Welsh Regions Signings/Departures/Rumours 2013 (Scarlets link with Blues winger Albert Nikoro)

First topic message reminder :

n Harris arrives at Ospreys

In

Tito Tebaldi (Zebra) – Confirmed
Rhodri Williams (Scarlets) - Rumour
Tyler Ardron (Ontario Blues) - Confirmed
Jamie Murphy (Bridgend) - Confirmed
Jeff Hassler (Prairie Wolf Pack) - Confirmed
Mathew Dwyer (Bridgend) - Confirmed
Sam Williams (Aberavon)- Confirmed
Chris Gibbes ( Waikato/ Assistant Coach) - Confirmed
Zac Guilford (Crusaders) -Rumour
Aisea Natoga (Nadroga) - Confirmed


Out

Kahn Fotuali'i (Northampton Saints) - Confirmed
Jonathan Thomas (/Worcester Warriors) - Confirmed
Jonathan Humphries (Scotland Forwards Coach) - Confirmed
Campbell Johnstone ( Russian Club) - Confirmed
George Stowers (Tasman) - Confirmed
Cai Griffiths (London Welsh)- Confirmed
Ian Gough (Dragons) - Rumour

Scarlets

In

Steven Shingler ( London Irish) –Confirmed
Ed Jackson (London Welsh ) – Rumour
Andrew Coombes (Dragons) - Rumour
Gareth Delve ( Melbourne Rebels) - Rumour
Serge Lilo (Wellington Lions) - Rumour
John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) - Confirmed
Nick Cummins (Western Force) - Rumour
Farid Sid (Perpignan)- Rumour
Opeti Fonua (Agen) - Rumour
Brett Deacon (Leicester Tigers) - Rumour
Regan King (Backs/Skills Coach) - Rumour
Genesis Mamea (Wellington) - Rumour
Darran Harris (Pontypridd) - Confirmed
Jamie Cub Davies (Carmarthen Athletic) - Confirmed
Josh Lewis (Ebbw Vale) - Confirmed
William Helu (Rugby Roma Olimpic) - Rumour
Lachlan McCaffery (Western Force)- Rumour
Rodnet So'oialo (Honda Heat) - Rumour
Frazier Climo (Taranaki) - Rumour
Albert Nikoro (Blues) -Rumour


Out

Tomas vallejos cinalli (Pampas XV) – Confirmed
Gareth Maule (London Irish/Munster) – Rumour
Adam Warren (Cardiff)- Rumour
Scott Williams (Cardiff) – Rumour
Rhodri Williams (Ospreys) – Rumour
Tavis Knoyle ( Gloucester) – Confirmed
Gareth Davies (Blues) –Rumour
Owen Williams (Leicester Tigers) – Confirmed
Jonathan Edwards (Cardiff RFC) – Confirmed
Andy Fenby (London Irish) - confirmed
Morgan Stoddart (Retired) - Confirmed
Dan Newton (London Scottish) - Confirmed
Kieron Murphy (Brive) - Confirmed
George North ( Northampton Saints)- Confirmed
Rheon James (Cornish Pirates)- Confirmed
Richie Pugh (Released) -Confirmed
Rhys Jones (Released) - RumourConfirmed
Dale Ford (Released/Bristol) - Confirmed
Samson Lee (Gloucester) - Rumour
Peter Edwards (London Welsh) -Confirmed
Craig Hawkins (Released) - Confirmed
Craig Price (Leicester Tigers) -Rumour
Lee Williams (Carmarthen Quins)- Confirmed


Dragons

In

Ross Wardle (Bedwas) - Confirmed
Richie Rees (Edinburgh) - Confirmed
Luciano Orquera (Zebre) -Rumour
Martin Muller (Cheetahs) - Confirmed
Juan Gomez (Pampas XV) - Rumour
Netani Talei (Edingburgh) - Confirmed
Francisco Chaparro (Stade Francias) - Confirmed
Kris Burton (Treviso) - Confirmed
Rhys Thomas (Wasps)- Confirmed
Malakai Fekitoa (Auckland) - Rumour
Lyn Jones (London Welsh) -Confirmed
Kingsley Jones (Russia National Team) - Rumour
Mathew Screech (Cardiff Blues) - Confirmed
Franck Montanella (London Welsh) - Rumour
Hudson Tonga’uiha (London Welsh) - Rumour
Jason Tovey (Cardiff Blues)- Confirmed
Ian Gough (Ospreys) - Rumour

