Clermont v Munster

27 Apr 2013 - Stade de la Mosson in Montpellier 5pm

Munster: F Jones; K Earls, C Laulala, J Downey, S Zebo; R O’Gara, C Murray; D Kilcoyne, M Sherry, BJ Botha; D Ryan, P O’Connell capt; P O’Mahony, T O’Donnell, J Coughlan. Replacements: D Varley, W du Preez, J Ryan, B Holland, P Butler, C Sheridan, I Keatley, D Hurley.

ASM team:

1.Domingo, 2.Kayser, 3.Zirakashvili, 4.Cudmore, 5.Hines, 6.Bonnaire, 7.Bardy, 8.Chouly, 9.Parra, 10.James, 11.Nalaga, 12.Fofana, 13.King, 14.Sivivatu, 15.Byrne.

Remplaçants : 16.Paulo, 17.Debaty, 18.Ric, 19.Pierre, 20.Lapandry, 21.Radosavljevic, 22.Buttin, 23.Nakaitaci ou Skrela.

Munster have not a snowballs chance in hell of winning this in all reality. Clermont are on something of a destiny mission to win the HC after being the nearly men for 4 years. Heartbreaking defeat to Leinster last year in the semi final will be the extra motivation not that they need it.

They are unbeaten in 59 games at the Stade Marcel Michelin (albeit not playing there this weekend but are still the home team), just hammered Toulouse 37 12 and even managed to draw away to Toulon the week before 26 26.

They have one of the biggest budgets in European Rugby if not the biggest. So much so they were able to rest 12 of the HC QF team against Toulouse. Power, pace agression all over the park. Only positive is that Rougerie and Brock James are doubtful.

Munster will probably name same team that beat Quins (unless Dougie and Earls are back which looks unlikely).

A massive invasion of the Red Amry is underway with Munster looking for 5,000 tickets (double that of Leinster request last year ) and with Sponsors etc it might be even more than that.

Time to unleash the Dogs of War - C'Mon Munster SUAF

It would be the biggest upset of the season if Munster could pull out a win. The performance of Clermont's second XV away to a full strength Toulon was nothing short of amazing. It s not the fact that all their backs can finish tries, or that their movement and handling skills are on a different level from the opposition, its their work at the contact which is most impressive. This was the area that Munster convincingly won against Quins.
Just cannot see it happening again for the men in red. ASM's medical jocker at 10, Mike Delaney, has slotted in seamlessly to the team and was outstanding against Toulose. Even without James or Rougerrie ( who hobbled off with a muscle strain) the yellow machine have too much quality for Munster, or anyone else, this year.
I predict they will do the hardest double in world club rugby: Heinekin cup and the Bouclier de Brennus.

Munster by 3

Any team that keeps Regan King onthebench is seriously strong.

sensisball wrote:It would be the biggest upset of the season if Munster could pull out a win. The performance of Clermont's second XV away to a full strength Toulon was nothing short of amazing. It s not the fact that all their backs can finish tries, or that their movement and handling skills are on a different level from the opposition, its their work at the contact which is most impressive. This was the area that Munster convincingly won against Quins.
Just cannot see it happening again for the men in red. ASM's medical jocker at 10, Mike Delaney, has slotted in seamlessly to the team and was outstanding against Toulose. Even without James or Rougerrie ( who hobbled off with a muscle strain) the yellow machine have too much quality for Munster, or anyone else, this year.
I predict they will do the hardest double in world club rugby: Heinekin cup and the Bouclier de Brennus.

I don't disagree with you but Delaney isn't eligible for this game

Heard Brock James will be back for the game.

Given that the final is in Dublin this year it would be nice to see some Irish representation there however, its hard to see Clermont losing this one.

Munster do it and it'll make the Irish season for me...especially when everyone outside Ireland have a fair feeling they'll be thrashed. That's a pretty common thought inside Ireland too but, God, I'd be laughing if old muck'n'spuds pile-driving Munster killed the proud Golden Goose for one more year.

A manufactured side of perfection against a family run circus on a ripped-tent budget. It's David and Goliath.

