Geale v Barker - Anybody give Barker a chance ???

First topic message reminder :

How good is Daniel Geale.............Looked good against Mundine..beat Sturm but is he all that!!!.................Good handspeed.........decent power but is open and likes a war........

Thought Barker did okay against Sergio.........But maybe he is to one dimensional for Geale.........

Will Barker need a ko ???

Think he has a chance................But I like Geale to win............Interesting fight though..........

Quite right, manos - I'd clean forgotten how fully Hoppo had cleaned up at 160 and that Taylor was undisputed as well. Hopkins aside, however, there has been a real dearth of quality among the middleweights for some time and it's good to see the depth returning.

Also agree about the desire to see a pecking order sorted among the British stars. Puts one in mind of the Finnegan/Sibson/Minter era, or, indeed, Benn/Eubank/Watson. In the latter case, though, there was also the spectre of Herol Graham, whom I long suspected would have stood the other three on their heads one way or another and was denied the chance to do so. It goes to show that the current inability to match the best domestic fighters against each other is not a new phenomenon.

azania wrote:I can't see any mw causing GGG any problems.

Lewis called Bruno an uncle tom. I've referred to Patterson in the same light, much to the annoyance of Truss. So why not continue especially as his question was based around his many insecurities which being American is pretty common.

We've moved on...........and stop having childish pops.............It's unbecoming......

Any fairminded poster can create an impression of you from your postings...so let's leave it there!!!!!!!

Finnegan - Sibson were from an age where World title fights were few and far between as there was only one champion.....However the fact that PPv is happening regardless of whether titles are on offer do suggest we are reaching a stage where titles are becoming meaningless...

only be a good thing from a domestic point of view and I can see some of these scraps happening.

And quite the fool Lewis looked in saying so, too. You are, of course, at liberty to keep saying what you like; that doesn't make it either correct or attractive. Even the great Ali was moved to apologise for some of the unwarranted slurs he cast the way of Frazier and Patterson - I'm not convinced that your case for continuing to offer them is any greater than Ali's was.

The current middleweight scene reminds me of the light middles of a few years ago. Whilst I think there is a bit more ability in our current middles there were some very evenly matched up fighters in and around light middle a few years ago such as Adrian Stone, Richard Williams, Steve Roberts, Wayne Alexander and some others and due to the usual promotional issues etc those fights never happened until most had picked a few losses up here and there and the fithts had lost much of their luster. Great pity but as the capt says not a new phenomena.

Rowley wrote:The current middleweight scene reminds me of the light middles of a few years ago. Whilst I think there is a bit more ability in our current middles there were some very evenly matched up fighters in and around light middle a few years ago such as Adrian Stone, Richard Williams, Steve Roberts, Wayne Alexander and some others and due to the usual promotional issues etc those fights never happened until most had picked a few losses up here and there and the fithts had lost much of their luster. Great pity but as the capt says not a new phenomena.

Captain is a big Saunders fan..........and for me Eddie Hearn is more a Boxing fan than Warren...He can afford to be with his rich pickings.......Hence Hearn may want to pit some of his stable together after all he can afford to lose some apples out of the trees........

Can see Saunders freezed out until he evaluates his future ..........

Like I said I think time has moved on..........Domestic showdowns could be the way forward........over here.

Awww take it easy big boy. You know I got your back.

I have to agree with Truss, from a "fan" perspective you can see that Hearn is very much like us, wants to see big fights which can sometimes be detrimental to his stable in that he matches them hard and early - whereas with Warren he seems like much more of a businessman and wants to make the fights that make him the most money. I think thats the appeal of Hearn, working with a guy who is in love with the sport you perform in as a genuine fan will always appeal over the guy who just wants to make money.

I don't think Barker tests Geale too much, although Mundine did show that Geale has flaws. barker isn't really reknowned for his power, I'd put him at Birtains #2 middleweight right now, think Murray has too much, Saunders is too green and Macklin is a shadow of the boxer who took Sturm the distance and in some peoples eyes, won. Think that knocked him.

Anyway, on topic - I think Geale takes a UD. Around 117 - 112.

If titles continue to become meaningless, how long before fights themselves become meaningless, and just a long procession of money fights? I hate "Silver", Diamond, Interim, Intercontinental fights as much as the next guy, but surely fights need to have some context for them to have any real importance?

Oh and Important backing Barker here.

A lot of fights HAVE been meaningless if you think about it Raf, look at Audley vs Haye or Pacquiao vs Rios - purely for money with no real threats being assessed. I guess its hard to find the middle ground.

