Fantasy Heineken Cup Final

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Gloucester vs. Northampton Saints
at The Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Light Rain Showers, 13 degrees, 9 mph winds.

Gloucester
Manager Mat

01. Nick Wood	09. Will Genia
02. Joe Gray	10. Dan Carter
03. Nicolas Mas
04. Tom Palmer	11. Hosea Gear
05. George Robson	12. Berrick Barnes
06. Willem Alberts	13. Matt Banahan
07. Julian Salvi	14. Jonny May
08. Imanol Harinordoquy	15. Ian Balshaw

16. Coenie Ousthuizen 17.Rob Buchanan 18. James Johnston 19Eben Etzebeth 20. Jamie Heaslip 21. Dan Robson 22. Israel Floau 23. Charlie Sharples

Tactics:

We have selected a team that has pure control at 2, 8, 9,10,12 shirts that can see us through to a win in this game. Due to the conditions we will be looking to control the game early dominating position and kicking. We
See their lacking of kicking options and lineout as key to our victory. We also
Think our subtlety and ability to
Change the game as being huge.
We can play anyway required and have
A kicking game from carter Barnes
And Genia which rules.

We have a lots of carriers throughout and also experience which matters. we have won the last 2 heinos and big games bring big pressure. having won last 2 heinos means we will
Not be affected by occasion.
so many of our players have been there
Done that so experience massive. our 8,9, 10,12 in wet conditons is huge all world class and brimming with experience.
Our pack has been chosen due to its technical ability. We see lineout as a huge win for us with launch and lawes poor operators. We will pressure them
Here massively.

We have a experienced carrying pack with subtlety and see saints as athletic but not set piece pack.

We have an impact forward bench that kills saints with world class carriers
Forward options on the bench are all powerful ball carriers or have the ability of strengthening our setpiece during the game.

Attack: Our attack will be about balance.

we will be looking to kick with genia carter barnes and pin the saints back 3. saints have no kicking options in
Wet so we
See this as massive. We also want to carry as much as a pack as possible as we have a massive bench. Coenie is scoring tries
Galore
And our reserves are world
Class.

We will look to play narrow early and kick a
Lot. However we will
Look to hit banahan at 13 wide where he has played all
Season and get his off load involved .

We will also look to exploit gear on cross kick vs wade and later folau vs anyone for tries.

Generally in wet conditions we will look to
Our options to win territory.
They have 1 kicker so we can pressure and win territory. Easy to blitz
When fofana and tuilagi can't kick.
Genia will attack fringes and try and kill them wide


Force Them in to kicking the ball to us, so we can start going through the phases and attack open field play.

Breakdown: Salvi obviously a threat, we
Have size and intelligence so kill them


Set piece: The scrum mako been getting killed
Mas to continue with Jj next up. Brutal
Lineout their Achilles heel we have Hari Robson palmer salvi. We are kicking a lot to increase number of
Lineouts and to test how can saints compete.
Lineout huge for attack.
Key Points:

* huge lineout advantage
* Very strong ball carriers to get us over the gainline and give us a great attacking platform
* Control in 2, 8, 9. 10 positions, key for a final, make right decisions, take points when on offer.
* Match winners in the backline - may carter gear Genia
* Subs bench picked for impact coenie Jj Etzbeth carry

* Experience won last 2 heinos and have more experience in team we know how to
Win they don't we are veterans of this cup!


Northampton Saints
Manager - dammit_chris

01. Mako Vunipola	09. Mike Phillips
02. Dylan Hartley(c)	10. Juan Martin Hernandez(k)
03. Carl Hayman
04. Courtney Lawes	11. Julian Savea
05. Joe Launchbury	12. Weslie Fofana
06. Samo Manoa	13. Manu Tuilagi
07. Sam Cane	14. Christian Wade
08. Sergio Parisse(c)	15. Ben Foden

Subs: 16. Tatafu Polota-Nau 17. Thomas Domingo 18. Henry Thomas 19. Julian Bonnaire 20. Billy Vunipola 21. Joe Simpson 22. Matt Giteau 23. Leigh Halfpenny

Tactics: We have selected a team that has experience in the 2, 8, 9 and 10 shirts that can see us through to a win in this game. Due to the conditions we will be looking to control the game early on, getting the ball into Gloucester territory and forcing them into mistakes.

