"There's Got To Be Someone Who Plays Tennis Who Is Gay"

"There's Got To Be Someone Who Plays Tennis Who Is Gay". So says Sam Querrey.

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/05/querrey-theres-got-be-someone-who-plays-tennis-who-gay/47291/#.UYGF3spGTIU

This comes after the NBA player Jason Collins came out as gay on Monday this week. Well I suppose Querrey must be correct. But if so should any gay players shout about it? If they do presumably it's to make some sort of political point. Or should they just keep quiet and focus on their backhands and forehands? Life as a tennis pro is difficult enough without choosing to become an ambassador of gay rights.

In terms of publicity, tennis is a little different. Collins is probably in the 200-300 range of basketballers, in terms of 'the best', but because he is in a team sport, he is a lot more recognisable. If tennis' world #255 announced he was gay, his family would applaud him, I suppose, but ths general world wouldnt give a damn. Theres really only a handful of tennis players who would make headlines for being gay.

So even if Querrey was correct, it would take a fairly large star for the impact to be similar.

It's down to the individual is my view. We're all different. In another thread, there was a discussion, mainly centring on Murray and Djokovic and the way they projected themselves on court. One should not feel pressurised into letting his sexuality public if he's not comfortable with it being public knowledge.

The one thing I despise is those gossip sites, which I think Perez Hilton may be one, who actively try and out celebrities in an attempt to propogate their own agenda.

I don't think it is incumbent on anyone to share their private life unless they want to. I mean in tennis it isn't that big of a deal Tilden the best player of the 20s was gay and in fact got convicted or charged at some point for homosexual relations. Navaratilova is gay so is BJK. I think the top players probably wouldn't do it if they thought it would hurt their corporate image, but it isn't that big of a deal anymore. It isn't like they would be the first. If being out turns out to help them in terms of endorsements we may see more players coming out.

Reminds me of a funny episode in Californication a great show by the way, where the main character's Hollywood agent friend pretends to be gay because gay people are so well connected in Hollywood and he is representing a gay movie star.

The big stumbling block I think is the corporate sponsorship angle, but if a high profile player comes out he is unlikely to lose any sponsorships in our more open minded time, if a company drops a player for that reason the bad PR would kill them. And rightfully so.

In my experience, stretching across many millenia and countless civilisations, I've found that the guys who most strenuously assert their masculinity and heterosexuality turn out to be as gay as Julian Clary. So in response to the title of the OP, I would suggest that Socal is probably a gay tennis player. More power to him.

WRT Socal's point about sponsors dropping players I don't think it's so much about dropping people; many sponsors wil still be reluctant to pick up an openly gay person (as would I but that's a different story ) Particularly American sponsors and perhaps sponsors in less liberal parts of the world such as China.



emancipator

emancipator wrote:In my experience, stretching across many millenia and countless civilisations, I've found that the guys who most strenuously assert their masculinity and heterosexuality turn out to be as gay as Julian Clary. So in response to the title of the OP, I would suggest that Socal is probably a gay tennis player. More power to him.

WRT Socal's point about sponsors dropping players I don't think it's so much about dropping people; many sponsors wil still be reluctant to pick up an openly gay person (as would I but that's a different story ) Particularly American sponsors and perhaps sponsors in less liberal parts of the world such as China.



emancipator

Ok? I said it wasn't a big deal and if a sponsor dropped a player for his sexual orientation they would rightfully be damned in the court of public opinion. Do the English know how to read English?

socal1976 wrote:

emancipator wrote:In my experience, stretching across many millenia and countless civilisations, I've found that the guys who most strenuously assert their masculinity and heterosexuality turn out to be as gay as Julian Clary. So in response to the title of the OP, I would suggest that Socal is probably a gay tennis player. More power to him.

WRT Socal's point about sponsors dropping players I don't think it's so much about dropping people; many sponsors wil still be reluctant to pick up an openly gay person (as would I but that's a different story ) Particularly American sponsors and perhaps sponsors in less liberal parts of the world such as China.



emancipator

Ok? I said it wasn't a big deal and if a sponsor dropped a player for his sexual orientation they would rightfully be damned in the court of public opinion. Do the English know how to read English?

Huh? Now you've lost me.

Let me give you a clue - the first paragraph was tongue in cheek but given your response perhaps there is some truth to the matter

The second was making a different point to yours which is that sponsors may be reluctant to pick up (as opposed to dropping if already on their books) openly gay athletes.