Good luck Munster.

Can Munster possibly target the Clermont lineout?

beshocked wrote:Good luck Munster.

Can Munster possibly target the Clermont lineout?

POC could target any lineout however, Bonnaire, Cudmore and Hines are very good in the lineout themsleves. Id say Clermont have more options there.

It will be interesting to see POC take on his auld buddy Cudmore again

rodders wrote:It will be interesting to see POC take on his auld buddy Cudmore again

Yep. A good old punch up would be nice.

Useless fact. Did you know Cudmore's brother is an actor in the Twilight series and Xmen?

That is indeed a useless fact ....

rodders wrote:That is indeed a useless fact ....

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:It will be interesting to see POC take on his auld buddy Cudmore again

Yep. A good old punch up would be nice.

Useless fact. Did you know Cudmore's brother is an actor in the Twilight series and Xmen?

Yes, he played Colossus in X-men 2.

This is going to be a smasher of a game, 6 bells on Saturday, perfect boozing time too...

Munster will probably target the rucks as the only recipe for success against clermont right now is to prevent them having quick ball. I was impressed by how easily they scored 4 tries against Toulouse despite not having much of the possession and being dominated in the 2nd half.

Well...

IF Munster can put out the same pack as against Quins, and said pack clicks in the same way as against Quins, they'll keep the score respectable. Which is single figures, preferably a 1 score game, but that will be tough.

As mentioned for all the reasons above, Clermont are a good side and against Montpellier they were under pressure and on the back foot and came through it in the end quite comfortably. In short they have the quick gave grafted to a low range gear-box when needed.

Our backline will be interesting. If we go with ROG then TOD/POM and Downey will have to shore up the 10-12 channel, with Murray required to have another excellent all-round game in defence etc. If Penney goes with Keatley, who was pretty assured against Leinster, then the backrow and Downey will have a little less extra work to do but will require superlative performances nonetheless.

While ROG still knows what to do, it is his execution this season that has tapered off, Keatley can have a glass jaw at times but I think the Leinster game will have filled him with huge confidence and lets face it, 10 of Munster's 16 points that day came from him, ROG would not have set up/score those tries the way Keatley did. So Penney will have to evaluate the cost/benefit analysis of each outhalf.

Or he could go balls-to-the-wall and start JJ and see how the young guy can manage himself and his all round game, with ROG on the bench for the last 15 mins to play territory and close out the win (shifting JJ to 12, so he gets a full 80 mins of HC rugby)...... I can but dream!

Realistically though, a pumped up performance with good execution of what Munster can do and a decent scoreline and I'll be resonably happy. Resonably. I still hate losing even against teams as good as Clermont.

I hope Munster can do it but I give them very little hope at all, I'm afraid. Clermont are just better everywhere

Mickado wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:It will be interesting to see POC take on his auld buddy Cudmore again

Yep. A good old punch up would be nice.

Useless fact. Did you know Cudmore's brother is an actor in the Twilight series and Xmen?

Yes, he played Colossus in X-men 2.

This is going to be a smasher of a game, 6 bells on Saturday, perfect boozing time too...

Mick, it's six bells local time and that's five bells our time I do believe, so unless you want to miss the first half suggest you leg it from RDS to a congenial alehouse for 5pm KO.

brennomac wrote:

Mickado wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:It will be interesting to see POC take on his auld buddy Cudmore again

Yep. A good old punch up would be nice.

Useless fact. Did you know Cudmore's brother is an actor in the Twilight series and Xmen?

Yes, he played Colossus in X-men 2.

This is going to be a smasher of a game, 6 bells on Saturday, perfect boozing time too...

Mick, it's six bells local time and that's five bells our time I do believe, so unless you want to miss the first half suggest you leg it from RDS to a congenial alehouse for 5pm KO.

Duely noted. Much obliged sir.

Clermont may be nervous and make mistakes. This is my hope. It is a small hope but I think if they go a long time without scoring a try then nerves may get to them.