We have a lot of power/gainline breakers in our team and will look to get the likes of Vunipola, Samoa, Fofana, Tuilagi and Savea onto the ball as early as possible and force Gloucester onto the backfoot and tying in defenders before we go wide and bring the likes of Foden and Wade into the game.

Our pack has been chosen due to the form of the players and their speed around the park, so we can hit rucks first and make sure we can clear Salvi away from the ball before he can disrupt our ball.

Forward options on the bench are all powerful ball carriers or have the ability of strengthening our setpiece during the game. Our backs are al game changers in this regard too - Halfpenny will be brought on either at fb or wing with 25mins to go to ensure we have a world class gk in the final stages to compliment Hernandez.

Attack: Our attack will be about getting our power runners onto the ball as early as possible and make Gloucester make tackle after tackle to wear them down. Vunipola, Hartley, Lawes, Manoa and Parisse in the forwards and Fofana and Tuilagi will see a lot of ball early on and we will go through the phases in the wet.

We will look to tie in Gloucester players to rucks and mauls before we look to spread the ball wide and make linebreaks, we will target Banahan's defensive positioning at 13 and see if we can exploit any linebreaks we make. The light rain will suit the power of our backline and suits a gameplan of getting over the gainline and exploiting quick ball.

When there are overlaps we will look to get the ball to Wade and get him involved in the game - have lots of attacking options to pick from and Gloucester defence will have to be on very good form.

We will be looking for Hernandez to put us in the correct areas of the pitch and not take any chances during the early stages. We will also test Balshaw's catching in the conditions by sending up high balls and getting Savea to put him under pressure & force errors. When Foloa comes on change tactics by using Hernandez's boot to test his positioning and take advantage of lack of experience and move him around a lot.

Defence: We will play a similar defensive structure to Saracens, putting the opposition under a lot of pressure with an aggressive defence that aims to force mistakes and handling errors. Defensive effort led by Lawes, Launchbury and Manoa in the pack and will look to stop Gloucester getting over the gainline, especially targeting Alberts.

Phillips playing his usual game and trying to shake up Genia and bring him into a physical battle from the outset. In midfield we have Fofana and Tuilagi, which will need something special for Gloucester to get over the gainline. Foden picked at fullback due to his defensive positioning and ability under the high ball.

Phillips to sweep behind the defensive line and add extra physicality around the fringes,

Force Gloucester into kicking the ball to us, so we can start going through the phases and attack open field play.

Breakdown: Salvi obviously a threat, so have picked a mobile pack that can get to the breakdown quicker than their counterparts and physical enough to smash Salvi off the ball. In Sam Cane we have an out and out openside who is on top form and we will look to get him to the ball before Salvi can slow it down.

Set piece: The scrum is an area that we are really looking to target initially with our front row having an advantage in terms of experience and we will look to exert some dominance here and look for penalties by targeting Wood and Gray. We will use this as a platform to attack.

Lineout we have opted for 3 mobile jumpers in addition to Parisse, and will look to give Hartley a number of options to hit (Lawes, Launch, Manoa, Parisse) and defensively we will put Lawes in front of Hari and generally make a nuisance of himself and test out Gray's darts.

Key Points:

* Great form in real life of nearly all players.
* Very strong ball carriers to get us over the gainline and give us a great attacking platform in pack and backline.
* Aggressive in defence, very strong defenders in the pack, with Fofana and Tuilagi a rock in midfield.
* Control in 2, 8, 9. 10 positions, key for a final, make right decisions, take points when on offer.
* Match winners in the backline - Fofana, Tuilagi, Wade, Savea and Foden - all can score from anywhere on the pitch.
* Subs bench picked for impact with ball carriers in the pack (TPN, Thomas, Vunipola), but players who can change a game by strengthening the set piece (Domingo, Bonnaire) as the game goes on. Backs subs picked as players who can win a game, creative spark.
* Target Gloucester setpiece from the outset and place Gray under pressure.
* Rested players well throughout last couple of weeks, have had eyes of Heineken Cup all season and only undefeated team in Europe.

