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Are you a walker?

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Are you a walker?

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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 5:19 pm

In light of a test that reached questioned what constitutes the spirit of the game, I think this is a good question.

Personally, I walk.. Almost every time. I've walked once in the nineties. Before you give me the Spirit of Cricket award... I must admit, I walk simply because when I edge a ball, I lose all my faculties. I get so sad I can't even look to the umpire, like my heart can't take seeing that finger raise. I explained it to a mate of mine by saying, "The second I edge it, no matter how thin, Im convinced there is no chance the umpire couldn't have heard it". It's like a ten second depression where I want the Earth to engulf me. If I had full bodily functions, I'm not sure I would walk immediately.

A mate of mine, Wesley Marshall, doesn't walk...ever. I would consider him one of my better mates, and he didn't walk when I got him Caught behind... A very distressing situation... So I understand that not everyone walks... Im just interested to see the percentages.
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Post by Biltong Sun 14 Jul 2013, 5:28 pm

I never walked, my batting average was something like 2.5 so they always had to drag me kicking and screaming from the pitch.

Besides that I never edged a ball, either missed it completely and heard it rattling my stumps, or hit it into the air.
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Post by liverbnz Sun 14 Jul 2013, 5:43 pm

Never played cricket at any level but I know for a fact given the way I play other sports that I would not walk. You get some decisions in your favour and some not - and they are extremely unlikely to even themselves out - so take the rough with the smooth and get on with it.

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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 6:11 pm

Biltong wrote:I never walked, my batting average was something like 2.5 so they always had to drag me kicking and screaming from the pitch.

Besides that I never edged a ball, either missed it completely and heard it rattling my stumps, or hit it into the air.

haha Biltong... That's hilarious!! You sound like you would be a Broad-esque reviewer. Even challenge if it hit your stumps, yes?
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Post by Biltong Sun 14 Jul 2013, 6:57 pm

kingraf wrote:
Biltong wrote:I never walked, my batting average was something like 2.5 so they always had to drag me kicking and screaming from the pitch.

Besides that I never edged a ball, either missed it completely and heard it rattling my stumps, or hit it into the air.

haha Biltong... That's hilarious!! You sound like you would be a Broad-esque reviewer. Even challenge if it hit your stumps, yes?

I always blamed an overzealous Keeper, stating categorically that I was in my crease. Whistle 
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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 7:05 pm

Biltong wrote:
kingraf wrote:
Biltong wrote:I never walked, my batting average was something like 2.5 so they always had to drag me kicking and screaming from the pitch.

Besides that I never edged a ball, either missed it completely and heard it rattling my stumps, or hit it into the air.

haha Biltong... That's hilarious!! You sound like you would be a Broad-esque reviewer. Even challenge if it hit your stumps, yes?

I always blamed an overzealous Keeper, stating categorically that I was in my crease. Whistle 

Laugh Reminds me of a game I played a year two years ago...The batsman got caught on the boundary.. and then started claiming from 70 yard away, that the fielder crossed the boundary line!! The guy was 10 meters in.
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Post by Biltong Sun 14 Jul 2013, 7:17 pm

kingraf wrote:
Biltong wrote:
kingraf wrote:
Biltong wrote:I never walked, my batting average was something like 2.5 so they always had to drag me kicking and screaming from the pitch.

Besides that I never edged a ball, either missed it completely and heard it rattling my stumps, or hit it into the air.

haha Biltong... That's hilarious!! You sound like you would be a Broad-esque reviewer. Even challenge if it hit your stumps, yes?

I always blamed an overzealous Keeper, stating categorically that I was in my crease. Whistle 

Laugh Reminds me of a game I played a year two years ago...The batsman got caught on the boundary..  and then started claiming from 70 yard away, that the fielder crossed the boundary line!! The guy was 10 meters in.
He should rather have claimed it bounced above his head to get a noball called, that's what I would have done.
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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 7:37 pm

Well. He was the Cricket South Africa U17 cricketer of the year... he could have told the umpire he isnt out because the sun disappeared just as he hit it, and it would have been Not out.
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Post by Guest Sun 14 Jul 2013, 7:37 pm

I am.

I was an extra on the Walking Dead

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Post by LivinginItaly Sun 14 Jul 2013, 7:57 pm

always a walker when playing beach cricket or messing around. Never played competitively, but from how I play football I know I would walk if I hit it.

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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 8:13 pm

From how I play basketball, or rugby... I probably wouldnt walk... In fact I would have my arms outstreched, mouthguard in one hand, absolutely clueless as to what Ive done wrong.


"What do you mean Im out if it clips my stump?"