Out

Andrew Coombes (Scarlets) – Rumour
Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro)- Confirmed
Steve Jones (Retired)- Confirmed
Tom Brown (Released/Jersey) - Confirmed
Tondi Chavhanga (Released) - Confirmed
Iestyn Thomas (Retired) - Confirmed
Josh Tyler (Released) - Confirmed
Hywel Stoddart (Released) - Confirmed
Tim Ryan (Coventry) - Confirmed

Blues

In

Filo Paulo (North Harbour) - confirmed
Matthew Rees (Scarlets) Confirmed
Liam Davies (confirmed - until end of season)
Gethin Jenkins (Toulon) - Confirmed
Rhys Gill (Saracens) - rumoured
Adam Warren (Scarlets) - rumoured
Scott Williams –(Scarlets) – rumoured
Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets) – rumour
Gareth Davies ( Scarlets) - rumour
Rodney So'oialo (Honda Heat) - Rumour

Out

Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro) - confirmed
Tom James (Exeter Chiefs) -confirmed
Richard Mustoe (retirement) -confirmed
Fau Filise - (retirement) rumour
Ceri Sweeney (Exeter Chiefs) - Confirmed
Leigh Halfpenny (Clermont) - Rumour
Michael Paterson (Sale Sharks) - Confirmed
Campese Ma'afu (Nottingham) -Confirmed
Corry Hill (Cornish Pirates) - Confirmed
Andy Kyriacou (Retired)- Confirmed
Xavier Rush (Leaves) - Confirmed
Mathew Screech (Bedwas/Dragons) - Confirmed
Nathan Trevett  (London Welsh) - Confirmed
Jason Tovey (Dragons) - Confirmed

The Saint wrote:Do you act this much of a muppet on purpose? Only a fool would believe there is no need or an All Black winger in their team... Once again you've shown your depth of rugby knowledge because a few of the players on your list are scrum halves, and one is an 18 year old novelty choice for the recent Wales tour. Fussell is a poor full back and the Ospreys had an injury crisis in the back 3 all of last season, it makes perfect sense to strengthen that area. 
Why the need to pretend to be Welsh and scour the internet for random Welsh rugby players to post on here? I don't believe it has ever fooled anyone.

As for your first question, no, I don't 'act this much of a muppet on purpose', and I don't consider myself to be a 'muppet'. I sincerely believe there is no need for the Ospreys to sign Zac Guilford, as they have plenty of competition on the wings for the 2013/2014 season already. Tom Habberfield is a scrum half but he has experience playing professional rugby on the wing; 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21416093,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21507369,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21589506, http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22343549,
so I believe he is a competitor for a wing berth at the Ospreys next season, as well as the scrum half berth. He wouldn't be the first player who is versatile in both of these positions, Shane Williams, for example, can play wing and scrum half. Dafydd Howells I believe is more than a one-off 'novelty choice' for the Welsh National Side; I believe he will play a key role for the Ospreys next season, and will gain many more Welsh caps throughout his rugby career. Your view on Fussell is purely subjective and may not reflect the views of the Ospreys coaches, Ospreys players, Ospreys fans and so on, I happen to disagree with you, I believe Fussell will push hard for the full back berth as well as the wing berths at the Ospreys next season, I think he is a good player. Maybe you haven't noticed that the Ospreys have already strengthened their back 3 for next season; http://www.bridgendravens.co.uk/News/Article/29640, http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Ospreys-add-Canadian-Jeff-Hassler-attacking/story-19215979-detail/story.html#axzz2XGDIbAjB. Also, I consider Ashley Evans and Dafydd Howells as new signings as they didn't feature much for the Ospreys last season. You say that 'the Ospreys had an injury crisis in the back 3 all of last season' but I think there is no logical reason to assume the same will happen again next season. As for your last question, I believe they're not 'random Welsh rugby players', they are Welsh rugby players with potential, who deserve an opportunity at a higher level.