---

Have an exam friday morning then straight to the airport to hit Dublin for the Final. Will do my best to predict but if I don't I apolgise

Enjoy dublin Steven great city. Love it there

As soon as teams/tactics are in Steve, I will open predos to give everyone as much time as possible to get them in. I can extend the deadline to later on the Sunday if that helps as well.

Mark

Get mine in Wednesday as I am meant to be working from home that day

Will get mine in as soon as I find out what the weather is! Be pretty much what I posted on your page though.

Looks like heavy rain for dublin on Friday. Is that what you use Pete ? Shame

Can we put a canopy over the stadium?

Will defo affect my selection I think

Friday 3pm is what I use, although I am keen for the finals to be played in good conditions so am tempted to say we will go with good conditions for this and next week as opposed to the unseasonably bad weather we are having.

Does anyone have any objections to this?

I'm happy with that, just as long as there are unseasonally strong winds whenever Dan Carter takes a kick.

Wouldn't think that was right TBH.

Personally I think we should keep it as is and go with Friday at 3. Rugby is a game open to conditions so to have all finals in perfect conditions is not right.

Heino cup final in real life scheduled to be in dross conditions

Fair enough, we'll go Friday at 3, will grab the forecast now.

Light rain showers not so bad!

Northampton Saints team for Heineken Cup Final

(Will do proper format later in the week, but up to my eyeballs in meetings rest of today and tomorrow).

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley (c)
3. Carl Hayman
4. Courtney Lawes
5. Joe Launchbury
6. Samo Manoa
7. Sam Cane
8. Sergio Parisse
9. Mike Phillips
10. Juan Martin Hernandez
11. Julian Savea
12. Weslie Fofana
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Christian Wade
15. Ben Foden

16. TPN 17. Thomas Domingo 18. Henry Thomas 19. Julian Bonnaire 20. Billy Vunipola 21. Joe Simpson 22. Matt Giteau 23. Leigh Halfpenny

1 wood
2 gray
3 mas
4 palmer
5 Robson
6 Alberts
7 salvi
8 Hari
9 Genia
10 carter
11 Gear
12 Barnes
13 banahan
14 May
15 Balshaw
16 coenie ousthuizen
17 Buchanan
18 James Johnston
19 Etzbeth
20 Heaslip
21 Robson
22 Folau
23 Sharples

Will get mine done tomoz around 10pm wanted to allow you to do tactics

Cheers Mat - I will try and get mine in for lunch tomorrow, looks like it could be a darn close game!

Northampton Saints Team
Heineken Cup Final

01. Mako Vunipola	09. Mike Phillips
02. Dylan Hartley(c)	10. Juan Martin Hernandez(k)
03. Carl Hayman
04. Courtney Lawes	11. Julian Savea
05. Joe Launchbury	12. Weslie Fofana
06. Samo Manoa	13. Manu Tuilagi
07. Sam Cane	14. Christian Wade
08. Sergio Parisse(c)	15. Ben Foden

Subs: 16. Tatafu Polota-Nau 17. Thomas Domingo 18. Henry Thomas 19. Julian Bonnaire 20. Billy Vunipola 21. Joe Simpson 22. Matt Giteau 23. Leigh Halfpenny

Tactics: We have selected a team that has experience in the 2, 8, 9 and 10 shirts that can see us through to a win in this game. Due to the conditions we will be looking to control the game early on, getting the ball into Gloucester territory and forcing them into mistakes.

We have a lot of power/gainline breakers in our team and will look to get the likes of Vunipola, Samoa, Fofana, Tuilagi and Savea onto the ball as early as possible and force Gloucester onto the backfoot and tying in defenders before we go wide and bring the likes of Foden and Wade into the game.

Our pack has been chosen due to the form of the players and their speed around the park, so we can hit rucks first and make sure we can clear Salvi away from the ball before he can disrupt our ball.

Forward options on the bench are all powerful ball carriers or have the ability of strengthening our setpiece during the game. Our backs are al game changers in this regard too - Halfpenny will be brought on either at fb or wing with 25mins to go to ensure we have a world class gk in the final stages to compliment Hernandez.

