quit-reds-at-end-of-season-20130319-2gbrn.html

Potential candidate? He could be a really good option as he fits in well with current coaches as he worked with Taylor at Reds and I imagine Scott Johnson 2007 world cup.

"Anyone who knows me understands I have strong coaching ambitions and, after spending nine years coaching at a Super Rugby level, I'm excited about pursuing a different role either here or overseas."

That article is very interesting and the quotes make it sound like he may already have a job lined up. it will be interesting to see if any announcements are coming soon.

I see that they're getting interested on the Irish threads about the possibility of McKenzie and someone has actually quoted what purports to be a senior source at the IRU who claims that they have already practically (or actually, depending on how you construe it) hired McKenzie.

McKenzie was one of the guys on my 'potential candidates' threads of a couple of months ago.

It's interesting, at the end of the interview he mentions his name has popped up to coach Ireland, but he then goes on to say they haven't spoken to one another.

Also his full name is Ewen James Andrew McKenzie. If we can't have a Scottish coach we could at least have one whose name sounds as if we have.

Also he went to Scotch College, it's a sign I tell you. The planets are aligning

Edinburgh are looking for a new coach....

George Carlin wrote:I see that they're getting interested on the Irish threads about the possibility of McKenzie and someone has actually quoted what purports to be a senior source at the IRU who claims that they have already practically (or actually, depending on how you construe it) hired McKenzie.

McKenzie was one of the guys on my 'potential candidates' threads of a couple of months ago.

Of course it is always a possibility that he will go to Ireland although the way that he has gradually stood aside from his head coach role and then made this announcement means that the IRU have been speaking to him for some time which would surprise me. Mind you if he comes to Scotland it would also mean that the SRU has done something right and we all know how often that happens.

Imperialbigdave wrote:Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus.

Quote of the 6 Nations!

shaun.mahon.9 wrote:What's John Kirwan up to now because he's not been mentioned by press or supporters?

Part of the Lords in control of the (Auckland) Blues. Sir John Kirwan and Sir Graham Henry.

cakeordeath wrote:It's interesting, at the end of the interview he mentions his name has popped up to coach Ireland, but he then goes on to say they haven't spoken to one another.

Also his full name is Ewen James Andrew McKenzie. If we can't have a Scottish coach we could at least have one whose name sounds as if we have.

Also he went to Scotch College, it's a sign I tell you. The planets are aligning

Haha no way! I went to school at the Scotch College in Perth WA. Spooky...

I wonder what would be more appealing - an Irish team full of kids and oldies, or a Scottish team that are lacking in some fundamental basics, in a country that doesn't care about rugby??

9th versus 10th placed in the world rankings RDW, so who knows.

Maybe the strength of the provinces will swing it. Or, and I'm just going out on a limb here, the size of the paycheque may also be significant.

One other thing - for experienced coaches who know their value, a serious undertaking from the McBumferties or the O'Bumferties (delete as applicable) that they'll feic off and not interfere with how the team will be run could also be hugely significant. Creative control should be absolute, or what's the point?

Play it safe. Go to Ireland

That way any players being naughty, like stamping on folk, will have their bans reduced to one game by the IRB (International Irish Rugby Board)

I think Scotland would be more appealing. After all his specialty is taking under performing teams and turning them around. He wouldn't need to do as much with us as he would with Ireland to be deemed a success.

Ireland have a number of options that are in the pot at the monent, not just McKenzie.

The point about McKenzie is that his appointment (as a past forward) wouldn't of itself be the appointment that would have most Irish fans fixated. The real deal would come with who he chose (and if it was him doing the choosing!) as Attack coach!

That's the area Irish fans want sorted out - that's the area that isn't working, that's the area our players would excel at given a real and proven attack coach to work with.

So McKenzie would be just another Kidney (a chooser) until he chose some coaches that would get Ireland moving forward down a field towards the opponents tryline and making the journeys down there count on the scoreboard. If he failed at that task then he'd just be another heavy passenger on the train going nowhere.

Head coach is never the full answer, regardless of who he is.

I can see someone "big" taking on Ireland job, may see both Nick Mallett and Wayne Smith in for both ours and Irelands job.

To the guys who said "Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus", what accusations are you referring to ?

What about Matt Williams or Frank Hadden as the permanent Scotland head coach now that Scotland have decent backs and forwards.

shaun.mahon.9 wrote:I can see someone "big" taking on Ireland job, may see both Nick Mallett and Wayne Smith in for both ours and Irelands job.

To the guys who said "Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus", what accusations are you referring to ?

In the 2007 game against Ireland, O'Gara got stuck at a bottom of a ruck and lost conciousness. After the match, O'Sullivan publically accused Hines of choking him and trying to murder him. It took O'Gara a year to publically deny it, and O'Sullivan has yet to apologise.

What about Clive Woodward or Will Carling as Scotland head coach?

gboycottnut wrote:What about Clive Woodward or Will Carling as Scotland head coach?

Totally. What could possibly go wrong with that? I've actually managed to mix oil and water together whilst I've been sitting here.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

shaun.mahon.9 wrote:I can see someone "big" taking on Ireland job, may see both Nick Mallett and Wayne Smith in for both ours and Irelands job.

