French "barbarians" 35 men squad for NZ

so PSA just announced the list of players that will travel to NZ next month. It was his last opportunity to try new players before his squad settle in RWC preparation mode.

Not an easy task since he cannot select too many Clermont/Toulouse/Toulon players as most of those will be involved in the T14 final a week or so before the 1st test.

8 newcomers including which 3 foreigners :
Eddy Ben Arous (prop, Racing-Métro), Alexandre Flanquart (lock, Stade Français), Camille Lopez (flyhalf, Bordeaux-Bègles), Remi Talès (FH, Castres), Adrien Planté (wing, Perpignan), Daniel Kötze (prop, Clermont), Bernard Le Roux (backrow, Racing-Métro) and Noa Nakaitaci (utility back, Clermont).

who's missing : papé , clerc (injured) and Trinh Duc (not sure why but PSA clearly said he wants a 10 that can kick well).

odd selection : Mermoz who has been doing nothing recently but warming Toulon bench. guess he will be fit at least. Michalak as usual but also should be fresh this time.

full team :

forwards(19) : Eddy Ben Arous (Racing-Métro), Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Thomas Domingo (Clermont), Guilhem Guirado (Perpignan), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Métro), Luc Ducalcon (Racing-Métro), Daniel Kotze (Clermont), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), Alexandre Flanquart (Stade Français), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Christophe Samson (Castres), Sébastien Vahaamahina (Perpignan), Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Thierry Dusautoir (Toulouse, cap.), Bernard Le Roux (Racing-Métro), Antonie Claassen (Castres), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse).

backs(16) : Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Métro), Morgan Parra (Clermont), Frédéric Michalak (Toulon), Camille Lopez (Bordeaux-Bègles), Rémi Talès (Castres), Mathieu Bastareaud (Toulon), Gael Fickou (Toulouse), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse), Maxime Mermoz (Toulon), Maxime Médard (Toulouse), Noa Nakaitaci (Clermont), Alexis Palisson (Toulon), Adrien Planté (Perpignan), Brice Dulin (Castres), Yoann Huget (Touloluse).

Not much experience at lock and fly-half,will michalak be the frontline ten and if so will we see him regain last years form.
Are there any midweek games or just the 3 tests.

Just 3 tests. The game against the blues got cancelled.

Thanks.I remember them announcing it now I think about it.why was it cancelled?

French rugby union decided there was not enough time between those games.

I thought the team looked shocking with the mediocre players and out of form ones. I sense a smashing coming from the all blacks on France. Good luck

sickofwendy wrote:Thanks.I remember them announcing it now I think about it.why was it cancelled?

they were scared.

I reckon it could well be a hell of a series and definitely worth a lot of interest. Great to have that then the Lions. Reminds me of 09 though hopefully not a repeat of NZ mediocrity then. We know enough about them to not give two hoots about any form book and they up it for games against us. Last in the 6N then beating the best team in the world. Sounds about right.

Good to see Fofana touring. He's pure class. That may keep Nonu on the park and the relative inexperience of Ranger to complement him. Then again, Hansen may be tempted to give a young kid a crack against a classy opponent just to see if he can foot it with the best.

It's by no means the best French squad available but there is enough class throughout the team to provide some enthralling match ups. For me Picamoles against Read is a mouth watering one. Can Dusatoir yet again impose himself on the NZ back row?

The French have come before with weaker teams and have won. The ABs will still be smarting over the England game and the French will no doubt be written off by the media after their wooden spoon efforts in the 6N. Add in the 2011 RWC final and this series has all the makings of a great fireworks display.

To many weak areas in that France team. Fly Half is woeful for them.

They do have a good loose forwards but I actually think the scrum will be under pressure. Mas has looked completely out of sorts hence being offloaded by Perpignan. I still question Debaty/Domingo at Loosehead as well. Given that at Lock they lack experience as well, I can see the All Blacks taking it to them in that area. Should render the quality of the French loose forwards useless. Backline for France is great but again with Michalak at Fly Half I doubt they will be used properly. Also they will have limited ball if France's front 5 get smashed. Potentially this could all be over by the 2nd test.

Mas wasn't offloaded. Perpignan were keen to keep him on but he got a bigger offer from Montpeiller who are more likely to win something anyways.

Not an easy task since he cannot select too many Clermont/Toulouse/Toulon players as most of those will be involved in the T14 final a week or so before the 1st test.

Are there any French players in those teams...

Tales and Lopez are two decent prospects at flyhalf in a different style. They are unexperienced at international level but its now or never to test them. They should hopefully get enough game time. Michalak is there because he can cover both 9 and 10 as well as kicking penalties. Am surprised Parra making the trip as he should really be rested.
The locks are decent enough although more line out experts than grunt merchants (appart from maestri). Vahaamahina is a monster and certainly one for the future. As for the front row, they will hold their own. My main worry is that domingo will probably miss the 1st game which means uncapped ben arous might step in.

