John Cena....

Now, this is gonna be a mini rant, so Miky, you should probably shield your eyes.......

But, after Extreme Rules i've started to question; Is there anything they won't do to stop people booing Cena?

Having him announce the death of Bin Laden and then make a spectacle of it on RAW just smacks of trying to get him more over with the people. All this rubbish about hustle, loyalty and respect is just plain annoying now. Granted the OBL stuff is a big deal, but why him? Why not Vince? Or HHH? Just because he is Superman he gets rammed down our throats.

I respect his commitment to the business and what he does but i'm seriously bored of him now.

I've been bored of him for years :cena:

Miky will be sitting crying at his computer screen.

:cena: <--- This is fantastic, whoever created this I actually love you.

I do think some of the booing is ridiculous, yes you either like him or you don't but i do think there is a problem when people are booing a face, weather it is ignorance or just genuine, it annoys me.

Holymiky wrote: :cena: <--- This is fantastic, whoever created this I actually love you.

There is our proof KB

Holymiky wrote: :cena: <--- This is fantastic, whoever created this I actually love you.

I do think some of the booing is ridiculous, yes you either like him or you don't but i do think there is a problem when people are booing a face, weather it is ignorance or just genuine, it annoys me.

I got it just for you mate.

But seriously, people are entitled to boo and cheer for who they like. It's shocking that the WWE doesn't see this and instead tries to force people to support him.

Surely the forcing people to cheer is more likely to backfire?

They must see that forcing something upon people is likely to have the opposite of the desired effect.

There's only one way to turn those boos to cheers:

Jumpin' John Cena.

Yip!

Can we point him in the direction of some cliffs or the grand canyon before he starts his jumpin?

:cena:

I just think turning him Heel though would make people want to cheer him again, depending on how they did it and what sort of impact it would have on his character of course.

the only way I would cheer for cena:

:bowler:

Holymiky wrote: :cena:

I just think turning him Heel though would make people want to cheer him again, depending on how they did it and what sort of impact it would have on his character of course.

No, they would continue booing him, Miky. If they turn him heel he has to get rid of the 'Superman' gimmick and become a proper heel. The kids will boo him, the fans will boo him and everyone will be happy.

They missed the biggest thing going by not turning him heel with The Nexus.

King Beer wrote:No, they would continue booing him, Miky. If they turn him heel he has to get rid of the 'Superman' gimmick and become a proper heel. The kids will boo him, the fans will boo him and everyone will be happy.

Things is KB, when Cena turns heel he'll have to get rid of a lot of what the older fans hate about him now.

Kid friendly Superman gimmick - Gone.

Poopy promos - Gone.

No selling - Gone.

5 Moves of Doom - Gone.

Beating people with the STF - Most likely gone.

I think if Cena was to turn heel then there's a good chance that the older fans would eventually start cheering for him again, depending on the character they give him.

John Cena should've turned heel ages ago. They had this with The Rock 2001-late 2002 and the worst thing they did was try to turn Steve Austin heel in Texas at Wrestlemania 17 which was the worst attempt ever as the fans were cheering Austin!!

I remember the fans chanting 'Rocky Sucks' for ages before they turned him heel in early 2003 which was pointless at the time as he was due to leave. But since there he hasn't been booed at all.

Turning John Cena heel is hardly going to hurt the WWE. Look at Randy Orton. He was a massive heel and then people cheered him and eventually the WWE turned him face. The whole John Cena gimmick at the moment is totally rubbish. Everyone loves the whole rapping gimmick which was good for the raps he did. As a face now though he has no explosive moves and it is just shoulder charge after shoulder charge. His finishers are hardly ground breaking. Fans love an explosive RKO or a chokeslam or a spear.

If you go back to when Austin and The Rock were main eventers coming into their prime. Austin had the stunner and the right gimmick at the time which fitted the top face. You had The Rock who at the time didn't have the spinebuster that lead to the Peoples Elbow. The Rock Bottom was a great finisher, but didn't have the same effect as a stunner in terms of the speed it could be delivered, but The Rock was great on the mic and that is how it has been with the top 2 faces in the WWE. Go back to Bret Hart and HBK. Bret was the better wrestler and HBK was the better gimmick on the mic. I have always thought of Randy Orton and Edge being the WWE's top 2 in the last 3 years. Randy being over with the ring work and Edge being better on the mic and a better gimmick.