Attack: Our attack will be about getting our power runners onto the ball as early as possible and make Gloucester make tackle after tackle to wear them down. Vunipola, Hartley, Lawes, Manoa and Parisse in the forwards and Fofana and Tuilagi will see a lot of ball early on and we will go through the phases in the wet.

We will look to tie in Gloucester players to rucks and mauls before we look to spread the ball wide and make linebreaks, we will target Banahan's defensive positioning at 13 and see if we can exploit any linebreaks we make. The light rain will suit the power of our backline and suits a gameplan of getting over the gainline and exploiting quick ball.

When there are overlaps we will look to get the ball to Wade and get him involved in the game - have lots of attacking options to pick from and Gloucester defence will have to be on very good form.

We will be looking for Hernandez to put us in the correct areas of the pitch and not take any chances during the early stages. We will also test Balshaw's catching in the conditions by sending up high balls and getting Savea to put him under pressure & force errors. When Foloa comes on change tactics by using Hernandez's boot to test his positioning and take advantage of lack of experience and move him around a lot.

Defence: We will play a similar defensive structure to Saracens, putting the opposition under a lot of pressure with an aggressive defence that aims to force mistakes and handling errors. Defensive effort led by Lawes, Launchbury and Manoa in the pack and will look to stop Gloucester getting over the gainline, especially targeting Alberts.

Phillips playing his usual game and trying to shake up Genia and bring him into a physical battle from the outset. In midfield we have Fofana and Tuilagi, which will need something special for Gloucester to get over the gainline. Foden picked at fullback due to his defensive positioning and ability under the high ball.

Phillips to sweep behind the defensive line and add extra physicality around the fringes,

Force Gloucester into kicking the ball to us, so we can start going through the phases and attack open field play.

Breakdown: Salvi obviously a threat, so have picked a mobile pack that can get to the breakdown quicker than their counterparts and physical enough to smash Salvi off the ball. In Sam Cane we have an out and out openside who is on top form and we will look to get him to the ball before Salvi can slow it down.

Set piece: The scrum is an area that we are really looking to target initially with our front row having an advantage in terms of experience and we will look to exert some dominance here and look for penalties by targeting Wood and Gray. We will use this as a platform to attack.

Lineout we have opted for 3 mobile jumpers in addition to Parisse, and will look to give Hartley a number of options to hit (Lawes, Launch, Manoa, Parisse) and defensively we will put Lawes in front of Hari and generally make a nuisance of himself and test out Gray's darts.

Key Points:

* Great form in real life of nearly all players.
* Very strong ball carriers to get us over the gainline and give us a great attacking platform in pack and backline.
* Aggressive in defence, very strong defenders in the pack, with Fofana and Tuilagi a rock in midfield.
* Control in 2, 8, 9. 10 positions, key for a final, make right decisions, take points when on offer.
* Match winners in the backline - Fofana, Tuilagi, Wade, Savea and Foden - all can score from anywhere on the pitch.
* Subs bench picked for impact with ball carriers in the pack (TPN, Thomas, Vunipola), but players who can change a game by strengthening the set piece (Domingo, Bonnaire) as the game goes on. Backs subs picked as players who can win a game, creative spark.
* Target Gloucester setpiece from the outset and place Gray under pressure.
* Rested players well throughout last couple of weeks, have had eyes of Heineken Cup all season and only undefeated team in Europe.

Chris just back from work.straight out to work. Tactics by 9am ok? Pete said he would hold open to Sunday for predo?

Want to write bespoke tactics for the game rather than some cut and pasting.

Straight out to football I meant

Yeah fine with me.

Suits me, I'm tucked up at work, but home in the morning so will update threads then and they can stay open for predos all weekend.

Tactics:

We have selected a team that has pure control at 2, 8, 9,10,12 shirts that can see us through to a win in this game. Due to the conditions we will be looking to control the game early dominating position and kicking. We
See their lacking of kicking options and lineout as key to our victory. We also
Think our subtlety and ability to
Change the game as being huge.
We can play anyway required and have
A kicking game from carter Barnes
And Genia which rules.