Bad news! Sherry is likely to be out with tonsillitis, Pom doubtful with hip injury, Downey doubtful with hand injury. Dougie and archer all ruled out!

In some good news Earls did a full contact session yesterday.

No O'Callaghan either.

Sherry and POM would be massive losses. I've a feeling Munsters pack can get the better of the Clermont pack but they need their best players playing.

Who's Munsters 3rd TH?

John Ryan? Alan Cotter? Botha wil have to play 75 mins.

Starting to look like a car crash now with all the injuries (if true) I was starting to think that Munster could give them a good go.

Will be the miracle match to beat all others if they do it now.

Would keatly play 12 if Downey and earls are out?

Not much talk on this thread this week. Have the Munster fans sold their computers and phones for match tickets?

To the brave and faithful...

Strange indeed Mick. This one has 'upset' written all over it .

I hope so Rods!

Mickado wrote:I hope so Rods!

Do you mean upset Munster fans?

GunsGerms wrote:

Mickado wrote:I hope so Rods!

Do you mean upset Munster fans?

Glasgow put 50 past us! God knows what CA are capable of scoring!!!!! At least there'll be a bit of craic in the South of France

GunsGerms wrote:

Mickado wrote:I hope so Rods!

Do you mean upset Munster fans?

Don't put words in my mouth! (on my fingers?)

I hope Munster win, obviously. It would be a huge win, Clermont are a serious team but if Munster can stick with them and land a sucker blow they could win it. Sure Leinster almost managed a win in the SMM this year, and we were bollixed with injury, if Munster can get a few players back to fitness and hit the top of their game, it's not out of their reach.

You will be up against the best centre in the world if you ask me:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=s62wp4zyMlA

See his try v Toulouse on the weekend. The guy is unstoppable.

That try was something else in fairness...

Mickado wrote:That try was something else in fairness...

Downey and Mafi-v2 are going to have their work cut out.

If Downey and POM are out, we don't have any chance because we'll need to contain them in order to put them under pressure. Sherry would be a huge loss as Varley can't hit a barn door with a banjo at times in the lineout, which will have to be a source of secure ball, ever before we think of competeting on theirs.

Hopefully the number that Leinster did on our lineout maul will have been gone over with a fine toothed comb so as to avoid Clermont doing the same.

As for options if Downey is gone, well Keatley to 12 with Casey or Earls at 13 or Casey at 12 and Earls at 13. Dougie not being there will mean a huge loss of experience but Hurley while very unexciting is a good sized winger which is a help against that backline.

Not having Donners on the bench would be a huge loss as I cannot see both POC and Ryan playing the full 80 (and being capable of it i mean) against that beast of a pack.

Who'll be the back row sub? Butler?

Maul is the only area I see munster supremacy. Possibly breakdown if they at their most 'pumped'.

Mick is right, we nearly got them in the smm. We had injuries injuries too. You guys should be aiming for a win. I've no idea how youwill get it but you got to believe I guess.

Ah Pete, we believe, we're just not being bullish and it is no false modesty to want your best team to be available, and losing Downey or POM would be huge huge losses, Sherry would be significant too, perhaps even the most crucial if Varley has a shoite day out of touch.

I mean, even if Botha gets a small blood injury, If he misses one or two scrums while getting stitched we could conceed a lot of points as a result.

So ye, because of all of the above and the uncertainty of injury, we'll go and win this one by 8 points.

to the Brave & Faithful, Nothing is Impossible!!!!!

C'MON MUNSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The win won't come from trying to be smart, or indeed trying to be predictable route one. I don't think tactics will be as important as psychological intent.

The win, I think, will come if Munster are in a real mood simply to drag Clermont into a war. A classic 80 minutes of tortuous intensity of never conceding a blade of grass that you don't make the Clermont guys sweat ever inch for. A heavyweight fight where all players put bodies on the line and keep the fury going for 80 - disregarding anything the scoreboard might be doing. Munster HC rage for 80 regardless of scoreline.