Last edited by kingraf on Sun 14 Jul 2013, 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ...)
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Post by JDizzle Sun 14 Jul 2013, 10:03 pm

I don't walk and I have no issue with not doing it. I've had enough people nick it off my bowling and not walk. The way I see it is as long as you take the rough with the smooth and don't throw a paddy when you are given out incorrectly it is fine. And you have to be prepared to take the stick you will get.

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 14 Jul 2013, 10:17 pm

I think for many players (particularly, I would guess, at our sort of average level) you have to consider context.

My own playing days are behind me but I was always far more inclined to walk in a Sunday friendly than a Saturday league game. I've already acknowledged on the ''Holding:right or wrong?'' thread that I have immediately lost the right to claim any moral high ground here but still feel such actions were understandable (even though far from perfect).

Although I don't think we ever thought about it at the time, Sunday matches were very much about upholding the spirit of the game. Whilst we wanted to win, fairness was an integral factor. This applied to many aspects of the Sunday game. In particular, making sure everyone had an opportunity to be involved. If you didn't get a bat, you would almost certainly get a bowl even if your strike bowler had taken a fivefer and threatened to go through the tail. In such circumstances, 'walking' was considered by most to be a requirement of the day although not everyone adhered to it.

In contrast, league games on a Saturday revolved far more heavily around the result and any bonus points available. it was more akin to football and especially so if pushing for promotion or in a relegation dogfight. Not too surprisingly, many adopted the football maxim of 'playing to the whistle' or rather leaving the umpire to make the decision and not making it for him by 'walking'. Generally, opponents were less pleasant in league games - occasionally, bordering on the obnoxious - which only encouraged our batsmen to stand their ground even if they knew the appeal was valid; the view being that the opposition 'got what they deserved' if a legitimate appeal was not upheld.

A final point about context (which I mentioned on the 'Holding' thread although it seemed to go unnoticed or bored everyone rigid) and please note I've already acknowledged I have long since lost the moral high ground. In most league games, I would have waited to be given out if I had feathered the ball. However, even if in a league game against the rowdiest of opposition, I would have 'walked' if I had deflected the ball in the way that Broad did. Yes, I obviously know that being caught from a feather or a heavy deflection should should technically make no difference. However, Broad's deflection was so blatant and obvious that I would have been too embarrassed to stay at the crease and would have felt complelled to 'walk'. The 'obviousness' of Broad's dismissal made his continued presence at the wicket so unacceptable, regardless of what Dar did or didn't do.

For me, 'walking' isvery much about the circumstances of the day and the time. They are not often identical.

I can recall the odd occasion of a batman 'walking' having scored around 150 and his sportsmanship being described in glowing terms. That's fair enough but I would make the point that it's probably a lot easier to be sporting when you have a fine century to your name than when getting a first baller. Circumstances again.

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Post by gboycottnut Sun 14 Jul 2013, 10:21 pm

I thought that this question was more about are you a W#NKER!

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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 10:26 pm

I think for me, in summer I play in the Premier leagues, and winter the Premier Leagues, Ive been to the national club champs for two years now (Might miss them this year to rest my knee, awfully swollen after a long winter season) so Im so to say semi-pro. Because Im a walker, I think its a reputation Ive earned among umpires, and because of that, I think umpires look to me on appeals. If I dont walk, they arent going to give me out on a caught behind... unless its bleedingly obvious.
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Post by guildfordbat Sun 14 Jul 2013, 10:36 pm

kingraf wrote:
... Because Im a walker, I think its a reputation Ive earned among umpires, and because of that, I think umpires look to me on appeals. If I dont walk, they arent going to give me out on a caught behind... unless its bleedingly obvious.
Colin Cowdrey earned himself a reputation as a walker and was generally held in high esteem by umpires. Some critics felt he used this to his advantage at crucial times by not walking and thus encouraging the umpire to turn down the appeal.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 14 Jul 2013, 10:41 pm

I very much agree with Guildford about the context. I will always walk in a Sunday friendly, but in a league game I won't. If some doesn't walk off my bowling I will remind them about this, in a friendly way of course, and I expect it in return if I don't walk.

But yeah, I would never dream of hanging around if I had edged it like Broad. It would be just natural to walk off.

And it is well known around our team who our walkers and who aren't so if we are umpiring our own games someone on our team will be more than willing to give me and a few other non-walkers out, but if I am umpiring and someone I know is a walker doesn't move on an appeal I will generally give it not out unless I can see a clear deflection. No-one has used this to their own advantage yet and long may it continue hopefully!

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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 10:44 pm

Trust me Guildford... I couldnt use it to my advantage if I wanted to... I get a brain fade when I edge it, you could probably blow me over with the breeze... Simply not mentally solid enough to hang around.
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Post by guildfordbat Sun 14 Jul 2013, 11:02 pm

kingraf wrote:Trust me Guildford... I couldnt use it to my advantage if I wanted to... I get a brain fade when I edge it, you could probably blow me over with the breeze... Simply not mentally solid enough to hang around.
I do trust you, Kingraf. I'm so old that I remember Cowdrey and trusted him too, rightly in my opinion. In my book, he was a very fine batsman and man. Was just saying how some critics / cynics perceived things.

