v2 G.O.A.T The Final

First topic message reminder :

After two months of competition, over 2500 votes, over 5500 comments, a voting scandal, a restarted format and the Gavin Hastings situation, the v2 GOAT has come to its climax with the final matchup of the tournament today to decide who the v2 posters will crown their greatest of all time.

Yesterday’s two semi-finals were two of the most closely contested matches of the tournament with football, tennis, cricket and boxing represented in the final four, in match 1 Mohammed Ali took on Don Bradman and with the voting neck and neck for the majority of the day it was eventually the self-proclaimed greatest of all time that took the initiative and became the first entrant to secure his spot in the final. In the second match grand slam champion Roger Federer took on two time world cup winner Pele, in another intriguing battle that was extremely close all day neither man could establish a lead of any note, eventually Federer sealed his spot in the final by just two votes finishing on 44 to Pele’s 42.

Bradman exits the competition defeating Zinedine Zidane, and Harry Greb in round 1, Daley Thompson, Brain Lara and Eddy Merckx in round 2, Sugar Ray Robinson and Usain Bolt in the last 16 , Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods and Michael Johnson in the last 8.

Pele’s scalps include Michael Schumacher, Stephen Hendry, Phil Taylor, Martina Navratilova and Wayne Gretzky.

Today’s final sees a clash of styles, generation and sports as boxing takes on tennis to decide the v2 G.O.A.T

Ali vs. Federer and emancipator vs 6oldenbhoy in the battle of the GOAT champions

Please vote for the v2 G.O.A.T

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

milkyboy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Hang on now, the Fed express has made a comeback!

... Well he had to do it once in his career

Remind me, spaghetti was from the tennis board?

Not all members of the Tennis boards be tarred with the same. Stereotyping is as fraught with issues as Wee K'eira debates.

Hang on a bit more, the Fed express has nosed ahead by 1!

Ali, despite his detractors, is a fantastic athlete and wonderful human being. Such choices are always very difficult to make and have a myriad personal biases in their wake.

i just nipped ali in front, ive put my case for ali forward plenty of times on here. needless to say for me he's much better than fed

laverfan wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Hang on now, the Fed express has made a comeback!

... Well he had to do it once in his career

Remind me, spaghetti was from the tennis board?

Not all members of the Tennis boards be tarred with the same. Stereotyping is as fraught with issues as Wee K'eira debates.

Jesting that he might have made a comeback... I'm aware you're not all dingbats... Though you seem to have more than your fair share

I'm struggling to motivate myself to vote - while I voted for Federer ahead of Ali in the QF, I don't think either would make my personal top 2 (Pele for sure and probably Bradman), and think that some other worthy contenders (Jordan, Gretsky, Merckx, SRR, arguably even Bolt) suffered from bad luck in the draw.

Also a pity that one or two credible contenders never got a write-up worthy of their status, and that one or two posters decided to try to spoil things (obviously with particular reference to Pasta Feet and his Mainly Imaginary Friends).

Anyway, even with the above comment, I think this has been a very interesting and worthwhile series and has raised some good debating points. Oh, and I also learnt of the existence of Harry Greb

Thanks to the guys that have put in the effort to run this and to those who did provide high quality contributions.

Anyway, even with the above comment, I think this has been a very interesting and worthwhile series and has raised some good debating points. Oh, and I also learnt of the existence of Harry Greb

Poor old Harry needs all the exposure he can get. His very existence was once questioned on the boxing board.

I'm also here from the tennis board to lend support to Federer. Although I'm also a boxing man and have a staggering amount of respect for Ali, a truly worthy finalist, I can't not vote for Federer in this one. Ironically I voted against him versus Pele, which made me feel strange - Fed is my personal sporting GOAT, but when placed against Pele...it just didn't feel right, somehow. Is Federer really the greatest sportsman ever? I don't know. Either way, apologies if this post seems overly partisan.

As far as Federer's record goes, I don't even know what to say. Perhaps the greatest testament to him is just how much of a monster he's created over the years - he lost in five sets earlier this year to a younger rival in Murray, and some people thought the writing was on the wall with retirement beckoning. To clarify, that's a semi-final loss at a slam, and Federer was (still is) #2 in the world at the time. If that's retirement form, then it just goes to demonstrate what Federer's achieved in his career.

Honestly, for me personally it's not just the incredible playing style and many memorable moments of his career that stand out for me, but rather the heart and spirit that Federer possesses. He's a man with obvious talents but he's repeatedly worked himself to the bone over the years to become the best and stay there - even when younger rivals pursued him, he kept them at bay for a long time. Even today it invariably takes a very good performance to knock him out of a tournament, and it took a phenomenal one when he was at his peak - there are very few easy matches against him. Seriously, he doesn't get the credit for it but Federer has the heart of a champion in him. He's not invincible, but he always give it his best and is generally a credit to himself and the sport.