It might be a good idea for you to sober up before you reply



emancipator - hello, has anyone seen BOO?

Ok emancipator whatever, you don't have a point other to claim I am drunk in your last post, do you feel better now. If I am drinking I will happily tell you about it, unfortunately no haven't had anything to drink, in fact I have a tennis match in two hours. Funny you seem so interested in my sexuality, feeling lonely are you?

I know only of those who were surrounded by rumour

Arthur Ashe
Believe it or not for some while Andy Roddick (however he proved everyone wrong)
Richard Gasquet

Plenty of women though. :

HM Murdoch wrote:

Andy looks well keen. Novak a bit unsure. It's like he wants to kiss him, but doesn't want to upset Tipsaravic.

One day, Djoko will actually kiss someone... in very platonic way of course. I suspect it will be Rafa. At the end of a gruelling five setter, Nadal will approach the net to hug his opponent, as he does after every gruelling five setter, Nole will misread the signs, and the world will be changed forever...

kingraf wrote:One day, Djoko will actually kiss someone... in very platonic way of course. I suspect it will be Rafa. At the end of a gruelling five setter, Nadal will approach the net to hug his opponent, as he does after every gruelling five setter, Nole will misread the signs, and the world will be changed forever...

Not sure about the world kr but this forum will at any rate

Yeah Novak seems the most effectionate. I'd say Tipsy is the most likely recipient of a smacker. He looks to me like he'd be the most receptive to it, he's arguably the most metrosexual looking.

If not him Rafa or Andy.

In my head, I'd rather it was Kirilenko and Ivanovic. But that's just me lowering the tone again.

Danny_1982 wrote:

HM Murdoch wrote:

Andy looks well keen. Novak a bit unsure. It's like he wants to kiss him, but doesn't want to upset Tipsaravic.

Ha! Novak is a bit keener in this one:


Simulated homo-erotica aside, although the Novak-Andy friendship is over-stated, there does appear to be closeness in their congratulations. It's much briefer with Rafa and totally perfunctory with Roger.

But I'm digressing again!

HN, thing is I think Nole would do it in such a manly way (maybe rip his shirt afterwards and roar?), that everyone will start discussing why guys dont kiss each other more often

Danny_1982 wrote:In my head, I'd rather it was Kirilenko and Ivanovic. But that's just me lowering the tone again.

Danny, start a thread. This deserves to be discussed at greater length....

www.fansshare.com/gallery/photos/168154/Embrace-Nadal-Novak-Djokovic-Girlfriend/

kingraf wrote:HN, thing is I think Nole would do it in such a manly way (maybe rip his shirt afterwards and roar?), that everyone will start discussing why guys dont kiss each other more often

Actually in Spain its not unusual to see men do the "double" kiss both cheeks..Though I notice that the Spanish tennis players don´t enter into such demonstrative behaviour more "back and chest patting"

I think someone's private life should be their private life.

However, if someone wishes to take a sponsor's money and project an image which is contrary to their true selves and what they do in their private life, I think that they are fair game to be exposed. I recognise that there's a lot of devil in the detail there - I'm not talking about nuanced impressions, but glaring and effectively dishonest contradictions. I.e. if Beckham wants to sell himself as a devoted family man and husband he can't complain about coverage of Rebecca Loos.

I couldn't give a monkey's who is gay or not...in picket-fence, 2.4 kids, god-fearing America I guess this type of outdated speculation still makes news. Clearly the top 100 should have around 9-10 gay men given the 10% homosexuality rate but like I say I couldn't care less who came out in time no matter how big the name.

You cant use that theory, Lydian. Thats a general population equation, or would you have me believe 90% of all male fashion designers are straight?

Likewise you cant use that analogy...yes we know certain types of trades are more attractive to gay men...fashion, media, showbusiness...so 10% doesn't work. However, if there are no reasons for tennis being more or less attractive to gay men then I'm prepared to stick with general population rates. Or conversely, what evidence is there for deviation from the 10%? Actually...we need a correction, I believe latest studies indicate its 2-5% generally.

Well, none of them have come out and said they are gay. Thus I cant just assume some of them are gay.

I think there are loads of female tennis players who are gay. At least I hope so.

Yes, having said I couldn't give a monkeys if Julia Goerges ever comes out as lesbian that'll be a dark day in my book.

lydian wrote:I couldn't give a monkey's who is gay or not...in picket-fence, 2.4 kids, god-fearing America I guess this type of outdated speculation still makes news. Clearly the top 100 should have around 9-10 gay men given the 10% homosexuality rate but like I say I couldn't care less who came out in time no matter how big the name.