Think being acknowledged as king of your own castle is possibly the last thing to lose its significance, raf. The "context" of being seen unequivocally as the best your country has to offer should, in theory, be easier to establish than on the world stage, where there is so often the caveat of the other belts, the dangerous guy who can't get a shot at any champion or some other complication.

Titles are only meaningless if they continually offer no guide to relative merit. The Ring belt, flawed though it is in some respects, remains one of few guarantors of the significance of fights.

I think a good fight should sell itself and if there was a reasonable belt system in place then standard eliminators or fights carrying ranking points would be fine. Barker v Geale is a decent fight on paper but its a phoney world title fight. Id rather see Barker v Macklin/Murray for European, Domestic or even no title at all than Barker v Geale for an empty world title.

I guess my fear is that World title fights Will eventually become meaningless, and by extension, so Will rankings. Next thing you know, fights are no more meaningful than Concert performances. Then we get boxing reality shows where the winners get five fight guarantees worth $5 million and the judges include a failed boxer, a Hollywood exec, and Laila Ali, America chooses who stays and who gomez home... hosted by Mario Lopez.
©Kingraf2013

I actually look forward to the day when they are meaningless completely. Other than commercial vehicles, they are meaningless. None of the sanctioning bodies deserve any respect or recognition from the fans. They are simply self serving money makers.

Don't sit on the fence eh manos?

You say this now, Manos, wait until Mario Lopez starts telling talentless people they have won having received 90 million votes from America.

Manos is right though it is not until the point that they render themselves absolutely ridiculous that someone within the sport be it the TV companies or the major promoters will realise that wholesale change is needed and action will be taken to reign in their excesses.

kingraf wrote:You say this now, Manos, wait until Mario Lopez starts telling talentless people they have won having received 90 million votes from America.

Didnt that happen with Manfredo Jr?

Rowley wrote:Manos is right though it is not until the point that they render themselves absolutely ridiculous that someone within the sport be it the TV companies or the major promoters will realise that wholesale change is needed and action will be taken to reign in their excesses.

By rights it should have reached that point long ago. When you have individual sanctioning bodies recognising two world chamoions in each weight class its beyond the limits of credibility. It makes me wonder at just what point enough will be enough?

You are of course forgetting the Emeritus, Diamond, Silver, Cherry, Bubblegum, and Intercontinental Titles

The most poisonous ones are the intercontinental, celtic and regional belts. All of these come with hefty sanctioning fees but carry rankings with their respective organisations. Basically means that if a promoter is willing to pay enough sanctioning fees to have these belts on the line they can effectively buy their fighters a high ranking. As Bob Mee perceptively says it reduces rankings to little more than Tesco Loyalty points.

I hate the International championship more... I mean whats the difference between that and the world title. Also find the non-existent weight class titles an irritant. Tommy Oosthuizen was once the Junior Heavyweight champion of the world... wtf¿

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Rocky Fielding 15-0 at 168 is the kind of tall rangy guy that might surprise a few people...Surprised he isn't mentioned more in the superb 168 mix !!

Thats how he's wants if for the time being Truss. He was scheduled for a 8 rounder on Saturday but the French fella pulled out and he has to fight a 4 rounder against a journeyman. He's coming along very nicely under Oliver.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Rocky Fielding 15-0 at 168 is the kind of tall rangy guy that might surprise a few people...Surprised he isn't mentioned more in the superb 168 mix !!

Thats how he's wants if for the time being Truss. He was scheduled for a 8 rounder on Saturday but the French fella pulled out and he has to fight a 4 rounder against a journeyman. He's coming along very nicely under Oliver.

One to watch out for.....

kingraf wrote:I hate the International championship more... I mean whats the difference between that and the world title. Also find the non-existent weight class titles an irritant. Tommy Oosthuizen was once the Junior Heavyweight champion of the world... wtf¿

Don't mind the international belt....Don't like it.......... but it's better than a Diamond, Super or interim because how the heck is a casual fan supposed to work out who's the proper champion........

Worst thing is when an average fighter finishes a fight and he has four belts dangling from various parts of his body!!

Casual - Whats that around his waist?
Fanatic - Its the Silver Championship
Casual - And around his shoulders?
Fanatic - Those are the Intercontinental championships.
Casual - So he is the world champ then?
Fanatic - Heavens no! He isnt even in the top ten.

kingraf wrote:Casual - Whats that around his waist?
Fanatic - Its the Silver Championship
Casual - And around his shoulders?
Fanatic - Those are the Intercontinental championships.
Casual - So he is the world champ then?
Fanatic - Heavens no! He isnt even in the top ten.

Good summary

I remember going to a Tommy Oosthuizen fight a
year ago, and trying to explain to my now-ex
girlfriend what the value of the IBO all-Africa title
on the undercard was.
Modify

Rocky Fielding looks like a bum to me. No shoulders either. In his last interview he said he isn't ready for Paul Smith yet so he's in no mix at all.