The standards he's set in tennis are unmatched and may well be for many decades. And I will remember Ali and Federer for the rest of my life, worthy GOAT candidates both.

Edit: laverfan put it more succinctly than me, read his posts! And thanks to the organisers for running this, great stuff

Would like to add to some of the above posts and thank the organisers and contributors (there have been some great write ups).

I've learnt a lot from the process and widened my knowledge, the result is secondary to that for me personally.

Also learned there are some utter d!cks on this forum who I will be avoiding at all costs in the future - you know who you are.

Will be interested to see what the final result is tomorrow!

Agreed VTR. Though to be fair, it's been equally been nice to see some posters on these threads from other boards that I'd never seen before, some good contributions all around.

Yeah thanks to the organisers.

I'd like to add a few thoughts to the Federer debate.

He's received some criticism for not winning as much in his later years against younger rivals. I've always maintained that he shouldn't be winning against these guys given that he is 6-7 years past his prime.

In fact the stats back this up. Only Andre Agassi and Rod Laver have won as many slams as Fed past the age of 27. All three have five.

Lendl won 4

Sampras won 2

Rosewall won 4

Connors won 2

Federer has time yet to break this record. So for Fed to do this in the most stacked and physical of eras is amazing.

Interesting point about who would consider either of these the GOAT, i'll give my top ten a try.

1. Robinson
2. Pele
3. Mercxx
4. Ali
5. Bolt
6. Federer
7. Redgrave
8. Suleymanoglu
9. Khan
10. Gretzky

The assertion that Fed doesn't have fight is nonsense. He makes it look so easy most of the time that people forget what a gritty competitor he is.

There are so many matches were he's looked down and out but managed to pull through. Too many to list.

How can a guy who's ranked permanently in the top three for the last 10 seasons (since mid 2003) shrink in the face of adversity?

emancipator wrote:Yeah thanks to the organisers.

I'd like to add a few thoughts to the Federer debate.

He's received some criticism for not winning as much in his later years against younger rivals. I've always maintained that he shouldn't be winning against these guys given that he is 6-7 years past his prime.

In fact the stats back this up. Only Andre Agassi and Rod Laver have won as many slams as Fed past the age of 27. All three have five.

Lendl won 4

Sampras won 2

Rosewall won 4

Connors won 2

Federer has time yet to break this record. So for Fed to do this in the most stacked and physical of eras is amazing.

He's only 31, not 32 till August. Surely his prime should be at least until 27 as he matured relatively late compared to Borg or Nadal and as he is such a huge talent 28, so really hes only 3 years past the end of his prime years. I'd say that was fair.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Interesting point about who would consider either of these the GOAT, i'll give my top ten a try.

1. Robinson
2. Pele
3. Mercxx
4. Ali
5. Bolt
6. Federer
7. Redgrave
8. Suleymanoglu
9. Khan
10. Gretzky

Amir?

Jahangir thankfully otherwise onetwo would kill himself

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Interesting point about who would consider either of these the GOAT, i'll give my top ten a try.

1. Robinson
2. Pele
3. Mercxx
4. Ali
5. Bolt
6. Federer
7. Redgrave
8. Suleymanoglu
9. Khan
10. Gretzky

OK I'll have a go

1. Bradman
2. Ali
3. Federer
4. Pele
5. Merckx
6. Owens
7. Phelps
8. Gretsky
9. Jordan
10. Nicklaus

but TBH 2,3 are interchangeable, as are pretty much 4-10 (and others: Khan, Maradona, and a few others could make my top 10 on any given day).

The point is that only two other players have won as many slams past the age of 27. None of them had to face the competitors that Fed has had to face. This highlights the fact that tennis has always been a young man's sport. Players generally don't have much success beyond that age. Most slams are won in the 21-27 period.

Surely Ali here.
He was the first crossover star who transcended a sport before those terms became cliches.

Ok my top 10

1=. woods
1=. J nicklaus
1=. Fed
1=. Bolt
1=. messi
6. Iniesta
7. Bradman
8. Gretsky
9. Jordon
10. Carl lewis

Oh and a special mention To Mo.


Gold medalist and he beat the cube!!!

mystiroakey wrote:Ok my top 10

1=. woods
1=. J nicklaus
1=. Fed
1=. Bolt
1=. messi
6. Iniesta
7. Bradman
8. Gretsky
9. Jordon
10. Carl lewis

well that was random...

in what way

Well Iniesta is no where near being the best midfielder of all time let alone the second best footballer and 6th best sportsmen.

He is criminally underrated yes

He gets more than enough praise, he's a world class player but he's no Zidane and isn't even the second best player in the world right now.