The Saint wrote:

international197 wrote:I think there is no need for the Ospreys to sign Zac Guilford. I think they are well covered on the wings for the 2013/2014 season with the likes of Richard Fussell, Hanno Dirksen, Tom Grabham, Ben John, Ross Jones, Jeff Hassler, Tom Habberfield, Tom Isaacs, Dafydd Howells and Eli Walker all competing for berths there. I also believe winger Ashley Evans** of Bridgend RFC deserves to be offered a contract by the Ospreys after his performances** in the 2013 JWC, so even more competition on the wings if he signs. I think he works well with Sam Davies, an Osprey fly-half. I think the Ospreys should save some money for when they actually need to sign a winger (if that day will ever come).

*http://www.bridgendravens.co.uk/Teams/Player?PersonId=150809
*http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/squads_wales_u20.php?player=108302&includeref=dynamic
*http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/10492714.Wales_Under_20s_18_South_Africa_Under_20s_17/
*http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-u20-15-23-england-u20-4702083

Do you act this much of a muppet on purpose? Only a fool would believe there is no need or an All Black winger in their team... Once again you've shown your depth of rugby knowledge because a few of the players on your list are scrum halves, and one is an 18 year old novelty choice for the recent Wales tour. Fussell is a poor full back and the Ospreys had an injury crisis in the back 3 all of last season, it makes perfect sense to strengthen that area.
Why the need to pretend to be Welsh and scour the internet for random Welsh rugby players to post on here? I don't believe it has ever fooled anyone.

In fairness, he also thinks the Blues don't need any centres - because Hewitt and Evans are good enough 

The Ospreys were desperate for wingers this season, and things got pretty bad when Walker and Dirksen out. With Dirksen due to miss the start of the season the O's could certainly use strengthening on the wing.

Guilford is very talented, but it will be up to the O's management to keep him in control - but he could be an excellent signing, and one of the best regional signings for a fair while (Fotuali two years ago was the last good one, and that didn't show until this year, Laulaula before that)

Can I just interrupt to thank Pioden for this thread. It's only just occurred to me that it's taken some dedication to keep it updated for the rest of us, and it's been completely voluntary. 

Diolch, Pioden. 

Wales606 wrote:In fairness, he also thinks the Blues don't need any centres - because Hewitt and Evans are good enough 

The Ospreys were desperate for wingers this season, and things got pretty bad when Walker and Dirksen out. With Dirksen due to miss the start of the season the O's could certainly use strengthening on the wing.

I think Hewitt and Evans are good enough. However, I have suggested Hook to the Blues, who can play at 12 and 13.

Don't you realize that they've already strengthened on the wings? They have signed Jeff Hassler, a winger. They have also signed Jamie Murphy, a contestant for the full back berth, which should give Richard Fussell a greater opportunity to contest for a wing berth at the Ospreys next season. Also, Eli Walker is fit for the start of the season and Dafydd Howells and Ashley Evans are new wing options who, sadly, weren't considered for the Ospreys last season.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Can I just interrupt to thank Pioden for this thread. It's only just occurred to me that it's taken some dedication to keep it updated for the rest of us, and it's been completely voluntary. 

Diolch, Pioden. 

He hasn't even updated that Tovey has left the Blues...lazy I say! 

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Can I just interrupt to thank Pioden for this thread. It's only just occurred to me that it's taken some dedication to keep it updated for the rest of us, and it's been completely voluntary. 

Diolch, Pioden. 

Diolch yn fawr, Pioden. 

But 197, Hasler is probably going to be an LV cup player at first! And diolch Pidoen, this thread is great.

wales606 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Can I just interrupt to thank Pioden for this thread. It's only just occurred to me that it's taken some dedication to keep it updated for the rest of us, and it's been completely voluntary. 

Diolch, Pioden. 