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Post by kingraf Sun 14 Jul 2013, 11:26 pm

Yeah things have changed... I used to captain my clubs First team (Which is actually the Second team, as the Premier team is the first team)... In one match, we were playing at a club with tube boundaries, which were torn off and scattered along the boundary lines. During the course of the match we were in a wee bit of trouble, and one of our boys went for the big shot... he got caught on the boundary, but because there was no rope, you couldnt actually tell if it was a six, or a catch. Being the captained I spoke to the fielder, a guy I knew since I was seven years-old. He said he caught it in the field. That was good enough for me, and I told the batsman to walk. Got fired for that... So not even Club cricket strongly encourages the spirit of the game anymore.
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Post by Mike Selig Mon 15 Jul 2013, 7:48 am

I've always walked at all levels from friendlies to international youth cricket (you can ask MfC who will verify if needed) - once earning myself quite a bit of criticism from my teammates which I thought was a bit off.

I've even walked for a stumping which the umpire wasn't going to give, and an LBW which he didn't in a friendly (for some reason, people in France take "friendly, so batting side umpires" to mean "don't give anything out" which I've always found strange).

I have however no issue as a player or coach with people who don't walk in competitive cricket with neutral umpires - that is their prerogative. As a coach if a player asked me I would encourage him to walk, but would never criticise someone for not doing so, and by the same vein won't openly praise someone for walking (although I may have a word in private).

What I do have an issue is with people not walking in self-umpired friendlies - when I captained my side in friendlies the instruction was "walk if you know you're out"; the reason being that not to do so IMO places unnecessary pressure on the non-neutral umpire, and creates avoidable tension.

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Post by Fists of Fury Mon 15 Jul 2013, 8:45 am

No, wouldn't walk. You win some you lose some.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon 15 Jul 2013, 9:13 am

I will verify that Mike has always walked, I think he's crazy Very Happy

I tend to side with the "walk in friendlies, but not in competitive matches" viewpoint. I recall an earlier friendly this year where I cut the ball to point who took a good "catch" diving forward where I really wasn't sure it had carried. Asked the fielder, who said it felt pretty good for him, and walked off. Would not have budged until given out in a League match.

Take Mike's point about self-umpired friendlies too (thankfully the spirit is better in SW France): some people take those wayyyyyy too seriously...

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Post by dummy_half Mon 15 Jul 2013, 9:32 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I will verify that Mike has always walked, I think he's crazy Very Happy

I tend to side with the "walk in friendlies, but not in competitive matches" viewpoint. I recall an earlier friendly this year where I cut the ball to point who took a good "catch" diving forward where I really wasn't sure it had carried. Asked the fielder, who said it felt pretty good for him, and walked off. Would not have budged until given out in a League match.

Take Mike's point about self-umpired friendlies too (thankfully the spirit is better in SW France): some people take those wayyyyyy too seriously...

Surely you mean wine? RedWine 

Anyway, I can see why many posters are saying that it depends on context - friendlies and games with 'home' umpires then yes absolutely walk. Competetive league fixtures it's a bit more at personal discretion. I like to think theat I'd have walked for a thin nick, but can't recall the issue ever having come up in my playing career - didn't often get out to thin edges, more often to LBW or bowled (tended to play a bit 'out to in', so was ion trouble if I missed one in front).

II'll add one comment though - I was wicket keeper for much of my playing career (at least until a young kid came through who was England age group and ended up playing County cricket), and I always felt highly aggrieved when I heard a clear edge, took the catch and the batsman just stood there (the most annoying case, and one for Mike to use as a cautionary tale for his keeper, was when I caught a guy off our spinner but didn't also stump him as he was a yard down the track - umpire gave it not out as I appealed and he got back into his ground).

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Post by Biltong Mon 15 Jul 2013, 9:41 am

I think the real question is, Are you a stalker?
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Post by dummy_half Mon 15 Jul 2013, 10:31 am

Biltong wrote:I think the real question is, Are you a stalker?

No - the restraining orders have all expired Wink 

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Post by Shelsey93 Mon 15 Jul 2013, 10:41 am

I am personally in the walking school though, oddly, I can't actually remember getting thin edges very often. In five years + of league cricket I can only remember having to walk once, when I gloved one which the umpire adjudged to have come off the bat handle.

My reasoning is that I am a believer that, within reason, you want the basic rules to be applied as accurately as possible. In the cricket I play we have members of our team umpiring who clearly aren't highly trained to do the job - if I can help them get to the right decision by walking then so be it.

