Is Gatland's biggest Mistake appointing Farrell

by dragonbreath Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:15 am

Before the tour started I was completely confident that the Lions would win the series. From what I have seen of the defensive organisation of the various Lions combinations utilised thus far, I am now far from confident. They are conceding soft tries to sides so inferior to the side they will face next weekend that avoiding defeat will now be a massive achievement. They are so vulnerable out wide that the Australians may just run riot

IMO Farrell is the weak link in the Lions set up and his appointment may well be the deciding factor in this series.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:18 am

I already raised that possibility in the "Gatland's biggest error thread".

by Knackeredknees Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:24 am

Ok which defence coach would you have picked?
Wales leaked trys v Japan
Scotland leaked trys v Soama and SA
Ireland leaked trys v USA and Canada

Everyone leaks trys....Even the All Blacks last week

by dragonbreath Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:25 am

Rugby Fan wrote:I already raised that possibility in the "Gatland's biggest error thread".

Looks like your fears are being realised

by nathan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:56 am

dragonbreath wrote:Before the tour started I was completely confident that the Lions would win the series. From what I have seen of the defensive organisation of the various Lions combinations utilised thus far, I am now far from confident. They are conceding soft tries to sides so inferior to the side they will face next weekend that avoiding defeat will now be a massive achievement. They are so vulnerable out wide that the Australians may just run riot

IMO Farrell is the weak link in the Lions set up and his appointment may well be the deciding factor in this series.

we haven't even put out the strongest lions team or shown our hand yet and your complaining about the defence in mid week games?

Are you serious or is this just an attack on Farrell? (With some of the folk on here i wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter!!)

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:02 pm

dragonbreath wrote:Looks like your fears are being realised

It's not a fear of mine. Its just a realization that a lost series entails the Wallabies scoring more points than us in at least two matches. If that comes about, then it's inevitable there'll be some focus on our defence.

Defence, of course, wasn't especially a strong point in the 2009 series either. We didn't collapse, but you can hardly say that we kept it tight four years ago.

by nathan Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:05 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:Looks like your fears are being realised
It's not a fear of mine. Its just a realization that a lost series entails the Wallabies scoring more points than us in at least two matches. If that comes about, then it's inevitable there'll be some focus on our defence.

Defence, of course, wasn't especially a strong point in the 2009 series either. We didn't collapse, but you can hardly say that we kept it tight four years ago.

but doesnt that point to a more attacking approach of the lions? you sort of shift focus towards attack more and you lose a little on defence?

by broadlandboy Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:13 pm

Defence depends on players knowing how the other players react. This only really comes about from playing together, something some of these players have not had a lot of time at.

by belovedfrosties Sun 16 Jun 2013, 12:25 pm

Conversely we could say that if we lost its because we didn't score enough points, which would be Howleys fault. We were expected to put 100 points on that invitational team in the mid-week game last week but failed miserably. Howley is clearly the weak link and i hope it doesn't cost the Lions dear......

HOnestly, some people on here beggar belief, everyone concedes tries, especially against SH teams, especially when you are still learning combinations and patterns that might be new to you. See how we go in the tests before you start complaining, there will always be some complacency in these games, when you're 30 points up and know that you can't be caught.

by glamorganalun Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:50 pm

It is worrying that the Lions are conceding a lot of tries to weak teams most worrying the ease the opposition forwards scored on Sat. I am not sure of the back row combination last Sat but I suspect this is the test back row. Croft is a very good player but why is on the wing so much for a 6, he should be supporting the other backrow forwards especially for the test matches. I prefer Lydiate to start and Croft on the bench as an impact player.

by red_stag Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:59 pm

Are the Lions conceding "a lot" of tries though?

Barbarians - conceded 1 try
Force - conceded 2 tries
Reds - conceded 2 tries
QNL/NSW - conceded 0 tries (and 0 points)
Waratahs - conceded 2 tries

Conceding 7 tries in 5 games isn't exactly the biggest deal in the world. Especially when have scored 33 tries in the same 5 games.

Barbarians - scored 8 tries
Force - scored 9 tries
Reds - scored 1 try
QND/NSW - scored 10 tries
Waratahs - scored 5 tries

Basically they didn't play well against the Reds. Thats what it all seems to boil down to.

by maestegmafia Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:03 pm

At the time of the coaching appointments Farrell was looking the form coach.

The defence in all the lions games is a concern. New systems for many of the players might be the reason.

Gatland runs a tight ship defencively. I am sure there will be hard work done before Saturday.

by RubyGuby Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:09 pm

So! we've won every game; we've got injuries to many key players and we're already looking for scapegoats - Crazy thumbsup

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:16 pm

I don't think the Lions have a stingy defence but it's an exaggeration to say it's leaky. The idea that Tom Croft has been seagulling out on the wing when he has played is ridiculous.

When Gatland chose Andy Farrell, he said that he wanted to freshen up his approach - Farrell is the only one of the current team who wasn't there four years ago.

He was credited with giving the England players the confidence to belie their inexperience and, unless we later hear to the contrary, he seems to be doing something similar in Australia.

There's always a danger he'll be found out at higher levels of competition so early in his coaching career but, if he's contributed to a good squad atmosphere, then he's done a good part of his job.

For Gatland, win or lose, one of his most important jobs may be ensuring he has retained a good working relationship with Edwards.

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