He hasn't even updated that Tovey has left the Blues...lazy I say! 

Ha I'll do it now.

Looking at the scarletfever site it looks like promising Ebbw Vale 10 Josh Lewis has signed for us. Also there were rumours end of last season Gareth Jenkins had found the "new" George North up in North England somewhere. It's been spotted on twitter Rob Stevenson was the link player, and he's been down on trials with us. Apparently he is originally from LLanelli & been with the Wales U18 Sevens. Here's the info on him :

Rob Stevenson awarded “School House Rugby Scarf”

Congratulations to Robbie Stevenson L6th who has been awarded the coveted School House scarf.

This is a tradition that dates back many years and has seen some prestigious players including three Simpson-Daniels awarded the scarf. It is awarded to the player in the sixth form who has had the most outstanding season and contributed the most to the football club.

Robbie has been awarded his Brown Blazer, been involved in the Roslyn Park Sevens winning team, he has been selected to train withWales U18 Sevens and has recently had a call from the director of rugby at Scarlets; he scored a try at Twickenham against Wellington to finish the season off.

Well done Robbie

Looks like this Gypo is doing exactly what us Scarlets fans were hoping and is mining for diamonds. Should be interesting to see what this lad is like, really seems to be an out of nowhere selcetion.

Reading that lads twitter, looks like his trial session was pretty hard going!

Huw Bennet forced to retire after an achiles injury suffered against scotland in 2012

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Looks like this Gypo is doing exactly what us Scarlets fans were hoping and is mining for diamonds.  Should be interesting to see what this lad is like, really seems to be an out of nowhere selcetion.

apparently gyppo has had an eye on this player for a while (middle of last season). he has a history of picking players out of nowhere (e.g Ben Morgan from Merthyr and Andy Fenby from Blaydon) might not of been the best national coach, but it's a decent scout.

First of all, I'm unhappy that you call the Scarlets, the 'Llanelli Scarlets', as they represent a much, much bigger area than Llanelli alone. Llanelli RFC are Llanelli.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7610188.stm

I'm slightly surprised that the Scarlets have signed another fly half in Josh Lewis. Don't they already have Rhys Preistland, Gareth Owen, Steven Shingler, Aled Thomas and Jordan Williams competing for the Scarlets fly half berth for games in the 2013/2014 season? Why sign another player in an already well covered position? The biggest benefit I see of Josh Lewis signing for the Scarlets is that it will give the likes of Rhys Preistland, Gareth Owen, Steven Shingler and Aled Thomas more opportunity to compete for the Scarlets fullback berth, and therefore free up the likes of Dion Jones, Liam Williams and Jordan Williams to compete for places on the wings for the Scarlets in the 2013/2014 season, alongside the likes of Kristian Phillips, Kyle Evans, Gareth Maule, Adam Warren, Aaron Warren, Lee Williams, Iolo Evans, Jason Harries, Rob Stevenson and others.

When oh when will the regions stop experimenting with players positions. You wouldn't stick a midfielder in as a striker and expect them to bank in 30 goals a season would you? That's precisely what your doing when people get stuck on the wing or whatever other position requires filling any given week. Bottom line all positions are specialist.

To give some credence to the above consider this:-

1. Fussell was actually a very good try scoring winger. His ratios for tries where very solid. They move him to full back and now finding the try line is far lower. By contrast they move half a dozen scrum halves to wing and sure enough the ratio of those scrum halves tries is virtually zero. Logic would have dictated leaving a try scoring winger in his natural position and moving a scrum half to full back.

2. Issac - Moved to Centre. Totally different position from Scrum Half based purely on his stature. Again a failed attempt by the Ospreys.

And that's just the Ospreys. The Scarlets, Blues & Dragons have all been guilty of this behaviour. I am struggling though to think of just one player who has ever successfully made the switch in the modern game. Feel free to correct me though guys.