We have a lots of carriers throughout and also experience which matters. we have won the last 2 heinos and big games bring big pressure. having won last 2 heinos means we will
Not be affected by occasion.
so many of our players have been there
Done that so experience massive. our 8,9, 10,12 in wet conditons is huge all world class and brimming with experience.
Our pack has been chosen due to its technical ability. We see lineout as a huge win for us with launch and lawes poor operators. We will pressure them
Here massively.

We have a experienced carrying pack with subtlety and see saints as athletic but not set piece pack.

We have an impact forward bench that kills saints with world class carriers
Forward options on the bench are all powerful ball carriers or have the ability of strengthening our setpiece during the game.

Attack: Our attack will be about balance.

we will be looking to kick with genia carter barnes and pin the saints back 3. saints have no kicking options in
Wet so we
See this as massive. We also want to carry as much as a pack as possible as we have a massive bench. Coenie is scoring tries
Galore
And our reserves are world
Class.

We will look to play narrow early and kick a
Lot. However we will
Look to hit banahan at 13 wide where he has played all
Season and get his off load involved .

We will also look to exploit gear on cross kick vs wade and later folau vs anyone for tries.

Generally in wet conditions we will look to
Our options to win territory.
They have 1 kicker so we can pressure and win territory. Easy to blitz
When fofana and tuilagi can't kick.
Genia will attack fringes and try and kill them wide


Force Them in to kicking the ball to us, so we can start going through the phases and attack open field play.

Breakdown: Salvi obviously a threat, we
Have size and intelligence so try to dominate


Set piece: The scrum mako been getting done lately
Mas to continue with Jj next up.
Lineout their Achilles heel we have Hari Robson palmer salvi. We are kicking a lot to increase number of
Lineouts and to test how can saints compete.
Lineout huge for attack.
Key Points:

* huge lineout advantage
* Very strong ball carriers to get us over the gainline and give us a great attacking platform
* Control in 2, 8, 9. 10 positions, key for a final, make right decisions, take points when on offer.
* Match winners in the backline - may carter gear Genia
* Subs bench picked for impact coenie Jj Etzbeth carry

* Experience won last 2 heinos and have more experience in team we know how to
Win they don't we are veterans of this cup!

Predictions OPEN

Good luck Chris! Hopefully not too much though

You too - should be a good game!

Gloucester 24 - 26 Saints

Slight edge to Saints up front, and give Saints the upper hand in the 2nd rows too. Think they can get some real success in the front 5. For me Alberts hasn't played enough of late, but then Manoa doesn't play 6 so no real winner here. Great 7 battle that is even, but Saints take 8. Overall I prefer Saints' pack. Gloucs take a big advantage in the HB's with their classy combo, but Saints' center combo is the best around and they dominate here. Two decent back threes that are both dangerous. Both side4s have world class benches that will aid their side. This is a great final, with two very good sides. For me, Saints have the stronger pack which is crucial in the wet, and have a back line that can take advantage.

Gloucester 27-23 Northampton Saints
Being realistic if you just go on the players either team could win on any given day, so tactics are huge in this match. Both teams want to control the game and play in opposition territory early on, which is right, but Saints have a problem with none of their outside backs having a top class kicking game. What they do have is huge power in their pack, which will compensate slightly for not being able to win the territorial kicking duel. They will be fighting in their own half a bit though, which will become hard work as the game goes on. There is a little bit more quality in the Saints outside backs, but I think they have to go from deep here which is risky with the damp conditions. 9-10-12 is where Gloucester win this game I think, with more intelligence and the right game for the conditions.

Gloucester 24 - 25 Saints

Explanations can be given when I get back from Dublin if required. Wish this was the actual final I'm going to see!

Glos 23-25 Saints
SP: Feel Saints can get the nudge on in the scrum., lineout even.
BK: Can't split these backrows here, both well balanced.
HB: Feel this is where Glos start to get an advantage.
AT: Saints appear a step up here but Glos aren't going to give away much ground.
BE: 2 very strong benches here.
TA: Glos have their tactics down well here and kicking to Saints will cause problems for the Saints back three. Saints targetting the right areas and using their big hitters well. I think it does come down to the packs and I can see Saints edging this for a good win.