To the guys who said "Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus", what accusations are you referring to ?

In the 2007 game against Ireland, O'Gara got stuck at a bottom of a ruck and lost conciousness. After the match, O'Sullivan publically accused Hines of choking him and trying to murder him. It took O'Gara a year to publically deny it, and O'Sullivan has yet to apologise.

Oh that's a good one. It maybe took a year for O'Gara to be told by someone else???? Remember, he didn't have a clue what happened...he was unconscious at the time. But as always with O'Gara, he's the big bad wolf in any rugby story. He done gone and trottled himself, the sly f**ker!

SecretFly wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

shaun.mahon.9 wrote:I can see someone "big" taking on Ireland job, may see both Nick Mallett and Wayne Smith in for both ours and Irelands job.

To the guys who said "Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus", what accusations are you referring to ?

In the 2007 game against Ireland, O'Gara got stuck at a bottom of a ruck and lost conciousness. After the match, O'Sullivan publically accused Hines of choking him and trying to murder him. It took O'Gara a year to publically deny it, and O'Sullivan has yet to apologise.

Oh that's a good one. It maybe took a year for O'Gara to be told by someone else???? Remember, he didn't have a clue what happened...he was unconscious at the time. But as always with O'Gara, he's the big bad wolf in any rugby story. He done gone and trottled himself, the sly f**ker!

Getting a bit defensive there, I never implied anything. The point im trying to make is about O'Sullivan anyway, the bit about O'Gara was meant to highlight that hes publically denied it, yet O'Sullivan hasnt.

SecretFly wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

shaun.mahon.9 wrote:I can see someone "big" taking on Ireland job, may see both Nick Mallett and Wayne Smith in for both ours and Irelands job.

To the guys who said "Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus", what accusations are you referring to ?

In the 2007 game against Ireland, O'Gara got stuck at a bottom of a ruck and lost conciousness. After the match, O'Sullivan publically accused Hines of choking him and trying to murder him. It took O'Gara a year to publically deny it, and O'Sullivan has yet to apologise.

Oh that's a good one. It maybe took a year for O'Gara to be told by someone else???? Remember, he didn't have a clue what happened...he was unconscious at the time. But as always with O'Gara, he's the big bad wolf in any rugby story. He done gone and trottled himself, the sly f**ker!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/o-gara-breaks-silence-on-murrayfield-choke-claim-to-finally-put-hines-in-clear-1-1433607

123456789 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

shaun.mahon.9 wrote:I can see someone "big" taking on Ireland job, may see both Nick Mallett and Wayne Smith in for both ours and Irelands job.

To the guys who said "Until O'Sullivan apologises for his accusations of attempted murder in 2007, he can stay in cyprus", what accusations are you referring to ?

In the 2007 game against Ireland, O'Gara got stuck at a bottom of a ruck and lost conciousness. After the match, O'Sullivan publically accused Hines of choking him and trying to murder him. It took O'Gara a year to publically deny it, and O'Sullivan has yet to apologise.

Oh that's a good one. It maybe took a year for O'Gara to be told by someone else???? Remember, he didn't have a clue what happened...he was unconscious at the time. But as always with O'Gara, he's the big bad wolf in any rugby story. He done gone and trottled himself, the sly f**ker!

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/o-gara-breaks-silence-on-murrayfield-choke-claim-to-finally-put-hines-in-clear-1-1433607

Exactly. Proves what I said. O'Gara didn't/and couldn't have a clue what happened, he was too busy being unconcsious at the time.

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Getting a bit defensive there, I never implied anything. The point im trying to make is about O'Sullivan anyway, the bit about O'Gara was meant to highlight that hes publically denied it, yet O'Sullivan hasnt.

Yeah. That's exactly what I was getting Imperial. The guy (arch enemy of Leinster men of which I'm one ) gets an awful lot of bad press and people seem to think him always the guilty party in any controversal incident. Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. And when he isn't and I see him being needlessly pointed at - yep, I defend him. Okay, I accept O'Sullivan was your target.... O'Gara taking a year to apologise for being unconsious wasn't required to point that out though.

Interestingly, if Johnson steps down from Scotland, will he go to Edinburgh? As much as Duncan Hodges and Stevie Scott will get the chance til the end of the season, SJ would be a good fit for Edinburgh no?

SecretFly wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Getting a bit defensive there, I never implied anything. The point im trying to make is about O'Sullivan anyway, the bit about O'Gara was meant to highlight that hes publically denied it, yet O'Sullivan hasnt.

Yeah. That's exactly what I was getting Imperial. The guy (arch enemy of Leinster men of which I'm one ) gets an awful lot of bad press and people seem to think him always the guilty party in any controversal incident. Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't. And when he isn't and I see him being needlessly pointed at - yep, I defend him. Okay, I accept O'Sullivan was your target.... O'Gara taking a year to apologise for being unconsious wasn't required to point that out though.

Youre putting words into my mouth, I never said he apologised and I didnt expect him to, I said he denied it happened. And when one of our players is being accused of attempted murder, it was a long time. He wasnt unconcious for a whole year.

AGAIN though, its not the point.