Aviva Premiership Final Preview - Leicester vs Northampton

First topic message reminder :

Saturday 25th May
Twickenham
Referee: Wayne Barnes

Well the Sold-Out signs have now gone up as demonstrated by captains Toby Flood and Dylan Hartley, and with most tickets in the hands of neutrals I suspect that most support will be for Northampton (is it me or does this picture look photo-shopped?):

Spoiler:

Expected Teams

Leicester
Mulipola, Youngs, Cole, Kitchener, Parling, Croft, Salvi, Crane, Youngs, Flood, Thompstone/Goneva, Allen, Tuilagi, Morris, Tait.

Northampton
Tonga'uiha, Hartley, Mujati, Lawes, Day, Clark, Wood, Manoa, Dickson, Myler, Elliot, Burrell, Pisi, Pisi, Foden


Match-Ups

Front Row - With Ayerza playing, Tigers have had a clear advantage over saints over the last two years. Mulipola though is not the technician that the Argentinian is, but he is strong and should be able to gain parity with Mooj. On the other side much will depend on the ref. If he allows tiny to swing out and drive inwards as he did against Sarries the Cole could struggle. If he is kept straight, then Cole has shown in the past that he can make life very difficult for Saint's departing talisman. Tom youngs will need to be on top of his game when it comes to lineouts, but expect a hell of a battle between two people who right now are competing for the bench spot for the first Lions test.

Second Row - Geoff Parling is a lock forward under-rated by fans, but loved by coaches and fellow players. Should he be partnered by Graham Kitchener, Tigers may lose a little physicality compared to Slater (who may still be injured and not risked as a starter even if fit) but gain in other areas. Courtney Lawes form has improved as the season has progressed and will look to make a real impact. His likely partner, Day, is not the most prominent second row but is highly effective.

Back Row - Northampton are likely to start with a highly physical and combative back row, looking to smash Tigers back at every opportunity. With the pace of Croft and a genuine openside in Salvi, Tigers will hope to gain an advantage here, but if they are unable to match Saints the whole match gets very interesting.

Half Backs - Ben Youngs and Toby Flood should have the experience and class to help this become a defining aspect of the game. Should tigers pack be on the front foot expect to see them keeping the tempo high and really running at Saints, whilst when Saints are in possession we can expect to see Youngs really harrying Dickson. Should Myler be sending out too many floaty passes, Flood will be looking for the intercept. Dickson is the heartbeat of the Saints team. If he is prominent their forwards will have done a job and he will be driving the team forwards. Stephen Myler, who will be buoyed by his call up to the England squad, bneeds to keep things simple, kick his goals and reduce mistakes to the minimum. With big runners outside he can rely on them to do the work.

Centres - Leroy burrell (another called up by Lancaster) and George Pisi against Allen and Manu. Mouth watering clash. George Pisi is sheer class, but will not want to remember the last meeting when Manu burned him for pace. Leicester need to look to get Manu in the game a little more, Saints will be marking him closely.

Back 3 - Both teams are better in attack than defence in the back 3. Matt Tait has improved his handling of the high ball immeasurably since December and is on a hot vein of form. Saints cannot afford to kick badly to him. Opposite number Foden has had a miserable season, Tigers fans will not want him to find form on the big day. Tigers will look to expose Elliots lack of physicality, Saints will hope his speed and elusive running hold sway.



Form
Tigers usual post 6Ns, end of season rush had an uncommon blip when they lost narrowly in Bath. Otherwise form has been excellent having won their other 6 matches since the 6Ns (and the 5 immediately before them). Saints performance levels have been up and down - veering between the excellent such as ending Ulster's unbeaten start to the season in Belfast to the crazy when being thrashed by London Irish. Recent form has seen them win 7 of their last 9 matches. They will though want to forget one of those defeats - by 28pts at home to tigers. that was the 7th win in a row for Leicester over East Midlands rivals. Tigers have a poor record in finals in recent times, but will hope to extend their streak to 8 matches.

mid_gen wrote:What happened? Watching on setanta in HK with no sound and don't know what's going on???

Madness

Hartley clearly said: "F***king cheat" after a scrum penalty against them. Barnes took it as being said to him and red carded Hartley.

Pot Hale wrote:What is it with Dylan Hartley? He's had enough incidents to know better. He said he was getting some kind of counselling in relation to anger/indiscipline issues, and he still trips the switch.