John Cena would so much benefit being a heel and I would watch Raw more if they took the plunge and made him heel as at the moment he is not going anywhere as a face.

Cena is boring. His move set is boring; his personality is boring; his appearance is boring and now yet again for the 10th time he is world champion...which is boring.

I don't mind Cena holding the title but I didn't like the way it was implied that Cena would win at ER just because he'd gone 10 months without the title. It was almost "Cena can't go a whole year without the title - that's just ridiculous!"

Oh and I hate the way he sells Miz's finisher - imo the move should be applied after the opponent has been sufficiently worn down and groggy thus not able to put up a resistance: the body should be limp. Cena just puts his arms straight in the air as if they're made of wood and it makes the move look so ridiculous. Rant over.

Y2,

They need to give him a HHH circa 2001 gimmick. When he had his reign of doom. Get a couple of people behind him and have him become a proper heel.

If he had led the Nexus then the stand out star from that could've been elevated to main event level and Cena would've played his part. What has he actually done for anyone recently? When was the last time he put some one over, or elevated a break out star?

I don't recall Cena ever elevating anybody, because I don't think he's capable of it. Whether that's because of his own shortcomings or the way he's booked I don't know.

I agree with you about him having a 'reign of terror' though KB, Cena as a corporate type champion - they can play on his reputation as a 'company man' - should be money, the only problem is that at some point Cena's going to have to make somebody, and he hasn't shown anything to suggest he knows how to do that.

King Beer wrote:

Holymiky wrote: :cena:

I just think turning him Heel though would make people want to cheer him again, depending on how they did it and what sort of impact it would have on his character of course.

No, they would continue booing him, Miky. If they turn him heel he has to get rid of the 'Superman' gimmick and become a proper heel. The kids will boo him, the fans will boo him and everyone will be happy.

They missed the biggest thing going by not turning him heel with The Nexus.

Trouble is with Nexus they were all new people within the WWE pretty much wouldn't that have a drastic effect on how over Cena's Heel turn is meaning fans would be confused?

Holymiky wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Holymiky wrote: :cena:

I just think turning him Heel though would make people want to cheer him again, depending on how they did it and what sort of impact it would have on his character of course.

No, they would continue booing him, Miky. If they turn him heel he has to get rid of the 'Superman' gimmick and become a proper heel. The kids will boo him, the fans will boo him and everyone will be happy.

They missed the biggest thing going by not turning him heel with The Nexus.

Trouble is with Nexus they were all new people within the WWE pretty much wouldn't that have a drastic effect on how over Cena's Heel turn is meaning fans would be confused?

Rubbish.

By the time the Nexus angle was in full swing these guys were well known enough for Cena to align with, and the point would be he would build them up. When HHH started Evolution, Orton had barely been around and Batoaster was fresh out of FCW, and look where they got to.

Holymiky wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Holymiky wrote: :cena:

I just think turning him Heel though would make people want to cheer him again, depending on how they did it and what sort of impact it would have on his character of course.

No, they would continue booing him, Miky. If they turn him heel he has to get rid of the 'Superman' gimmick and become a proper heel. The kids will boo him, the fans will boo him and everyone will be happy.

They missed the biggest thing going by not turning him heel with The Nexus.

Trouble is with Nexus they were all new people within the WWE pretty much wouldn't that have a drastic effect on how over Cena's Heel turn is meaning fans would be confused?

That has more to do with how they booked it though. If they had turned Cena with them....they wouldn't have been jobbing left right and centre. To back up the heel turn they would have been a dominant force. Possibly recruiting more established members to add a legitamacy to it.

David Tails wrote:

Holymiky wrote:

King Beer wrote:

Holymiky wrote: :cena:

I just think turning him Heel though would make people want to cheer him again, depending on how they did it and what sort of impact it would have on his character of course.

No, they would continue booing him, Miky. If they turn him heel he has to get rid of the 'Superman' gimmick and become a proper heel. The kids will boo him, the fans will boo him and everyone will be happy.

They missed the biggest thing going by not turning him heel with The Nexus.

Trouble is with Nexus they were all new people within the WWE pretty much wouldn't that have a drastic effect on how over Cena's Heel turn is meaning fans would be confused?

That has more to do with how they booked it though. If they had turned Cena with them....they wouldn't have been jobbing left right and centre. To back up the heel turn they would have been a dominant force. Possibly recruiting more established members to add a legitamacy to it.

Exactly.

It shows you how little faith they have in Punk and Barrett given how often the other members get buried.