KingMonkey wrote:Rocky Fielding looks like a bum to me.  No shoulders either.  In his last interview he said he isn't ready for Paul Smith yet so he's in no mix at all.

No shoulders??  

KingMonkey wrote:Rocky Fielding looks like a bum to me.  No shoulders either.  In his last interview he said he isn't ready for Paul Smith yet so he's in no mix at all.

Some side and front laterals at the gym for six months ...He'll be the next Ray Leonard in Monkey's eyes...

He's only had 15 fights? And 3 of them where on the same night in which he stopped 2 of them in a round and 1 of them in the 2nd round. He's coming along very nicely. Needs couple more long fights before going after the British title.

No shoulders at all, like McCloskey and Barker for that matter. Not to mention Fielding seems to be as thick as pig poo. He's going nowhere.

It was mentioned earlier that Barker has worked a bit on his spite (if that's possible), and he's definitely a bit bulkier than he used to be. He looked a bit 'amateur' in style to me in the Martinez fight so I reckon he'll pack a bit more in his punches vs Geale. I'm looking forward to it.

KingMonkey wrote:No shoulders at all, like McCloskey and Barker for that matter.  Not to mention Fielding seems to be as thick as pig poo.  He's going nowhere.

Would I be right in saying you don't rate fielding...........Would a trip to night school and some shoulder pressing change your mind ?? 

I'm sure he's a nice guy and genuinely wish him well. I'm sure he'll be pleased to know that too but I'm just calling it as I see it.

I have to hold my hands up and say I've not seen Geale but my gut says that a man who went 12 rounds, twice, with a win and loss to a rugby league player who is one of the few men Sven Ottke KO'd probably doesn't have "pop", as Truss put it.

My assessment of Barker is a man who has considerable/better than average all round talent and has sat back on it. His last fight, although only one fight, seem to suggest he had got some urgency.

Men in glass cabins should throw Uncle Tom slander.... ;-)

Geale is a lot better than most are giving him credit for.

For all sense and purpose, he's undefeated. He was robbed in the first fight with Mundine.

He was the unified WBA/IBF middleweight champion. Only lost his WBA title due to Sturm dodging Golovkin. So the WBA punished Geale.

Geale's very skilful.

Gerry SA wrote:Geale is a lot better than most are giving him credit for.

For all sense and purpose, he's undefeated. He was robbed in the first fight with Mundine.

He was the unified WBA/IBF middleweight champion. Only lost his WBA title due to Sturm dodging Golovkin. So the WBA punished Geale.

Geale's very skilful.

A little more context needed...He isn't very skillful and he wasn't robbed...Contentious at best.

For shengy

Cheers Truss just had a good read over that, perhaps a Barker win on points?

What say you?

I've got Geale winning this one, but it really is a pick em fight. If Barker is going to get a world championship, this is his best opportunity

bhb001 wrote:I've got Geale winning this one, but it really is a pick em fight. If Barker is going to get a world championship, this is his best opportunity

Not convinced by Geale either Mate.....Genuine 50/50 battle............and a fight that deserves more attention..

Agreed Truss, could be a FOTY nomination...

You aren't trying to goad me are you ??

Very pleased to have my doubts about Barker confounded in such resounding fashion. Had felt beforehand that, while Barker and Geale were of roughly equivalent standard, Geale was the fighter more likely to know what it took to win and would, if nothing else, be able to outwork the Englishman.

Quite the reverse, as it turned out. Geale seemed to land the more hurtful blows, but Barker's fitness, workrate and sheer desire won him a tight but merited decision. Not many fighters can overcome such a crippling body shot, not only to rise and resume battle, but actually to end that superb sixth round by taking the attack to the champion. A superb display of resilience, which deserves the utmost respect.

Suspect that the two are sufficiently evenly matched for a second bout to be well worth viewing. Believe that Barker must defend against Sturm first, which will be tricky, however. We can debate what sort of chance Barker might have against the fearsome younger middleweight punchers who are transforming the 160 lb division, but he has earned the right to his place in the sun for now.

Well done to Barker...excellent performance...Should beat Sturm..........

May beat Martinez If they fought again....Martinez looks like an old man...

Stay clear of Goletkin though..

Chuffed to bits for Barker, and the very nature of his win mad it all the better, those body shots can be debilitating.

Thought Geale was a bit too confident of finishing it in the straight and got took by surprise how much Barker had in the tank rounds 9-11.

great win and a good guy.

Scored in 114-113 to Barker, close but definitely the right man won.