Heineken cup final 2013 - WHO DO YOU WANT TO WIN?

Dublin - 18th May.

Two teams based in France and that's about as French as it gets.
Two teams full of Fijians, Kiwis, Ozzies, Saffers English and Welsh.
I think there may be a token French representation somewhere.

Two "French" clubs in the final does not reflect the state of French rugby as shown in the six nations.
Just as a Man City v Arsenal champions league final would not reflect English football doing well.

Great if you're a fan of one of these clubs. It's very hard to find a balance where you can have domestic success and international success. We've conceded in Wales that our international game is more important, out regional game sucks and nobody cares anyway. As long as Wales have a good six nations most people are happy.

Ireland have come the closest to having a good international side at the same time as having domestic success.

Personally I want Clermont to win as they play the most attractive rugby.

T1000... Did you realise there is a club section? Otherwise would vote for Clermont as probably 99% of the folks here.

Clermont - when Hines has a stormer in the final and isn't selected for the Lions (both of which are near certainties, in my poor, misguided opinion), I shall start a one-eyed, whinging parochial thread in order to call Wazza all kinds of nasty names and question not only his parentage but his sanity.

Cannot wait.

whocares wrote:T1000... Did you realise there is a club section? Otherwise would vote for Clermont as probably 99% of the folks here.

Don't care either but still surprised by how popular Clermont are with neutrals compared to Toulon.

Both similar salaries. Both packed with foreigners. I suppose the differences are that Toulon signs much older, experienced foreigners whereas Clermont signs younger foreigners with more potential.

Clermont is play in a more attacking style. Still it amazes me that even though they are essentially money bags themselves they escape from criticism.

t1000,

I've moved this to the Club section.

I think it will be a closer scoreline than it would have been if a non-French side was involved.
Voted for Toulon (because they have nice marinas) but I believe Clermont probably deserve to win the Final - and they should do so by about 7-10 points.

I've gone for Toulon, even though they play boring as fook rugby.

Jonny Wilko is a good egg and a Heino win would complete his trophy collection.

Clermont would be very deserving winners though and have been one of the outstanding teams over the past few years.

Who's got the most Saffers?

Toulon I think. Bakkies, Rossouw and v. Niekerk.
Not sure if ASM have any... a couple in the squad but not starters?

Vosloo is a saffer although he's french qualified now

Then Toulon it will be.

Three of my favourite BOks.

I want Clermont to win. Toulon are an awful excuse of a rugby team. Toulon games are such snooze fests. Would be shocked if Clermont don't hammer them.

Pity that Leinster had Clermont in their group as I think Leinster v Clermont could have been one of the best finals ever.

beshocked wrote:

whocares wrote:T1000... Did you realise there is a club section? Otherwise would vote for Clermont as probably 99% of the folks here.

Don't care either but still surprised by how popular Clermont are with neutrals compared to Toulon.

Both similar salaries. Both packed with foreigners. I suppose the differences are that Toulon signs much older, experienced foreigners whereas Clermont signs younger foreigners with more potential.

Clermont is play in a more attacking style. Still it amazes me that even though they are essentially money bags themselves they escape from criticism.

Fair point Beshocked. Am glad someone mentions that. Toulon clearly gets more attention by signing big names but their budget is similar to asm ones. That said Clermont at least develop players while toulon will rather flog their young academy prospects (fickou, maestri before) and sign some 30 years old from england. Just more short term orientated and part of their marketing strategy (which works by the way as they can attract decent sponsorships). Clermont signings (appart from sivivatu) have been quite low profile in comparison. Cotter tends to rely in his "bay of plenty" former players source.

Form guide would suggest it's going to be fooking close:

Sun 14 Apr 2013
Toulon 26 - 26 Clermont

Sat 10 Nov 2012
Clermont 24 - 21 Toulon

Sun 03 Jun 2012
Clermont 12 - 15 Toulon

Both are big spending clubs - I recognise a few more of the names on Toulons books so with be backing them.
Also, I see Toulon as a bit of an underdog.

When it comes to sides outside Scotland, I tend to back the one with the most Scottish players, and Clermont have had a few in recent years so I've gone with them. Currently Hines in the first team and young scrum half Murdo McAndrew in the academy, and previously Jason White and Mark Bennett.

I always think the tournament loses something when the two finalists are from the same country though.