Of course, the problem is that if you are a 'walker' you will by definition miss out on some runs somewhere as you will also have to go when you are wrongly given out. For that reason I can kind of understand professionals deciding not to walk when their careers depend on the number of runs that they score. That said, the Broad case was ridiculous: I'm pretty certain that nine times out of ten the batsman wouldn't even wait for the umpires decision with an edge like that.

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Post by Stella Mon 15 Jul 2013, 10:47 am

I would have walked. Broad has a lot of guts for not walking.
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Post by kingraf Mon 15 Jul 2013, 11:05 am

Oh, Broad was brave... Funnily enough the only time I can remember not walking, was off a similarly thick edge... go figure. Didnt work in any case...
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Post by Scrumpy Mon 15 Jul 2013, 11:14 am

Are you a walker?

IMO its not as easy as that.

At my level of cricket, yes I would have walked as the umpire would have been a team member of mine (as thats how we do it in our league) and failing not to walk would have made my team look like we were cheating.

If I was a pro and the Umpire is earning a very good wage then imo its up to the umpire to give me out as thats what he is there to do, the cricket authorities need to have a system in place where by the 3rd umpire can contact the umpire in the middle and say you've made a mistake his out.

Broad did nothing wrong in my eyes and I'd expect an Aussie to do the same at this level of competition.
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Post by Stella Mon 15 Jul 2013, 11:19 am

Scrumpy wrote:Are you a walker?

IMO its not as easy as that.

At my level of cricket, yes I would have walked as the umpire would have been a team member of mine (as thats how we do it in our league) and failing not to walk would have made my team look like we were cheating.

If I was a pro and the Umpire is earning a very good wage then imo its up to the umpire to give me out as thats what he is there to do, the cricket authorities need to have a system in place where by the 3rd umpire can contact the umpire in the middle and say you've made a mistake his out.

Broad did nothing wrong in my eyes and I'd expect an Aussie to do the same at this level of competition.

Good point.
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Post by kingraf Mon 15 Jul 2013, 11:21 am

This isnt actually a Broad discussion... Its a Broad inspired discussion. I get your point, of course. I dont think anyone actually holds Broad in a lower regard because he doesnt walk. Thats how Broad plays his cricket. One of those guys you have to drag away
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Post by sirfredperry Mon 15 Jul 2013, 11:24 am

I only play friendlies on Sunday. I once did not walk and felt awful about it, particularly as I was about to head off thinking the umpire was bound to give it, and then stayed when he ruled not out.
I received - probably well-earned - abuse from the fielding side and decided I would not try this again.
At first-class level it's a different ball game and it's down to the umpire, although I can understand those who think differently.

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Post by Stella Mon 15 Jul 2013, 11:28 am

Steve James mentioned, all pro players know you don't have to, so therefore it's ok. Kind of makes sense.
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Post by hodge Mon 15 Jul 2013, 1:16 pm

I will walk if I know i'm out 100%, if i'm not so even 99% I won't walk for not being certain.

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Post by kingraf Mon 15 Jul 2013, 1:33 pm

I don't walk for LBW's though. Don't care how plumb. If I gave it an inside edge I'll look at the edge of the bat, quite wistfully.
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Post by JDizzle Mon 15 Jul 2013, 1:56 pm

http://www.bordercountiesadvertizer.co.uk/news/88795/oswestry-cricket-match-erupts-into-violence.aspx

Hopefully this isn't the common occurence for non walkers. Shocked 

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Post by Scrumpy Mon 15 Jul 2013, 2:05 pm

Earlier this season I got someone out with a very obvious edge whilst they were on 6 their Umpire didn't give he then went on and made 156.

I took great pleasure at the end of the game in looking him in the eye and asking him why he didn't walk whilst shaking his hand, he didn't have an answer but he knew what he had done as he slumped off home rather than having a pint in the club house to celebrate his score with his mates.

We lost btw.
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Post by kingraf Mon 15 Jul 2013, 2:08 pm

Chris Broad is going to enjoy Reviewing footage of this match. The spirit of cricket is under a salt...
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Post by Biltong Mon 15 Jul 2013, 2:15 pm

Maybe Broad didn't know he should walk?

What if he was never told to walk?

What if there is a standing order in the change room not to walk?

What if he was paralysed at the shock of the edge and couldn't move?

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Post by kingraf Mon 15 Jul 2013, 2:23 pm

Could be on to something there Biltong. Some say that at the exact moment of the edge, Asafa Powell allegedly tested positive for a drug test... Broad felt the trans-atlantic disturbance in serenity, and didn't walk, not because he didn't think he edged it, but because he was frozen in disbelief at the fact that his hero was a doper... Its just a theory, mind
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Post by Carrotdude Mon 15 Jul 2013, 9:34 pm

I'll let you know when I get caught behind, having enough trouble not being bowled at the moment

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