Are NZ and ARGENTINA the only major nations left who haven't had any south africans in their side?

Too many foreigners. this is getting ridiculous. Im against the current laws as they stand. Its a sorry state of affairs when watching a France team a very proud rugby nation with so many South Africans.

Granted they have had various decent SH additions in the past such as the SA prop Peter DeVilliers who nabbed 60 plus caps for France or the Kiwi centre Tony Marsh who featured in the 03' WC for france but it is getting out of hand now and this should be stopped.

I think most people would agree with that.

sickofwendy wrote:Are NZ and ARGENTINA the only major nations left who haven't had any south africans in their side?

Well NZ have had plently of islanders to make up for that whereas plenty of teams have never had any.

You could argue that Andrew Mehertens was South African.

Did wales or scotland ever had any south African import?

whocares wrote:Did wales or scotland ever had any south African import?

Andries Pretorius is in the Wales squad but hasnt been capped.

GunsGerms wrote:

whocares wrote:Did wales or scotland ever had any south African import?

Andries Pretorius is in the Wales squad but hasnt been capped.

Andy Marinos was capped for Wales, (and South Africa at Rugby League 9s). He went on to be Dragons CEO - he's now SANZAR CEO & acting SARU head.

Though he also has links to Zimbabwe & Mexico.

GunsGerms wrote:

whocares wrote:Did wales or scotland ever had any south African import?

Andries Pretorius is in the Wales squad but hasnt been capped.

Hal Luscombe is South African.

Nice work. How about some Scots? I know David Denton is from Zimbabwe but cant think of any Saffers.

probably a matter of time before some South African plays for NZ given the number of Saffa's emigrating there with their families also... although these kids will have probably gone through part of the school system with NZ.

I think there is already a NZ cricketer who is one of the above.

Josh Strauss, WP Nel.... Scotland caps 2015???

Greg Rawlinson also a Saffer played for NZ.

by the way if you dont include Dion OCuinneghan who was half Irish but born in SA then the only Saffer to player for Ireland has been Ricardt Strauss who only has two caps.

Hendre Fourie, Matt Stevens, Stuart Abbott, Nick Abendanon, Brad Barritt, Mouritz Botha and Mike Catt for England
Clyde Rathbone, Daniel Vickerman and Tiaan Strauss for Australia
Brian Liebenberg, Classens and Pieter de Villiers for France
Tobias Botes, Carlo Del Fava and Quintin Geldenhuys for Italy
D.T.H. van der Merwe for Canada
Rhys Thomas and Ian Evans for Wales
Andrew Mehrtens and Greg Rawlinson for New Zealand
Richardt Strauss for Ireland

Ian Evans (lock) and Rhys Thomas (prop) (I'm pretty sure they were infants when they moved to Wales , i.e. under 5)

oh and the England cricket team (SA 2nd XI)

so in essence... Saffa's are literally vermin right???

They get everywhere and once one turns up they call their mates and you're stuck with a boatload, your national dish becomes boerewurst and bok van blerk dominates your music charts ... at least your rugby team improves.

fa0019 wrote:probably a matter of time before some South African plays for NZ given the number of Saffa's emigrating there with their families also... although these kids will have probably gone through part of the school system with NZ.

I think there is already a NZ cricketer who is one of the above.

There's 2 Saffa-born players likely to be turning out for NZ at Lords tomorrow - BJ Watling emigrated young, but Neil Wagner played for Natal and regards Faf du Plessis (SA test player) as his best friend. Kruger van Wyk lost his spot to Watling last year. There's also a fair few SA born knocking around NZ 1st class cricket.

At the last WC there were 38 NZ born players playing for other countries yet only 13 South African and 13 Australian. NZ is clearly the biggest exporter.

The numbers of SA exports do seem to be growing though.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Born-here-to-play-there-RWC-2011-squads-chocker-with-Kiwis/tabid/1534/articleID/224687/Default.aspx

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

fa0019 wrote:probably a matter of time before some South African plays for NZ given the number of Saffa's emigrating there with their families also... although these kids will have probably gone through part of the school system with NZ.

I think there is already a NZ cricketer who is one of the above.

There's 2 Saffa-born players likely to be turning out for NZ at Lords tomorrow - BJ Watling emigrated young, but Neil Wagner played for Natal and regards Faf du Plessis (SA test player) as his best friend. Kruger van Wyk lost his spot to Watling last year. There's also a fair few SA born knocking around NZ 1st class cricket.

No wonder your team has improved!!!! Although I'm not so sure they will improve your chances of winning KO trophies... Saffa's in cricket choke worse than the ABs used to be famed for.

GunsGerms wrote:At the last WC there were 38 NZ born players playing for other countries yet only 13 South African and 13 Australian. NZ is clearly the biggest exporter.