It isn't just America, is America the only place in the developed world were gay marriage is illegal or that persecution for people's sexual orientation exists. Large swaths of America or about as leftwing or liberal as Europe. In the south and rural west there are lot of people who thnk like the Christian Taliban in some parts of the country. I think if a major star comes out in tennis or in the premier league it would be big news anywhere, after all we live in a culture where the tiniest detail of celebrities life seems to take on massive importance. Someone did a thread about Bernie Tomic speeding 9 miles an hour over the speed limit.

Very funny pictures HMM, Novak is the most touchy guy in post match handshakes. Aren't they supposed to be just handshakes? And he does have a French poodle named Pierre, strike two! LOL!

socal1976 wrote:

lydian wrote:I couldn't give a monkey's who is gay or not...in picket-fence, 2.4 kids, god-fearing America I guess this type of outdated speculation still makes news. Clearly the top 100 should have around 9-10 gay men given the 10% homosexuality rate but like I say I couldn't care less who came out in time no matter how big the name.

It isn't just America, is America the only place in the developed world were gay marriage is illegal or that persecution for people's sexual orientation exists. Large swaths of America or about as leftwing or liberal as Europe. In the south and rural west there are lot of people who thnk like the Christian Taliban in some parts of the country. I think if a major star comes out in tennis or in the premier league it would be big news anywhere, after all we live in a culture where the tiniest detail of celebrities life seems to take on massive importance. Someone did a thread about Bernie Tomic speeding 9 miles an hour over the speed limit.

Very funny pictures HMM, Novak is the most touchy guy in post match handshakes. Aren't they supposed to be just handshakes? And he does have a French poodle named Pierre, strike two! LOL!

I know nothing about Serbia but it strikes me as a very macho culture. If I was male, gay and Serbian I would stay locked in the closet. Nothing would drag me out. (I do have a good imagination...)

I am enjoying reading the comments here.

Many Eastern EU countries are very intolerant of colour, race and sexuality even though they're often a melting pot of East + West. They're often very strongly male dominated so being gay would likely be seen as less dominant and inferior. I brought up USA as Querrey is from there...and it strikes me that in the Westernised world (major 8-10 countries...UK, US, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Canada, Holland, Australia/NZ) the US is for its huge size (300m+) very conservative if we discount the more liberal San Fran/LA areas. Spain/Italy are quite macho cultures too but think they have changed a lot the past 10 years or so. Often a lot of it comes down to how strongly religion has a hold in those areas.

True Lydian, I live in the LA area, about 40 miles from downtown and even here we have a huge evangelical conservative Christian population. Even in very liberal CA, by US standards if you go out of the coast area and out of the big cities by just 30 miles or 40 miles you find it becomes much more conservative and religious real fast. That being said in regards to the states it has changed enormously in the last 15 years. A slim majority now of all Americans now support gay marriages, even 5 or 10 years ago a significant majority do not.

I think it would be a big deal in the macho sports culture of even some of the more liberal countries, the media makes a big deal of a lot of inconsequential details.

Bit away from Tennis, but Greg Louganis, anyone?

They are all 'happy' people.

Louganis is one gutty guy, I mean if I busted my dome like he did on a dive I would be scared crapless on the next dive. He just lined up and nailed it. I thought he was dead when he hit the water.

socal1976 wrote:Louganis is one gutty guy, I mean if I busted my dome like he did on a dive I would be scared crapless on the next dive. He just lined up and nailed it. I thought he was dead when he hit the water.

Fantastic swimmer.

here's Got To Be Someone Who Plays Tennis
Who Is Gay"

That quote made me chuckle. Millions of people play tennis, Im sure one of them is gay...

lydian wrote:Many Eastern EU countries are very intolerant of colour, race and sexuality even though they're often a melting pot of East + West. They're often very strongly male dominated so being gay would likely be seen as less dominant and inferior. I brought up USA as Querrey is from there...and it strikes me that in the Westernised world (major 8-10 countries...UK, US, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Canada, Holland, Australia/NZ) the US is for its huge size (300m+) very conservative if we discount the more liberal San Fran/LA areas. Spain/Italy are quite macho cultures too but think they have changed a lot the past 10 years or so. Often a lot of it comes down to how strongly religion has a hold in those areas.

