Message to the doubters - but a different slant

I just wanted to post a message to all of the doubters and critics recently. No, this is not for those who question Gatland's tactics - a lot of us Welsh fans have been doing that for ages. And no, this is not for those who criticised selection - that is so subjective and difficult to get right that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. We'll never know if BOD being in would have had the same result - probably, but that's not what this is about.

My message is more to the doubters and Lions sceptics from home - those who want the concept to be dead, who think it's had it. The Lions concept needs some work, perhaps we need a quota system or something to get a fairer representation.  I feel this goes against all sorts of coaching philosophies, but maybe it's needed to get everyone on board.  But looking at the players faces at the end, it struck me what a great tradition this is. Listening to James Horwill speaking very honestly and openly about his disappointment showed that overseas this concept is alive and kicking - the opponents rate the challenge and want the experience.  We did it, it wasn't always pretty, some things were questionable and some things could do with tweaking, but oh what a joy when it comes off.

I just want to send a huge congratulations to the Lions squad for getting the win and showing the world that the NH can play rugby. Yes Eng, Scot and Ire beat Oz and Wales get close, but this showed that we can play some rugby, score some tries and most importantly win a series. Oz are consistently top 3, they are a very good team and they were well beaten today. Yes they had injuries, but so too for the Lions with players in that team who had been jetted in as 3rd choice replacements.

Well done everyone involved. Enjoy the lash - it will be epic!

Great comment. Agree totally.

Good comment  

definately agree, would love to see all four nations kick on individually and start taking the game to SH sides regularly, who do each side have in the AI?

Ireland- Samoa, Australia, New Zealand

Wales have SA, Aus, Argentina and someone (Tonga?)

South Africa game will be huge

Ireland should be aiming for 2/3 there

Wales should be aiming for a sweep but tbh id take 3/4 and some consistency

All 4 nations should be dissatisfied with less than 75% (or 2 out of 3, if that's the number to be played) success rates at home. I know that seems hopelessly naive and optimistic, but without such a mind set, all the progress of the past few weeks will count for nothing. No reason on earth why even New Zealand shouldn't be beaten in these islands - it's been close enough at times in the past to suggest that a little extra belief could make all the difference.

who do England and Scotland have?

England have Aus, Argentina and NZ, I'm fairly sure. Scotland, I think, have Japan, SA and Aus.

wales606 wrote:Wales have SA, Aus, Argentina and someone (Tonga?)

South Africa game will be huge

Aus again? FFS. Sick and tired of them now. You know how it will be built up by the media in Nov after the Lions tour. They'll try to make out it was mainly Wales who won it in the 3rd test, and then they'll come to Cardiff and hand us our arses on a platter and we'll look like chumps yet again!

Griff wrote:

wales606 wrote:Wales have SA, Aus, Argentina and someone (Tonga?)

South Africa game will be huge

Aus again? FFS. Sick and tired of them now. You know how it will be built up by the media in Nov after the Lions tour. They'll try to make out it was mainly Wales who won it in the 3rd test, and then they'll come to Cardiff and hand us our arses on a platter and we'll look like chumps yet again!

That's why the SA game is crucial, win that and I won't really care if we bomb the next 3 (won't be as bad as last autumn  ), getting that W against SA will be a huge boost.

England will expect 2/3 and will want to back up their all black victory with another

Really, 2 out of 3 for each of the countries, plus 3 of 4 for Wales, is not beyond the realms of possibility. At least, that's how I hope each country would genuinely view matters, as opposed to paying lip service to the idea.

The one caveat is fitness in the wake of a Lions tour, which historically has allowed France to win every 5/6 nations following a Lions year in the professional era. A cleanish bill of health and some serious damage could at least be contemplated.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Really, 2 out of 3 for each of the countries, plus 3 of 4 for Wales, is not beyond the realms of possibility. At least, that's how I hope each country would genuinely view matters, as opposed to paying lip service to the idea.

The one caveat is fitness in the wake of a Lions tour, which historically has allowed France to win every 5/6 nations following a Lions year in the professional era. A cleanish bill of health and some serious damage could at least be contemplated.

Surprisingly low injury count in the end for this tour - few niggles, but hopefully nothing that will keep anyone out for a long period (POC and Warburton medium term maybe?) I guess the problems will come next season when players haven't had much time off rugby - who knows, maybe we will get lucky.

The Lions concept is alive and well, and I get the impression that it's valued much more in the SH than we do here - the players will typically only get one shot at the Lions, and they can be neutral about selection!

I don't think a quota system should be imposed. I think what's needed is selection of a coach who's sympathetic to the Lions ideal. My main gripe with Gatland, when I thought about it rationally, was that he seems to have come in with a mindset of "I know my gameplan, now who are the players who will best fit it?" rather than what I think the Lions selection should be about, which is "What can I create with the talent available to me?". I think for a Lions squad to be appreciated by all nations there needs to be that sense of someone trying to combine talents, rather than put players into predefined slots. That, I think, is what distinguished Geech from other Lions coaches.

Which said, Gatland's approach produced the first win for 16 years, albeit with a healthy dollop of luck. So maybe he's right, and I'm wrong; though I know what I would prefer to watch.

It will be interesting to see the impact on the AIs. One prediction: the England back row will be seriously fired up and will have a big point to prove. As long as one of the No 8s remains fit, that is.