Gloucester 18-16 Northampton

Scrum: Evens. Feel both LHs could struggle a little.
Lineout: Advantage Glaws with no leader for Saints and see Harri causing all sorts of problems.
Breakdown: Can’t see either side really slowing down opposition ball.
HB's: Step up to Glaws. Phillips always struggles against Genia.
Attack: Much more in the backs for Saints. One on one they can cause serious danger.
Defence: Both back 3s overall susceptible to a good kicking game.
Bench: Both sides able to change the game plan up but see Glaws getting on top at the scrum and breakdown.
Tactics: Saints playing to there strengths well but Glaws set out to kill the game off with kicking galore basically and I can see them getting some gain from it. Glaws keep it tight throughout and feel they have the pack to win out.

Jeez this is
Close Chris.
Proper final !

Glos 24-27 Saints

Gloucester 28-31 Saints

Well done Chris I thought the rain and lack of kicking in your backline would get me a win.

Rather lose to you than anyone.

Congrats you will challenge league next year

Still very much game on I think Mat! Think there are 3-4 people left to predict, but could be wrong.

Think I have been lucky with my real life Saints players hitting some form to make the AP final, and probably only Launchbury off form due to overplaying.

Your kicking game would be very good, why I had Giteau and Halfpenny on the bench so that I could bring them on and give me options there too - prob would have found a way to start Halfpenny if it was heavy rain.

Think predos are open until tomorrow, so plenty could still change!

Glaws 20 Saints 25

Chaps as a suggestion can we all give explanations for next weeks final prem final. We play all season so the finals deserve proper results with explanations.

For me every game does.
Personally would say every game should have them. I have just posted scores before so am as guilty as anyone else but its got much worse lately. It allows people to see where they need to improve and also where they are strong.
I like props predo system and would be happy with this as a standard.

Will post this on improvements for next year. It also has the double whammy of making people read tactics if they have to use props system
?

Pete has made an attempt at it already mate. There's a minimum limit to be entitled to the full prediction bonus and if your giving scores only you have to keep your predictions to 1 point winning margins for next season

Thanks SJE i am aware of this but think maybe we should be more putative ?

I struggle to get team and tactics in as friday is my day from home so next year will be tough with home team by Tuesday but I think for the integrity of the game predos and tactics matter.


You always read and reference tactics in predos and I think that should be standard

Keeps game realistic and makes tactics worthwhile.

Gloucester 28 Northampton Saints 27

Soory for no explanation, am away and limited internet. Won't be back until tomorrow evening to do results so if anyone want s to do them after 3 today then please feel free to.

Would there be a chance I could squeeze mine in later. Won't be too late!

Go for it Fluxy more the merrier. Think they are open until this evening

Gloucester 36 - 34 Northampton Saints

Tough one here, and think I'm going to be super critical and not make any friends here.
Two sides here I love to hate. Both have cracking lineups but little lack of combinations in some departments. (Also funny how you've both made an quite an effort for tactics as well...)

Anyways, up front about evens with Hartley just letting his side down under some scrummaging power. Not much power from either rows at scrum time, maybe Lawes and Launch might give a bit more, but for me they are a bit too similar in the set piece. Line out is a bit more cut and dry, despite some of Robsons form, himself and Hari will rule the skies with their experience. Back-rows is a good contest, with Saints just having a bit more form wise. But the class of the Glos flanks make up for the gap.

Out wide, class of Glos is noticeable with both in cracking form, however the class of Saints in big games does help bring out the best of their excellent centres. However I just think that they're are a little too similar in some aspects and could be easy to read. Barnes and his control will help Glos play their lineout game and bring out the best of their back three. Saints wing are in electric form and are guaranteed to at least score a try each, but question marks still exist over Foden performance. Benches are both great, and I just feel Glos have a bit more game changing quality in their bench to just, just nick it at the death with an uncharacteristic drop-goal.

Well done Chris.

Cheers Mat, you run me blooming close there, thought that it was heading towards a draw.

Was a bit lucky that some of my off form players found some form in the last few weeks and that it wasn't really heavy rain!