They could easily do with Cena what they did with Bret Hart when he feuded with Austin.

The other problem is, who do you feud him with? He's buried nearly everyone with Main Event status? For me, anyone who isn't established who steps in the ring with him is gonna get buried.

The only person I could think of is Taker. You are right though KB he has buried nearly everyone. I think Sheamus if given the right opportunity could feud with Cena.

Christian!

get cena to fight all three members of generation zero, that should shut him up

legendkillar wrote:The only person I could think of is Taker. You are right though KB he has buried nearly everyone. I think Sheamus if given the right opportunity could feud with Cena.

Problem is, Sheamus has been there before, been buried by Cena and HHH. He needs a fresh start as a monster heel, and hopefully a feud with 'Taker.

Unless they give Swagger a huge push between now and Summerslam, i can only see more pointless feuds between Cena and Miz.

Unless of course they have Batista return to take out Cena, he could be the catalyst for the Cena heel turn, and with Cena's ultimate goal being revenge on The Rock.

Quite agree there KB. Think Cena will remain face up until WM28 and maybe by then we may have a main event babyface in the making.

If he is face going into WM28 then he HAS to walk out heel. Otherwise it's just been for nothing.

There will never be a more perfect opportunity for them to turn Cena heel than at Wrestlemania 28 against the Rock. The only other thing that would come close is ending the Streak.

theundisputedY2D2 wrote:There will never be a more perfect opportunity for them to turn Cena heel than at Wrestlemania 28 against the Rock. The only other thing that would come close is ending the Streak.

Agreed. In his hometown, screwing him, have Vince involved, Cole, the RAW GM. It could be so, so epic and completely rejuvenate the product.

King Beer wrote:Agreed. In his hometown, screwing him, have Vince involved, Cole, the RAW GM. It could be so, so epic and completely rejuvenate the product.

The above scenario = MONEY.

theundisputedY2D2 wrote:

King Beer wrote:Agreed. In his hometown, screwing him, have Vince involved, Cole, the RAW GM. It could be so, so epic and completely rejuvenate the product.

The above scenario = MONEY.

Glad you agree!

Crowd full of people wearing his t shirt, sweat bands and hat one month after launch. Until they've a similar cash cow they won't turn him heel.

Ent wrote:Crowd full of people wearing his t shirt, sweat bands and hat one month after launch. Until they've a similar cash cow they won't turn him heel.

Yep. And that is excatly were the problem lies now.

It's no longer about who puts on the best matches, who can draw heat or work a match. It's about who sells the most t-shirts.

I read the other day that apparently Zach Ryder is due to get a push because of how well his youtube stuff has been received. Nothing to do with his persona or ability. Simply the WWE jumping on a bandwagon to make more $$$!

Has it not always been like that?

Catch 22 they need another star to send cena into orbit (like Austin ad rock) but don't wanna risk the merch sales.

Also Bring back serious kayfabe, cena just says what he likes to the crowd and doesn't really have a proper character/gimmick on the mic IMO. Ironically he was the only one who kept it in last nights episode when showing rock the belt.

Ent wrote:Has it not always been like that?

Not really, i think the problem now is the product is so diluted and so much focus has been on Cena that it's too much to expect new talent to shine through as he constantly buries them.

Back in the day you had Rock, Austin, Jericho, Angle, Taker, Kane, Y2J and Mick Foley, plus other mid carders who could step up.

Now we have (active) Cena and Orton. No proper heels and depth in faces.

Good point, watched wm 17 the other day and the difference was huge.

Another thing I noticed was that everything seemed to matter- the feuds were so personal- I guess you've to give credit to miz here as he does put across that the title really matters.

I guess everyone has been squashed by cena so often and he has had the main title 10 times in 6 years it's hard to pretend it all still matters.

The mid card in the WWE used to be superb. Now it is plain rubbish. The Intercontinental Title carries no importance nowadays and it is such a shame to see it passed around to stars not fit to wear it.

The WWE is so PG that it is beyond belief. That is why in terms of wrestling TNA is miles ahead. The problem there is that it is bloated with over the hill performers and the gimmicks are gash at times. TNA became very inventive with matches such as King of The Mountain (which WWE ripped with MITB) and Ultimate X.

The WWE keeps releasing talent sometimes too soon. I remember in 2005 seeing Bobby Lashley, Kennedy, MVP and thinking this will be the future and now where are they?