I actually think wingers ability to score tries it what makes them stand out from everyone else. Why would you play people on the wings if they have a crap try scoring record. And don't tell me there isn't enough wingers out there. Plenty of Premiership wings are running in tries for fun at the mo who would kill for a regional game or two.

international197 wrote:First of all, I'm unhappy that you call the Scarlets, the 'Llanelli Scarlets', as they represent a much, much bigger area than Llanelli alone. Llanelli RFC are Llanelli.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7610188.stm

I'm slightly surprised that the Scarlets have signed another fly half in Josh Lewis. Don't they already have Rhys Preistland, Gareth Owen, Steven Shingler, Aled Thomas and Jordan Williams competing for the Scarlets fly half berth for games in the 2013/2014 season? Why sign another player in an already well covered position? The biggest benefit I see of Josh Lewis signing for the Scarlets is that it will give the likes of Rhys Preistland, Gareth Owen, Steven Shingler and Aled Thomas more opportunity to compete for the Scarlets fullback berth, and therefore free up the likes of Dion Jones, Liam Williams and Jordan Williams to compete for places on the wings for the Scarlets in the 2013/2014 season, alongside the likes of Kristian Phillips, Kyle Evans, Gareth Maule, Adam Warren, Aaron Warren, Lee Williams, Iolo Evans, Jason Harries, Rob Stevenson and others.

to be fair to us we've lost owen williams and dan newton in the fly half berth. also priestland and possibly shingler might be away with team wales only leaving aled thomas ( who crumbled unfortunately last year after a run of games) gareth owen isn't being considered at 10 anymore i believe, so can see why we've signed up josh lewis.....he seems to have done well for Ebbw Vale last season:

Most points scored: Josh Lewis (265 in league and cup matches)
Most Promising Player, chosen by supporters: Josh Lewis
Players' Player Award: Josh Lewis

can see the llabelli rfc/scarlets thinking in signing him.

First of all was gutted to hear about Huw Bennett, unsung hero in the world cup. Not having much luck with him and Lloyd Burns retiring.

Also if this kid is what you say 'the new George north' then why hasn't a northern English club been looking at him. If he is young then fair do's but he can't be that good if he is in his 20's and hasn't been scouted up there yet.
I'm all up for giving him a chance because we have nothing to lose at the moment with wingers, but i'm not getting my hopes up.
We will be fine we have Kristian Phillips anyway huh

Welshmushroom wrote:When oh when will the regions stop experimenting with players positions.  You wouldn't stick a midfielder in as a striker and expect them to bank in 30 goals a season would you?  That's precisely what your doing when people get stuck on the wing or whatever other position requires filling any given week.  Bottom line all positions are specialist.  

To give some credence to the above consider this:-

1.  Fussell was actually a very good try scoring winger.  His ratios for tries where very solid.  They move him to full back and now finding the try line is far lower.  By contrast they move half a dozen scrum halves to wing and sure enough the ratio of those scrum halves tries is virtually zero.  Logic would have dictated leaving a try scoring winger in his natural position and moving a scrum half to full back.

2. Issac - Moved to Centre.  Totally different position from Scrum Half based purely on his stature.  Again a failed attempt by the Ospreys.  

And that's just the Ospreys.  The Scarlets, Blues & Dragons have all been guilty of this behaviour.  I am struggling though to think of just one player who has ever successfully made the switch in the modern game.  Feel free to correct me though guys.

I actually think wingers ability to score tries it what makes them stand out from everyone else.  Why would you play people on the wings if they have a crap try scoring record.  And don't tell me there isn't enough wingers out there.  Plenty of Premiership wings are running in tries for fun at the mo who would kill for a regional game or two.

I will help you out:
Tom Youngs
Francois Hougard
Andrew Coombs
James Hook

Jhamer25 wrote:First of all was gutted to hear about Huw Bennett, unsung hero in the world cup. Not having much luck with him and Lloyd Burns retiring.

