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England's golden generation - and its management

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Wed 20 Mar 2013, 12:31 pm

Recent years have shown a strong performance in U20s, U18s, U16 etc. And I'm convinced that that England has a golden generation coming through.

The key talent required for club and country managers is to recognise and and employ it when it's there.

Starting at the top, you'd have to why Johnny May wasn't started at least against Italy in the 6Ns.

The Irish p*ssed up their golden generation by clinging on to off-form players or resistant managers (and it wasn't just Declan - he held the short straw) unanswerable claims of talented on-form challengers.

Maybe the the EPS system is a failure.

Let SL (or whoever) just choose his 45 EPS Englishmen before each of the AIs, 6Ns SIs etc. That would overturn the strange arrangement that an EPS is constructed in the summer and which can only be slightly Jimmy Saviled with during the season sees peaks and troughs of form, injury etc. ignored.


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Post by fa0019 Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:07 pm

England have had the best juniors for as long as I can remember. However I do think the domestic setup hinders England.

Take a look at 3 players.

Ford, goosen and anscombe. All 3 starred in the Jrwc 2011 but George ford came home with the player of the tournament trophy. He was seen as the next big thing amongst standoffs.

1 season later whilst George ford is slugging it out in the Leicester 2nds/ filling in for flood when on test duty, goosen and anscombe were starting in their respected super rugby teams week in week out.

Goosen has already gone on to be capped and anscombe is finding his feet in his new role as fullback for the chiefs and I don't doubt his first cap is too far away. Those guys are playing regular super rugby.... Ford is playing at best 2 levels down from that.

Perhaps it's just a one off case but its odd how England can truly dominate most bar NZ at junior level but come test rugby at the moment they're struggling to compete with guys they smashed only a few years prior.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 20 Mar 2013, 2:15 pm

I think England fans are being slightly harsh on the current crop.

I think Lancaster, Farrell, Rowntree and Catt are the right management team, and I think that there's a very strong crop of players coming through in key positions.

We're starting to see the England national team run in the way that it should - forming a key nucleus to the team and building around it. Saturday was a set back, but that was a young and newly forming team coming up against a very strong Welsh side, at home and mixing ability/physicality with experience. A valuable lesson. But this England side also humbled the All Blacks at Twickenham, and although lost out on the title and grand slam, taking it down to the last game is a step in the right direction. Sir Clive Woodward had similar failings along the way. As long as the lessons are heeded, you'll continue to develop.

I say this with a heavy heart (as a Scot), but I do think that England will win the 6 Nations either next year of the following, and be in a strong place come the World Cup. Getting some of your young players on the Lions tour will also help their development greatly. The nucleus of Sir Clive's team all toured in 1997, and I think came back hugely hardened and better for it.

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Post by Geordie Wed 20 Mar 2013, 3:07 pm

I think one of the crucial aspects is part of the Woodward Legacy. Whilst he won the WC, he also failed to make plans for the future. Thus when so many critical players retired on mass...and other were fatigued / injured constantly...there was litterally no players ready to come in.

For this reason successions of managers have not had a settled side to bring the youth successfully into.

Only MJ started to try and get that...and SL appears to be targetting the same...a core of settled experienced starters...which is a great environment to bring the new young guns into.
The Wales result aside, this young England squad are getting the basics right..now they need to push on with a few other parts of their games.

Hopefully the Argentina tour can see the next stage in its development with the introduction of a few more skilled players...like May, Wade, etc.

But Lancs wont make too many changes...(after his initial cull of players) its very much become more evolution not revolution.
I actually have a little hope that things will work out.


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Post by LondonTiger Wed 20 Mar 2013, 3:33 pm

With the number of players in the system, England shoudl always be good at age group level.

With a perpetual conveyor belt through the age groups the skill is not in producing half decent U20/18 sides but on identifying which are the 4 or 5 players who could go on to be good international players.

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