Some cultures have very strange (to me) ideas of what's right or wrong. Some men in my factory of a certain Middle Eastern background hold a nominal position of being highly disapproving of homosexuality but I was surprised to learn that they have completely different views of the acceptability depending on - to be delicate - which role they take in the partnership.

I've checked the main forum and I can't see the appropriate category to start the thread "There's Got To Be Someone In Ice Dancing Who Is Straight".

Will Farell?

kingraf wrote:Will Farell?

or a sex addict?

Chazz Michael Michaels was straight enough for the whole sport.

bogbrush wrote:I've checked the main forum and I can't see the appropriate category to start the thread "There's Got To Be Someone In Ice Dancing Who Is Straight".

Well, Torville and Dean did apparently have a relationship for a while, so at least he was straight.

Always thought things like ice skating or ballet would be good things for straight men to be involved with - all that totty and very little male competition that would be interested...

Sorry for the digression - back to my imaginations of Ana Ivanovic and Julia Georges in a clinch

Yep, I have similar imaginations except Ana is interchangeable with Sania Mirza. Julia isn't.

OK. I get it. This thread is now being used so that everyone can declare just how heterosexual they are... Ha ha!

hawkeye wrote:OK. I get it. This thread is now being used so that everyone can declare just how heterosexual they are... Ha ha!

Not at all, we're just making mature, balanced judgements about how much action we'd like to see on the womens tour.

hawkeye wrote:OK. I get it. This thread is now being used so that everyone can declare just how heterosexual they are... Ha ha!

Would you feel better if I said I fancied Andy Murray?

lydian wrote:Many Eastern EU countries are very intolerant of colour, race and sexuality even though they're often a melting pot of East + West. They're often very strongly male dominated so being gay would likely be seen as less dominant and inferior. I brought up USA as Querrey is from there...and it strikes me that in the Westernised world (major 8-10 countries...UK, US, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Canada, Holland, Australia/NZ) the US is for its huge size (300m+) very conservative if we discount the more liberal San Fran/LA areas. Spain/Italy are quite macho cultures too but think they have changed a lot the past 10 years or so. Often a lot of it comes down to how strongly religion has a hold in those areas.

The appearance can fake you. I also do not know how macho guys are in England, but seeing the scoreboard in girls' math competition, it shows your societies' real attitude toward women and it's male dominance.
https://www.egmo.org/egmos/egmo2/scoreboard/
1 Belarus (BLR)
1 Serbia (SRB)
1 United States of America (USA)
4 Bulgaria (BGR)
5 Poland (POL)
6 Romania (ROU)
7 Hungary (HUN)
8 Ukraine (UKR)
9 Italy (ITA)
9 Turkey (TUR)

As you can see, the first 10 nations that encourage women to be intelectually equal to men are mostly Eastern European countries. So, the perception of how some country is tolerant should be judged from different aspects and not just superficially.

I adore Novak as a person and admire him as a professional. As long as his motives are not meant to hurt anyone, I'm happy for him no matter if he turns out to be gay or hetero or metro or bi or martian.

Furthermore, as a woman I would always trust a guy more who is able to show his emotions publicly, to cry to, to kiss another men… then whose guys who are convinced that they need to hide affection and feelings. Those Eastern and Southern Europeans scare me less for that reason, then some other less macho looking guys from another place. And some of your comments on this forum are really scary.

JuliusHMarx wrote:

hawkeye wrote:OK. I get it. This thread is now being used so that everyone can declare just how heterosexual they are... Ha ha!

Would you feel better if I said I fancied Andy Murray?

Oh come on - the big gob and the crappy tufty stubble. Not exactly the new Cary Grant.

I can understand the appeal to women of Nadal or Tsonga, but Murray?

Parabola, perhaps you are being somewhat prejudiced? By the I mean;

* why do you imply other men are less attuned to showing their emotions?
* why do you equate women doing well at maths to a society encouraging women to match men? Perhaps there are other reasons (such as men diverted towards other activities).

Finally, if by 'scary' you mean the comments about the womens tour, let me let you in on a secret: that's how most men feel. Perhaps we're just a bit more inclined to show our emotions than the men you normally meet?

Gay people usually like to have their chest shaved......

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:Gay people usually like to have their chest shaved......

Does that include women

I shave my Chest! And legs! And Arm pits.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:Gay people usually like to have their chest shaved......

Does that include women

I'd say the opposite, thay'd probably like to have some hair on......