Augusta - Always the same, only different...

I guess many of you may already have seen it but some of the evolution of Augusta National GC is reported in the article via the below link.

What's your favourite hole/incarnation of it?

What changes would you propose?

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/georgia/augusta-changes

13th for me. All the incarnations keep the basic design. Great risk/reward hole and always a big hole on the Sunday.

I have seen this a few times but it is always an interesting page to have a look at.

It is difficult to pick a favorite hole but in general I like the look of the course pre 1950's. The wiggly bunkers look cool and there appear to be less of them. I am not a fan of the very manicured look of the current Augusta so maybe the earlier course was a little more basic looking.

So in terms of improvements I would remove trees (especially the one in the middle of the 17th fairway), hack down the flowers and lessen the lushness of the grass.

I wonder how they can call Augusta historical when it's nothing like it was back in the days..?

Yes, also TOC has been changed, but not with trees etc.

I would remove all the rough and play the course as it was meant to be played, regardless of length.

Great shout by nbs to place a preservation order on #13, and I'd add #12 also.

Then return #7 to the short Par-4 it was originally designed to be..

I love the spectacle of the place in bloom and, generally, like the modern incarnation of the course. My favourite week of the golf viewing year (well until BBC lost the first 2 days as I am sky-less).

Would love to have a go of the original and the current layout to compare and contrast.

Ahhh, imagine a free pass for the Monday immediately after it's finished. Four-ball of your choice and tournament spec/condition course. Yes a cliched hypothetical scenario but sod it I'm getting in the mood for a major.

My first choice would (honestly) be the 4 ball I play in most Saturdays as an experience. Great laugh like we have week in week out and someone with whom the experience could continually be shared. Gross medal score of 147 (yes, probably as good as I could get for 18 round there) to win it on the back 6...

Otherwise, Woods (to SR's agreement - this week..) & McIlroy (both on form) to watch the 2 best current players live and Noel Gallacher (just like his sense of humour)

I don't understand this generally accepted principle that a 10 handicapper couldn't break 100 round Augusta (or many other famous courses). Just how rubbish do you have to be? Yes, the greens are tricky, but how bad would a 10 handicapper need to be to take a whole extra putt per hole? Some holes, especially early on, maybe, but at the end of the day it's a golf course with fast, undulating greens. You'd learn soon enough. It's long, but with no real rough and plenty of holes where there's no water or ob to really penalise loose shots. I'd back myself to shoot mid 90s at very worst there.

Alan Hansen went round Augusta in 77, first time out, never having been there before. He's a good player but this "amateurs couldn't break 100" is just nonsense.

I thought that comparison was only used for exceptionally difficult US open type set-ups, has that been said of Augusta?

Ive never spotted any rough to speak off pine straw is a different type of surface to play from.Always enjoy the 2 par threes on the back nine sunday with 16 sucking the ball down or leaving it up on the top shelf.Only recent years have we got to see the front nine on Tv and some idea of the level changes.
Old friend (RIP)was the manager of the next door municipal and he played it many times in some illustrious company also one oif the first white caddies ironically caddied for a south african.What a great experience

This is the link to the write up from Alan Hansen from the BBC in 2006 (surprised to see the story is still up). If I have messed up the link, Google "Alan Hansen Augusta" and it's the first link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/4871810.stm

I played off the members' tees, which add up to about 6,300 yards. The Masters course is about 7,500 yards. I went round in 80 and 77, and thought I had played better than 80. I came off wondering how I had got an 80 having played so well.

I won't bother with my score off the tournament tees. We started off scoring but in the end I lost count. It was just too long and too tough, but what an experience.

From tales I have heard Hansen is/was a bit of a bandit off 3. I have no idea what "I lost count" means to him (it may only be after a couple of doubles in a row) but if he's calling the back tees too tough and too long I can see how I could pop 100 plus round there (I'm currently off 5 albeit on a relatively short, open course so say 9/10 on a tough one).

There seems to be a very good standard of golfers on here so sub 100 for you guys may well be eminently possible. Given the pace and the slopes, I don't think one extra shot per hole to be too out of the question though. Especially if you leave the ball in the wrong place on the green with your approach or chip.

I think my favorite holes are #2 and #10. I like downhill holes that go right to left.

That said, I would probably get rid of the big fairway bunker on #10 that no one ever hits into. All it does is penalize the higher handicappers.

At 7500 yards I doubt any of us would have less than a 6 iron into a par four more than once or twice. Many time we would be unable to reach the par 4's in two or would be hitting a long hybrid or wood into the green.

One thing we can be certain of is that Dr MacKenzie would have designed the course with the intention of making it playable for all levels of player. The encroachment of trees, lengthening of the holes and ridiculously high green speeds may all have removed playability to for the higher handicap golfer.