Also if this kid is what you say 'the new George north' then why hasn't a northern English club been looking at him. If he is young then fair do's but he can't be that good if he is in his 20's and hasn't been scouted up there yet.
I'm all up for giving him a chance because we have nothing to lose at the moment with wingers, but i'm not getting my hopes up.
We will be fine we have Kristian Phillips anyway huh

don't depress me! can't go into the new season with phillips and an unproven kyle evans/ aaron warren on the other wing.......we are looking at a tongan at a moment. so who knows we might use our final NWQ allocation on the wing instead ( always assumed it would be used at 8)

Mushroom, to be fair the position is only a number on a players back. It doesn't even really effect where they line up for set peices anymore (bar forwards) quite often wings appear in the centre off lineouts etc. To us your football analogy its like changing the formation from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1.

pioden gorllewin wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:First of all was gutted to hear about Huw Bennett, unsung hero in the world cup. Not having much luck with him and Lloyd Burns retiring.

Also if this kid is what you say 'the new George north' then why hasn't a northern English club been looking at him. If he is young then fair do's but he can't be that good if he is in his 20's and hasn't been scouted up there yet.
I'm all up for giving him a chance because we have nothing to lose at the moment with wingers, but i'm not getting my hopes up.
We will be fine we have Kristian Phillips anyway huh

don't depress me! can't go into the new season with phillips and an unproven kyle evans/ aaron warren on the other wing.......we are looking at a tongan at a moment. so who knows we might use our final NWQ allocation on the wing instead ( always assumed it would be used at 8)

HAHA sorry.
Im just in panic mode because the Dragons, Ospreys and most of the other clubs in Europe have made signings and nearly done shopping and we haven't and we NEED to sooooooooooo

Hope he is a big strong like north. Whatever happened to iongi as well, I thought he was really good.

Iongi left last season, i believe he didn't bother turning up to pre season training, bit of a grey cloud over it, not sure there was ever an official reason.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Mushroom, to be fair the position is only a number on a players back.  It doesn't even really effect where they line up for set peices anymore (bar forwards) quite often wings appear in the centre off lineouts etc. To us your football analogy its like changing the formation from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1.

Of course there are specialist positions. My point still stands. Wingers are there to score tries.

Next you will be telling me Shane Williams could have played at Inside Centre or Fly Half.

Jhamer25 wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:When oh when will the regions stop experimenting with players positions.  You wouldn't stick a midfielder in as a striker and expect them to bank in 30 goals a season would you?  That's precisely what your doing when people get stuck on the wing or whatever other position requires filling any given week.  Bottom line all positions are specialist.  

To give some credence to the above consider this:-

1.  Fussell was actually a very good try scoring winger.  His ratios for tries where very solid.  They move him to full back and now finding the try line is far lower.  By contrast they move half a dozen scrum halves to wing and sure enough the ratio of those scrum halves tries is virtually zero.  Logic would have dictated leaving a try scoring winger in his natural position and moving a scrum half to full back.

2. Issac - Moved to Centre.  Totally different position from Scrum Half based purely on his stature.  Again a failed attempt by the Ospreys.  

And that's just the Ospreys.  The Scarlets, Blues & Dragons have all been guilty of this behaviour.  I am struggling though to think of just one player who has ever successfully made the switch in the modern game.  Feel free to correct me though guys.

I actually think wingers ability to score tries it what makes them stand out from everyone else.  Why would you play people on the wings if they have a crap try scoring record.  And don't tell me there isn't enough wingers out there.  Plenty of Premiership wings are running in tries for fun at the mo who would kill for a regional game or two.

I will help you out:
Tom Youngs
Francois Hougard
Andrew Coombs
James Hook

Ill give you Hougard & Coombs.

You are reaching with Youngs and Hook. Youngs never even played his original position at pro level and was converted to Hooker.

Hook never really learned to play Fly Half on the account of being moved around the park non stop at the Ospreys. Ill give you that he learned to play inside centre but I would argue the boy never proved himself at Fly Half. Even at Perpignan there are huge question marks over him with both a South African and French International Fly Half being brought in and rumours that Perpignan are looking to offload his 400K a year as an incredible waste of money.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:It doesn't even really effect where they line up for set peices anymore (bar forwards) quite often wings appear in the centre off lineouts etc.