Was he talking to Barnes or accusing one of the Tiger players?

Good point. I was listening on the radio. Barnes definitely said you called 'me' but I imagine his defence was he was saying it a Tiger

HammerofThunor wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:If he's been red-carded, can a ban still be given?

Red cards trigger an automatic citing hearing. They may decide that effectively ending any chance Saints had in the final is punishment enough. They may decide to send a message that you can't abuse officials or call the cheats. Especially if he had said other things during the game.

But Hartley could claim he was saying it to one of the Tigers' players. Dunno if that makes any difference.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:If he's been red-carded, can a ban still be given?

Red cards trigger an automatic citing hearing. They may decide that effectively ending any chance Saints had in the final is punishment enough. They may decide to send a message that you can't abuse officials or call the cheats. Especially if he had said other things during the game.

If he swore at the referee, he WILL be given a fairly severe ban

Parisee got 6 weeks (? I think) but got it reduced on appeal because there wasn't very good evidence - in this case I expect Hartley will get the book thrown at him.

He could have been saying it to a Tigers player because Tonguia has been complaining all game about the scrum.

Maybe the tigers are doing something illegal at scrum time?

did Mylers kick bounce or did it go straight into touch? not that it matters now

HammerofThunor wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:What is it with Dylan Hartley? He's had enough incidents to know better. He said he was getting some kind of counselling in relation to anger/indiscipline issues, and he still trips the switch.

Was he talking to Barnes or accusing one of the Tiger players?

Good point. I was listening on the radio. Barnes definitely said you called 'me' but I imagine his defence was he was saying it a Tiger

That's what Hartley said to Barnes when he got the card. And looking at it on screen, Hartley is not looking at Barnes, he says it looking down at the ground - possibly at a specific Tigers player.

Hello lovelies, can anyone inbox me a working link to the match? Poor student in a rugby hating town, thanks.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Tuilagi and Tom Youngs aren't doing their Lions chances much good

Dunno about Manu, he got caught out once by a classy bit of backs play. Has otherwise played pretty well. Tom Youngs is having a good game other than at the lineout where he's made a couple of crap throws.

Haven't been impressed with Tuilagi's defence, he has been caught on the outside to much. Young is good in the loose, but his lineout throwing is a serious issue.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:He could have been saying it to a Tigers player because Tonguia has been complaining all game about the scrum.

Maybe the tigers are doing something illegal at scrum time?

Apparently they don't do that. They're the only team in the world that actually scrum properly.

Hartley gets carded for swearing at the ref but Richard Cockerill and Geordan Murphy can stand screaming at the 4th and 5th officials for the whole first half and dont stop even when told to? Double standards

HammerofThunor wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:He could have been saying it to a Tigers player because Tonguia has been complaining all game about the scrum.

Maybe the tigers are doing something illegal at scrum time?

Apparently they don't do that. They're the only team in the world that actually scrum properly [apparently].

Fixed that.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:He could have been saying it to a Tigers player because Tonguia has been complaining all game about the scrum.

Maybe the tigers are doing something illegal at scrum time?

A front row forward, cheating at scrum time and not being penalised?

The board would never believe it, I'm fairly sure there is literally no precedent at all

Interesting that Barnes instantly thought he was talking to him. Guilty conscience?

Frankston wrote:Hartley gets carded for swearing at the ref but Richard Cockerill and Geordan Murphy can stand screaming at the 4th and 5th officials for the whole first half and dont stop even when told to? Double standards

Stand screaming at the officials for the whole first half?

Does that include when Tigers scored a try and were awarded their penalties?

Or maybe that was a teeny weeny bit exaggerated?

I don't think for one second Leicester are cheating at scrum time. Hartely just thought they were

I do feel for Dr grey and other saints fans on here.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't think for one second Leicester are cheating at scrum time. Hartely just thought they were

Everyone is always cheating at scrum time. Especially when Barnes is refereeing

It looks like Leicester are playing with 14 men

HammerofThunor wrote:Interesting that Barnes instantly thought he was talking to him. Guilty conscience?

Or peed off at getting endless verbals/queries from Hartley up to that point?

Saints give the best response possible for the start of the second half - try but no conversion.

16-10 to the Saints.

"Justice for Dylan" comeback?