As much as this has been fun and all that(I think we need to do something else like this again soon )

I am not going to be overly happy to see a boxer win this. It is just not a sport that I can respect at all, for so many reasons.

Come On Fed - one final push lad

Can't say I was overly happy to see Bradman in the 64 let alone getting into the last four but at least Ali has global appeal rather than being know in two.

Well I can sort of understand why many would nullify some like the Don.

In the US you would have Babe Ruth up there at the end. In India Tendulkar would probably win. In Kiwi land it may be lumo or Macaw!

Who would win in China!!

a table tennis star, or in japan a summo dude

Who would win in Scotland? Jocky Wilson?

super_realist wrote:Who would win in Scotland? Jocky Wilson?

Gavin Hastings, surely?

emancipator wrote:The point is that only two other players have won as many slams past the age of 27. None of them had to face the competitors that Fed has had to face. This highlights the fact that tennis has always been a young man's sport. Players generally don't have much success beyond that age. Most slams are won in the 21-27 period.

Well that still only makes him 4 years past his peak. I do take your point just think 6-7 years is stretching it somewhat.

Stephen Hendry of course!!

Diggers wrote:

emancipator wrote:The point is that only two other players have won as many slams past the age of 27. None of them had to face the competitors that Fed has had to face. This highlights the fact that tennis has always been a young man's sport. Players generally don't have much success beyond that age. Most slams are won in the 21-27 period.

Well that still only makes him 4 years past his peak. I do take your point just think 6-7 years is stretching it somewhat.

I think there's a difference between peak and prime years. Prime years may be 22-27 (give or take a year) but absolute peak is probably a shorter range. Fed's peak was probably around 2005-2006, when he lost a total of 9 matches in those two years, that would correspond to age 23-25. That's probably when he was at his absolute best. Anyway I take your point too. I think his feat of being so competitive in his later years will look better once the likes of Nadal and Djokovic reach 30 and find themselves struggling (which is what I expect to happen).

These days i think its even harder to compete at an older age. There is simply just so much more blood coming through the ranks.. So I very much doubt djokivic nadal or murray will be at the 'top' top of the game when they are 30!

I sincerely doubt the Capybara will even be in the game by 30.

Who is this massive Rat you talk of SR dude!! (Murray!)

Have you not seen the pictures online likening the ghastly Nadal to a Capybara,

http://capybarasthatlooklikerafaelnadal.tumblr.com/

Nah...

But yeah I see it a bit.. His nose is kind of smashed up like a guinea pig

Not sure I dare provoke the response im expecting but....... why do the tennis boards dislike nadal so much. He would always start as favourite on clay against federer which is one reason I cant have fed anywhere near the no.1 spot. You wouldnt make another heavyweight boxer favourite from any era really.

Id judge an GOAT as someone that inspires people to start a sport and I feel ali has done that more than any other fighter not sure the same can be said of roger.

Plus if you are asked to name a boxer ali is generally the first name you think of. With tennis this would be much more widespread.

Finally the damage someone takes in boxing over a career I feel is a lot more significant in heavyweight boxing so to get the results he did in the latter end of his career push Ali further ahead.

"Id judge an GOAT as someone that inspires people to start a sport and I feel ali has done that more than any other fighter not sure the same can be said of roger."

Heavyweight boxing is dead

Flyweights can still be inspired by a heavyweight

What is the participation of boxing in the UK?

Not sure exactly but it was fairly well participated in the olympics. I think it was the biggest team we have ever sent.

As host you can represent every sport and class going.

And we fullfilled that. It was the most particp;ated olympics by us ever- for obvious reasons..

Anyway . How many boxers do you know or have known?. Thats the only question you need to ask..

I admire the skills and fitness of boxing, but it's never really grabbed me.

It's a very very tough sport, but what I dislike about it most is the dreadful ego's that boxers seem to have, or at least portray. There's a cracking video of some cocky little git on youtube showboating for about 10 minutes like Naseem Hameed on acid then he promptly gets knocked out. I did enjoy that.

Got to be honest I would bet money on the fact that seeing what Ali has deterorated in to has put more kids and parents off the sport.

mystiroakey wrote:
"Id judge an GOAT as someone that inspires people to start a sport and I feel ali has done that more than any other fighter not sure the same can be said of roger."

Heavyweight boxing is dead

Is it? Even if it is - what's that got to do with Ali. Equivalent of blaming Harold Wilson for dwindling voter turnout.

About half a dozen amateurs a couple of professionals. Why?

We also had a large group in Beijing. Not really sure where this is going? Has ali changed nationality?

nothing , but diggers raised a good point about this earlier. People keep banging on about Alis legacy.

It means zip. Boxing is a dying sport