Go down in a true classic if that's what fate ordains but at least a war will offer hope that the conclusion might not necessarily be defeat. Drag Clermont into the toughest physical game they've endured all season and see where their resolve is. Make them prove they're the best.

You're almost 100% right Secret, but we'll have to have tactical nouse too, it can't all be 'give it a lash' passion plays. Smart rugby. Sorry, Smart-but-brutally-intense rugby, will put is in with a chance, and while this particualr side isn't the one that has your Miracle matches in its legs, the genetic memory is there, as seen in Quins. The fans will be there. We'll be singing and roaring them on and with that controlled fury we might just rattle Clermont and should they win, they'll have had to earn the right first. Munster will leave its mark no doubt, it just remains to be seen how deep he emotional scar will be.

This match kind oif reminds me of the Saracens match from 2008. Lets hope he result goes the same way!

SecretFly wrote:The win won't come from trying to be smart, or indeed trying to be predictable route one. I don't think tactics will be as important as psychological intent.

The win, I think, will come if Munster are in a real mood simply to drag Clermont into a war. A classic 80 minutes of tortuous intensity of never conceding a blade of grass that you don't make the Clermont guys sweat ever inch for. A heavyweight fight where all players put bodies on the line and keep the fury going for 80 - disregarding anything the scoreboard might be doing. Munster HC rage for 80 regardless of scoreline.

Go down in a true classic if that's what fate ordains but at least a war will offer hope that the conclusion might not necessarily be defeat. Drag Clermont into the toughest physical game they've endured all season and see where their resolve is. Make them prove they're the best.

A repeat of the 2004 Wasps v Munster epic would be great please.

This was the greatest Heineken cup match of all time IMO.

debaters1 wrote:This match kind oif reminds me of the Saracens match from 2008. Lets hope he result goes the same way!

Although of course the Munster of 2008 was appreciably stronger than the Munster of 2013. Whilst that Saracens side you faced, I doubt any of them would get into the current side (seeing as Richard hill back then was on one leg at the end of his career) and the current Sarries side is not as strong as Clermont.

It is not an impossible goal - but even if Munster perform the best they have done this season they still need Clermont to be under par.

GunsGerms wrote:A repeat of the 2004 Wasps v Munster epic would be great please.

May be fun for the neutral, not sure Munster fans would enjoy entering the last 10 minutes with a 10 point lead and then losing.

Unleash Peter O'Mahony et al to start a big punch up in the first few minutes to rattle Clermont.

red_stag wrote:Unleash Peter O'Mahony et al to start a big punch up in the first few minutes to rattle Clermont.

If POM makes it, maybe an aul "99" Call might be in order. They can't send them all off....

red_stag wrote:Unleash Peter O'Mahony et al to start a big punch up in the first few minutes to rattle Clermont.

I wouldnt fancy POMs chances v Bonnaire, Hines, Cudmore, Vosloo or even Morgan Parra.

Guns - he doesn't need to win the fight. Thats just being overly traditional.

Nah just rattle them and put them off their game. Maybe get one of their players carded. Or get the ref to give both teams a warning and when the Clermont guys come looking for retaliation they'll cop a card!

By stomping in the grass we can frighten the snakes

In Ireland v South Africa this Autumn, JP Pieterson did this very well when he took out our winger off the ball and caused a big punchup. Halted Irelands momentum.

red_stag wrote:Guns - he doesn't need to win the fight. Thats just being overly traditional.

Nah just rattle them and put them off their game. Maybe get one of their players carded. Or get the ref to give both teams a warning and when the Clermont guys come looking for retaliation they'll cop a card!

By stomping in the grass we can frighten the snakes

In Ireland v South Africa this Autumn, JP Pieterson did this very well when he took out our winger off the ball and caused a big punchup. Halted Irelands momentum.

Or when Eben Ezebeth knee'd Sexton in the head.

It is a good idea but dont forget Messers Hines and Parra are experts in winding opposition up too.

I think this could be the 1st time in my life I'll see a Munster pack get obliterated. Their strength up front is normally awesome but Clermont just seem to crush every pack of forwards that comes before them. It'll be cracking tussle up front.