Also not to make to finer point on the above but just because someone appears at centre as part of a set called move doesn't make them a centre.  For starters most wingers would struggle to keep opposition from winning the gain line battle against other centres.  Tackling on a wing is completely different than Tackling in the middle of the park.

Mushroom, the basic skills for a rugby union back are the ability to run though gaps, to pass the ball, to kick the ball, and to tackle opposition players. These are basic requirements of all the backs, then there are subtle differences in the positions, however just because a player has spent time in one postition does not mean they are unable to fill in a role in another position. At the Scarlets we tend to bring young fly halves through by playing them at fullback. The kicking and gap spotting game are very similar between the two roles, however a fullback gets more time to make the decissions.

The French view their positions different to us, they don't really have much of a diffence between fly half and scrum half, they just have half backs (generally). The New Zealanders have generally a backline full of utility backs, bar scrum half, wingers who can play in the centre, fly halves who have been centres, fullbacks who play on the wing etc etc.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Mushroom, the basic skills for a rugby union back are the ability to run though gaps, to pass the ball, to kick the ball, and to tackle opposition players.  These are basic requirements of all the backs, then there are subtle differences in the positions, however just because a player has spent time in one postition does not mean they are unable to fill in a role in another position.  At the Scarlets we tend to bring young fly halves through by playing them at fullback.  The kicking and gap spotting game are very similar between the two roles, however a fullback gets more time to make the decissions.

The things you listed here are fundamentals of the sport. All players will be able to do this. Also your point above illustrates nothing regarding the vast differences between Fly Half and Full Back. Defensive Positions, Fielding Kicks, Attacking from Deep, Catching up and unders. The Blues did the same with Roberts and it took a New Zealander to move him back to his semi professional position at Centre. Also fundamentally your full back needs to be fast. A trait that cannot be trained and is an individual attribute. This all points to a standard lack of understanding from our regional coaching. Jiffy even has been a stern advocate of players playing in specialist positions and keeping them there. You just wouldn't see this in New Zealand.

ScarletSpiderman wrote: The French view their positions different to us, they don't really have much of a diffence between fly half and scrum half, they just have half backs (generally).  The New Zealanders have generally a backline full of utility backs, bar scrum half, wingers who can play in the centre, fly halves who have been centres, fullbacks who play on the wing etc etc.

Yeah I forgot Conrad Smith and Ma Nonu both had blistering careers at Fly Half and Full Back. Correct me if I am wrong here but basically New Zealand actually do only utilize specialists in their positions. The only exceptions have been McCallister, Carter & McDonald all who have featured at Inside Centre. I cant even think of the last time New Zealand have ever fielded a player on the wing who does not occupy the position at Super 15 level.

France are hardly a template for half backs. The reason they do this is because they are struggling to find natural Fly Halfs so out of necessity they are having to convert Scrum Halves into that position. Given the choice they wouldn't do it.


Bottom line is we clearly have a difference in opinion on this but the good look to any team who will be playing the season without specialist wingers and full backs because you wont be scoring many tries and certainly not winning any silverware given top 4 sides in the rabbo tend to be the highest try scoring teams.

Welshmushroom wrote:
The things you listed here are fundamentals of the sport.  All players will be able to do this.   Also your point above illustrates nothing regarding the vast differences between Fly Half and Full Back.  Defensive Positions, Fielding Kicks, Attacking from Deep, Catching up and unders.  The Blues did the same with Roberts and it took a New Zealander to move him back to his semi professional position at Centre.

Agreed, but IIRC Roberts was predominantly a FB, for Cardiff RFC anyway and it was the WRU who requested he move to inside centre for the Blues after initially playing on the wing. Also Ben Blair was already part of the furniture when JR became a "regular".

Blues need a 10 who could that be? (Other than hook)

Howlett, Jane, Muiliana (sp) have all been wings and fullbacks for NZ, as has Umaga and SBW. Alfie and Daf James are good examples froma Welsh perspective. However I would want any team to play with players in a position that suits their abilities, and suits the team they are playing for/against. However I would not necessarily rule out someone like Jordan Williams from playing fullback or wing, because he is a flyhalf by trade.

dragon4life wrote:Blues need a 10 who could that be? (Other than hook)

Sam Norton Knight looked good against the Lions.