GPB

Have you played Augusta or watched any high handicappers play the course?

Would love to play Stoke Park circa Goldfinger 1963.

Would have been Stoke Poges back then super.Played it a few times with a lady friend cannot remember too much about the course(I was more interested in the lady) but the clubhouse was magnificent.Pretty sure it has changed hands a few times over the years.
Augusta at 6300 yards would be good probabaly worth 12 or so shots to the club player over the back tees

Stoke Park is better now than it was in the 1960s. There have been a few changes to the closing holes which makes it better. I think the heyday for Stoke Poges (as it was) was the 1930s. There was a hole over water (partly recreated now) - maybe the 15th or so - which was supposed to have been an absolute beauty.

Stoke Park... beautiful clubhouse, some picturesque holes around the lake, iconic par 3 7th hole which MacKenzie copied when he designed Augusta, but overall an average course. At least 10 forgetable holes.

If you want to play a Mackenzie course, try Buxton.

I once 5-putted one of the greens.

Probably the nearest I'll come to appreciating Augustas greens is playing Pasatiempo just outside Santa Cruz in California. Dr MacKenzie considered it his finest work and indeed saw out his final years in a house overlooking the 6th fairway. It was playing in Pasa's opening 4ball the Bobby Jones decided that the good Dr was the man to design Augusta so there are a few similarities.
There's a big display in the clubhouse detailing MacKenzie's design principles, fascinating & informative read.

For the record, the first year I played Pasa I'd been in Hawaii and averaged 31-32 putts per round. I then went down to the Monterey peninsula afterwards and averaged 31 putts over 3 rounds...in between was Pasatiempo...39 putts!!!
Now that's in winter when the greens are "slow".
So extrapolating that to Augusta in spring I can quite easily see 10 extra shots (putts) being added to a score. Add the length and yeah I can see the potential for big numbers.

I too love the 12th & 13th. The 16th is never short of a bit of drama either. With more blanket coverage and the advent of 3d TV I wonder if our perceptions of some holes will change.

Does the wind not blow at Augusta then?

SetupDeterminesTheMotion wrote:If you want to play a Mackenzie course, try Buxton.

I once 5-putted one of the greens.

And I'm sure it was the architect's fault

To my knowledge, only MacKenzie course I have played is Hadley Wood in north London. You can see how some of the design principles are echoed at Augusta, although the greens aren't overly scary there.

Alister MacKenzie would not have anticipated that the speed of greens would have increased so much when he built courses like Augusta. I have played Hadley Wood, Alwoodley and Pitreavie in dry summers when some of the greens are almost unputtable. All of those MacKenzie courses have had to take some of the slopes out of greens because these days people expect fast greens (like they see on tv), but course designers could never have anticipated that when they built them. Same goes for Harry Colt courses - the 4th on the High Course at Moor Park has such a big slope that you can't keep the ball on the green when putting downhill if they cut it too fine.

Even into the 1980s, the greens at Augusta weren't as fast as they are now. The Stimp of Open course greens was regularly 9 or 10 until relatively recently.

Golf predates lawn mowers - sheep couldn't cut the grass that short. Maybe there needs to be a moratorium on greens equipment as well as golf equipment.

Pleased to finally see confirmation of what the BBC will be showing this year, being comparable to last year (whereas I'd read something somewhere suggesting they were not going to have any golf coverage from now on other than the men's and women's Opens).

Even more pleased that there aren't any celebrity/novelty presenters or interviewers listed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/golf/16655164

SetupDeterminesTheMotion wrote:If you want to play a Mackenzie course, try Buxton.

I once 5-putted one of the greens (the 2nd green has many humps & hollows).

Forgot Pitreavie was a Mackenzie as well.

Just to balance my 5-putt story. Played Pitreavie a few years back & started birdie, birdie, par, par went on to win our outing easily.

McLaren wrote:GPB

Have you played Augusta or watched any high handicappers play the course?

No, I have not played ANGC but I attended a practice round there in 1987.

I think I have watched every Masters for the last 37 yrs, I don't believe I have ever seen anyone in fairway bunker on #10.

I used to play a golf tournament every year in Hot Springs Ark. A gambling tournament. There was an uphill 225 yd par 3 from the tips, 200 yds from the member tees and 150 yds from the forward tees. A really tough par 3. About 40 yds short of the green was a huge bunker, off to the right.

All that bunker was going to do is penalize poor players. Good players were almost ever going to hit a shot into that bunker. I go by that bunker and say "What's the Point?"

My idea of course design is to make hazards in play for low and high handicappers.

Ever heard the saying 'the drive bunker'often found on the older courses