The numbers of SA exports do seem to be growing though.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Born-here-to-play-there-RWC-2011-squads-chocker-with-Kiwis/tabid/1534/articleID/224687/Default.aspx

I think there are quite a few more Saffa's playing in France though... given France have only recently started to allow foreigners into their team I think those numbers will jump. I recall Biltong gave some stats on foreigners in European leagues and SA was quite ahead.

I know a guy who played for Germany, had ancestry and represented them whilst playing pro in Italy. Previously was WP vodacom cup player... never made it beyond that though. He was a decent player.

Gael Fickou (Toulouse) - I really really want Jiffy to have to commentate on this bloke sometime soon, you know it will end up with Ofcom having complaints sent in.

Wales' RWC team will have Johan Snyman, George Earle and Jacobie Adriaanse in there too.

GunsGerms wrote:At the last WC there were 38 NZ born players playing for other countries yet only 13 South African and 13 Australian. NZ is clearly the biggest exporter.

The numbers of SA exports do seem to be growing though.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Born-here-to-play-there-RWC-2011-squads-chocker-with-Kiwis/tabid/1534/articleID/224687/Default.aspx

Tokoroa (population 15,000) had Keven Mealamu (NZ), Nicky Little (Fiji), Quade Cooper (Aus), Isaac Boss (Ire) & could have had Sean Maitland (Sco) had his timing been different

fa0019 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:At the last WC there were 38 NZ born players playing for other countries yet only 13 South African and 13 Australian. NZ is clearly the biggest exporter.

The numbers of SA exports do seem to be growing though.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Born-here-to-play-there-RWC-2011-squads-chocker-with-Kiwis/tabid/1534/articleID/224687/Default.aspx

I think there are quite a few more Saffa's playing in France though... given France have only recently started to allow foreigners into their team I think those numbers will jump. I recall Biltong gave some stats on foreigners in European leagues and SA was quite ahead.

I know a guy who played for Germany, had ancestry and represented them whilst playing pro in Italy. Previously was WP vodacom cup player... never made it beyond that though. He was a decent player.

No France have had foreigners for a long time. Abdelatif Benazzi, Peter De Villiers, Tony Marsh and Serge Betson being obvious examples. Though Betson moved to France when he was young the others seem to have been drafted in for their rugby abilities.

In any case while there have been foreigners before the flood gates seem to be opening now.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Tokoroa (population 15,000) had Keven Mealamu (NZ), Nicky Little (Fiji), Quade Cooper (Aus), Isaac Boss (Ire) & could have had Sean Maitland (Sco) had his timing been different

Had heard that alright.

What is most worrying about the whole thing for me is less the South Africans (although that does devalue the international game) but the Fijian lad named in the squad. He would have certainly played for Fiji and instead he has been bought in and now counts as a FQP and an academy graduate.

I would bet he wont be the last player who this happens to, the big french clubs have so much money that this is an easy to way to get around not developing enough players for the FFR's liking. Just buy in the talented youngsters at u19 level instead.

On the South Africans, there are so many in London, Oz and NZ, that the chances are more players with South african heritage are going to appear in other shirts as their children grow up.

Matt Proudfoot, who played for Northern Transvaal against the British Lions in 97, and is now a scrum coach in South Africa( with the Stormers?) he got 3 caps in the front row for Scotland circa 98-99. Qualified through his Dumfries born grandfather. A Massive guy (125kg) who got a bad neck injury and was never the same player again.

Isn't Dusautoir Ivorian?

No Yashvillie?

Yashvili too old
Dusautoir was born in ivory coast from a french father then moved to france and started rugby at 16 as most of his mates were playing it.

fa0019 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

fa0019 wrote:probably a matter of time before some South African plays for NZ given the number of Saffa's emigrating there with their families also... although these kids will have probably gone through part of the school system with NZ.

I think there is already a NZ cricketer who is one of the above.

There's 2 Saffa-born players likely to be turning out for NZ at Lords tomorrow - BJ Watling emigrated young, but Neil Wagner played for Natal and regards Faf du Plessis (SA test player) as his best friend. Kruger van Wyk lost his spot to Watling last year. There's also a fair few SA born knocking around NZ 1st class cricket.

No wonder your team has improved!!!! Although I'm not so sure they will improve your chances of winning KO trophies... Saffa's in cricket choke worse than the ABs used to be famed for.

From now on it will be called the double choke.

Looks like I was wrong : the game vs auckland blues will happen (11th june). A compromise was found by increasing to 26 the number of matchday players.

I wondered about that comment you made yesterday, as the tickets for the game are still being sold here.

We would have had a great little riot if all us Aucklanders had of filled Eden Park and the French team just not turned up.

Remi Tales will do a good job at 10 imo; if Michalak doesn't start there.

Allez C.O.!!