Glad to see Myler kicking so well given his call up for England...

Hartley had been warned for his language and questioning of the ref previously in the half...

One thing that might happen is that if Barnes begins to think Hartley actually was talking to a Leicester player he could subconsciencely try to balance it.

Still good chance for Haywood

Well done Kitchener with a try

Pot Hale wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Interesting that Barnes instantly thought he was talking to him. Guilty conscience?

Or peed off at getting endless verbals/queries from Hartley up to that point?

Yep, dug his own grave

When the ref has warned you, you can't risk anything going wrong

Just like if you are warned for a dangerous tackle, you make sure that your tackles don't LOOK dangerous from then on so you can't get carded.

And an equally cracking response from Tigers. Try time from a powering run by Kitchener.

21-10 to the Tigers.

Hartley clarly an idiot, but if he was swearing at the ref would he really have used those words and used them so close to and facing Barnes? Doesn't quite stack up right to me.

How did Tigers fail to score that try?

Penalty instead for Ford. and over it goes.

24-10. Curtains for Saints methinks.

mbernz wrote:Hartley clarly an idiot, but if he was swearing at the ref would he really have used those words and used them so close to and facing Barnes? Doesn't quite stack up right to me.

Because he was angry and clearly not thinking - he has history.

Possible try for Saints

Fantastic finish by Dickson

This is a fantastic final, Northampton really fighting with 14 men

Given

Amazing piece of play by Saints - powering run by Lawes witha great offload and hopefully a try for Dickson. TMO time.

And it's legit.

24-15 with a kick to come. No bother this time for Myler.

24-17. Game on again.

Great run Foden & Burrell & well taken try for Saints

Is Ben Foden in the England squad for the summer?

If Myler has gotten his kicks this would be a very close game

Dickson and Foden playing well, good news for England to have genuine depth at 9 and 15 at least with all the top 4 clubs having differently talented options there

wales606 wrote:

mbernz wrote:Hartley clarly an idiot, but if he was swearing at the ref would he really have used those words and used them so close to and facing Barnes? Doesn't quite stack up right to me.

Because he was angry and clearly not thinking - he has history.

I disagree. It's a fair question - would you really call a ref a cheat if a decision went against you? Not logical to me.

That doesn't add up to me wales606, I can't see him using the words he did if that was directed at the ref, talking to the Tigers players seems a lot more likely and that is the difference between red, yellow or no card at all.

Saints making a good fight of this, but those few minutes of idiocy just before HT have surely ruined it for them.

wales606 wrote:Is Ben Foden in the England squad for the summer?

Yes

Have to say I'm rooting for the Saints to get another one. Would set up a brilliant finale.

mbernz wrote:That doesn't add up to me wales606, I can't see him using the words he did if that was directed at the ref, talking to the Tigers players seems a lot more likely and that is the difference between red, yellow or no card at all.

Saints making a good fight of this, but those few minutes of idiocy just before HT have surely ruined it for them.

He was clearly angry at the ref for not blowing for halftime, then for giving Leicester a penalty

He had already been told off by the ref for the way he was talking to him (no doubt swearing before but not directly insulting the ref)

He is not really the calmest, most disciplined player on the pitch

It is possible he was talking to the Leicester players, but given the fact that it was a straight red I think that Barnes knew that it was being said to him.

We will see what happens with the citing, but I would be surprised if he isn't given a fairly long ban.

Listening to scrums on the radio is not fun

Saints really playing with fight and ambition. Tigers looked the best side in the first half but Saints are starting to edge this. Questionable whether they can keep it up for the remainder of the game with only 14 men though.

Pot Hale wrote:Have to say I'm rooting for the Saints to get another one. Would set up a brilliant finale.

As a neutral I am glad this game is still a contest, would be great to see Northampton make it a close finish.

Lineout sounds like it's not going well for Tigers

Tuilagi try ends the contest?

There was a block by a tigers player.

Still, this is a very good game.

Spot on Hound.

Hound of Harrow wrote:There was a block by a tigers player.

Still, this is a very good game.

it would only be the 3rd/4th of the game

Congrats to Leicester, and generally an enjoyable game, but I think Barnes deprived us of greater competition by taking an insult personally that wasn't directed at him. Northampton also shot themselves in the foot with that 22.

Is Harley out of the Lions, I suspect he will be replaced by Best (with lucK)?