It should be interesting to see who is actually available, as most teams seem to be done shopping now.

Robin Davey has tweeted:

"The Dragons may get a much needed new centre after all-by the new regime moving on players surplus to requirements"

So looks like there will be more player movement at the Dragons this summer.

How good would it be if that centre was James Hook.

That would be phenomenal SS! And a Lyn Jones link up again. Although, do they get on?! Wasn't it Jones that messed around with Hook's position?

Who would you class as surplus to requirements ??

Hook appears to be surplus to requirements at Perpignan as they've brought in two new 10s.

Griff wrote:That would be phenomenal SS! And a Lyn Jones link up again. Although, do they get on?! Wasn't it Jones that messed around with Hook's position?

No. The backline under Lyn Jones; Byrne, (Nikki) Walker, Parker, Henson/Bishop, Wiliams, Hook/Connor, Phillips/Marshall. How didn't they win a Heineken cup?!

Welshmushroom wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote: The French view their positions different to us, they don't really have much of a diffence between fly half and scrum half, they just have half backs (generally).  The New Zealanders have generally a backline full of utility backs, bar scrum half, wingers who can play in the centre, fly halves who have been centres, fullbacks who play on the wing etc etc.

Yeah I forgot Conrad Smith and Ma Nonu both had blistering careers at Fly Half and Full Back.  Correct me if I am wrong here but basically New Zealand actually do only utilize specialists in their positions.  The only exceptions have been McCallister, Carter & McDonald all who have featured at Inside Centre.  I cant even think of the last time New Zealand have ever fielded a player on the wing who does not occupy the position at Super 15 level.

In the backs, NZ have their first outside half (usually the top guy for the job in all of NZ(and quite possibly the world), known as first five-eight. The inside centre is the second five-eight, a similar ball player who usually has all the skills of the 10 but probably second best. McCalister, McDonald, Carter, Mauger have all featured in this role at 12. While I think Nonu has some of these skills I don't consider him a second five-eight, but more of a player there to get over the gainline. With Smith outside him, a specialist 13 that's all you need.
Nonu, Umaga, SBW,Kahui, Ben Smith have all played on the wing even though they aren't considered wingers. Jane, Dagg, play a bit of both 14 and 15 because of their skill set. The All Blacks usually pair this with a big finisher like Gear, Savea, Rockoko, Sivivatu.
Weepu at 9 would be more of your typical French No.9. Another player who can kick, control the game like a fly-half (he's actually played at 10). I guess what I'm trying to say is that the All Blacks backline is perfection.

Sonny parker?

Parker would make sense but it would be disappointing.

dragon4life wrote:Sonny parker?

hopefully not

Who is on the market? Is lyn going to raid LW?

Franck Montella and Tongahuia i think if we signed these our squad would be complete

dragon4life wrote:Blues need a 10 who could that be? (Other than hook)

Possibly a southern hemisphere type who Lord D and the rest of us haven't heard of. Could be Hook though. We made an approach before he went to France so who knows.

But would he be guaranteed to be first-choice outside half at the Blues? I imagine that's one of his main criteria.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:But would he be guaranteed to be first-choice outside half at the Blues? I imagine that's one of his main criteria.

Not sure he would. Patchell has been a proven performer with the Blues so far, where as Hook would have to come in an prove he can oust Patch in order to be first-choice. And to be fair the BLues are weaker in the centre than fly half (quality wise), so odds are Hook would be a centre, but covering fly half when needed, as opposed to the other way around.

I'm not sure he'd move anywhere where he'd play in midfield half the time. He moved to Perpignan precisely because they were giving him the outside half role. That's where he sees himself.

Lucky, I miss read your post. Thought you said he would be first-choice at the Blues, as opposed to whether he would or not.

I think Hook will have offers from some other places too, if he is serious about wanting to leave USAP, so nailing the no.10 jersey could well be a deal breaker

I imagine there are a few French clubs who would want him and if he's happy with the lifestyle over there, why not stay?