Christian for example in TNA was brilliant. So well utilised. Now in the WWE I just cannot get the same buzz that I got when he was in TNA.

There is no platform for John Cena anymore. Look at Taker and Triple H. They can't go anywhere apart from putting over new talent.

The WWE needs new blood. Dare I say it if they pulled in AJ Styles, Robert Roode and Chris Sabin it would give the WWE a much needed kick up the bottom.

Exactly.

Every title, every feud had the potential to grab you. Each division was given time to thrive, the Tag Team division was exciting, Hardcore and IC belts were given proper airtime.

legend,

I think part of it now is that WCW's demise has left a massive gap in the talent pool.

Because TNA is not a 'viable' competitor the likelyhood of talent coming from there to here and main eventing is almost nil. It would have to be an unbelievable, stand out talent. And whilst TNA does have some great wrestlers, they have nobody who fits that bill. They are too busy involved in meaningless feuds whilst Hogan takes up airtime and oxygen.

When Vladimir Kozalov burst onto the scene he grabbed because I thought yes. This guy is the heel that the WWE needs. Big, Strong, Quick no doubt he needed to be a bit more cleaner on the mat but he was like Benoit in terms of gimmick, not say a lot, but kicks a$$ and he was big like Lesnar. All he needed was a little bit of work and he could have easily had a good feud with Cena. Now he is paired with Santino and it is sad to see another talent get destroyed. Same with R-Truth. He is becoming like K-Dawg again!

The WWE mid card was dying in late 1998-99 and then in 2000 they got the Radicalz and Jericho and in the Intercontinental scene you had Jericho, Benoit, Angle, Guerrero and that was just the mid-card and it the WWE was able to go slightly PG as they had the talent to. The Tag Team division had The Dudleyz, Hardys, Edge and Christian and a dying out New Age Outlaws. Again a strong division.

Now?

Exactly.

With NXT they got lucky as Wade Barrett has potential as an IC Champ. Justin Gabriel and Heath Slater as Tag Team look good. Like 'The Rockers' dare I say.

The WWE has the talent and yet do nothing with them

They had proper factiosn as well back then, something the WWE is lacking.

There's no-one coming through in WWE who makes you say "That guy has IT! He's going to be huge!"

Instead it's a case of "Well that guy could be good, if they did this, this and this. And that guy's not too bad, but he needs to be rebuilt as a credible main-eventer" etc.

Back in 2002 you had guys like Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Randy Orton and Batista coming through and you just KNEW they were going to make it to the top.

King Beer wrote:They had proper factiosn as well back then, something the WWE is lacking.

:cena:

I know i am a massive Cena fan right and it sounds bias but i do think alot of the IWC are unfair to him and i don't think i'm the only one who thinks this. Lately more than anything it's been raw critisism towards him but most of it isn't his fault but people blame him it seems.

Yeah i would enjoy him nonetheless but a character refresh could do wonders and i agree with that, Heel turn or not i would still support him as much as i do. I just can't see it happening and it's hard to turn him heel especially when all he stands for what be turned on it's head and it would be hard for anyone to believe, mainly kids, that he was a bad guy because they have been fed alot of information about him outside of the company. It would really have to be something phenomenal and out of this world that people believed he was the bad guy, forever how long he were going to be a heel for. He could of worked in the Nexus stable but where would they of went with the storyline if Cena turned out to be part of them? He was the front runner in the feud.

In the mean time...Hustle, Loyalty and Respect!

:cena:

KB

I think TNA have talent that could cut it in the WWE. For example get MCMG in the tag division and I could see them feud with Gabriel and Slater leading to a massive TLC match. That would be worth watching. Get AJ over and he could easily feud with Jericho/Cena. Get Roode over there as a heel and he could hold the IC Title with much credit.

Sheamus for me has the potential, but he has had too many squashes from Cena and Triple H. I was impressed with his mic work, but again he got pushed too fast.

For me if Ziggler had more 'moves' and ventured on his own with out 'EXCUSE ME' he could be big.

Holymiky wrote:

King Beer wrote:They had proper factiosn as well back then, something the WWE is lacking.

:cena:

I know i am a massive Cena fan right and it sounds bias but i do think alot of the IWC are unfair to him and i don't think i'm the only one who thinks this. Lately more than anything it's been raw critisism towards him but most of it isn't his fault but people blame him it seems.

Yeah i would enjoy him nonetheless but a character refresh could do wonders and i agree with that, Heel turn or not i would still support him as much as i do. I just can't see it happening and it's hard to turn him heel especially when all he stands for what be turned on it's head and it would be hard for anyone to believe, mainly kids, that he was a bad guy because they have been fed alot of information about him outside of the company. It would really have to be something phenomenal and out of this world that people believed he was the bad guy, forever how long he were going to be a heel for.

In the mean time...Hustle, Loyalty and Respect!

:cena:

Unfortunately you are blinded by the Cena 'persona'. You are one of these who believes it would be oh so difficult to turn him heel when actually it would be the easiest thing in the world to do.

I don't agree that it's Cena's fault that the company has become stale on a main event front but he's not completely innocent. He's had chances to elevate people, he could've stepped aside and let someone else run with the ball, he's the locker room leader and tight with Vince, he can easily make himself heard. But he chooses not to.

He's not Batman, he's not a real life superhero, he isn't going to save the world but for whatever reason he and the BoD seem to think that he's somehow helping people. That he's some sort of beacon to the unappreciated masses. He's not. He's a wrestler. A very average one.

Have to disagree with this article. It made perfect sense for Cena to announce OBL's death. It was announced to the media around the time of the main event, so chances are he was informed of it just before going out or just after the match ended. Given his close connection and genuine respect for the military, and regaining the title, it was appropriate. I don't think that was done to appease the fans.

Some people give Cena unnecessary stick at times.

King Beer wrote:

Holymiky wrote:

King Beer wrote:They had proper factiosn as well back then, something the WWE is lacking.

:cena:

I know i am a massive Cena fan right and it sounds bias but i do think alot of the IWC are unfair to him and i don't think i'm the only one who thinks this. Lately more than anything it's been raw critisism towards him but most of it isn't his fault but people blame him it seems.

Yeah i would enjoy him nonetheless but a character refresh could do wonders and i agree with that, Heel turn or not i would still support him as much as i do. I just can't see it happening and it's hard to turn him heel especially when all he stands for what be turned on it's head and it would be hard for anyone to believe, mainly kids, that he was a bad guy because they have been fed alot of information about him outside of the company. It would really have to be something phenomenal and out of this world that people believed he was the bad guy, forever how long he were going to be a heel for.

In the mean time...Hustle, Loyalty and Respect!

:cena:

Unfortunately you are blinded by the Cena 'persona'. You are one of these who believes it would be oh so difficult to turn him heel when actually it would be the easiest thing in the world to do.

I don't agree that it's Cena's fault that the company has become stale on a main event front but he's not completely innocent. He's had chances to elevate people, he could've stepped aside and let someone else run with the ball, he's the locker room leader and tight with Vince, he can easily make himself heard. But he chooses not to.

He's not Batman, he's not a real life superhero, he isn't going to save the world but for whatever reason he and the BoD seem to think that he's somehow helping people. That he's some sort of beacon to the unappreciated masses. He's not. He's a wrestler. A very average one.

My point is that it will be hard, i didn't say it was impossible hence the fact i said that the Nexus storyline could of been good. I'm not blinded to him at all, i like his character, i've always been interested in Cena's characters. He plays them well. I don't think Cena is to blame, if the WWE let him put someone over i think he would. I don't like it when my opinion seems to be brushed aside just because i am a fan and i would prefer someone to discuss it who wasn't a Cena fan because of how people think i'm blinded by it. I ALWAYS look into peoples opinions. See Miz. I've said it before, never used to like him he used to annoy me then he has started to impress me further and further and my mate likes him and i looked into it and gave him a chance especially after reading some peoples opinions of him on 606 and i do think he has improved alot.

theanimal316 wrote:Have to disagree with this article. It made perfect sense for Cena to announce OBL's death. It was announced to the media around the time of the main event, so chances are he was informed of it just before going out or just after the match ended. Given his close connection and genuine respect for the military, and regaining the title, it was appropriate. I don't think that was done to appease the fans.

Some people give Cena unnecessary stick at times.

It was announced before the show even started, given that at 00:01 here on Monday morning the coverage started.

Miky,

The fact you think Cena has more multiple characters is the problem. He's had the same, stagnant persona now for 6 years, maybe 7? How is that fresh or appealing.

Turning him heel would NOT be hard, Miky. It would be so easy and that's what frustrates me about you is that you can't; or don't want to see it. Surely you can actually see that whilst Cena may bring in plenty of $$$, his constant involvement in every angle and title feud has now started to have a detrimental effect on the product!