Alternative Training - How Effective

Watching Ringside last week I was surprised by a couple of things regarding Darren Barker.

Main things that surprised me was not only the fact that he used Yoga in training, but also the fact he was so open about it & open about the fact he doesn't do much running & I think I remember him saying he doesn't spar much either due to risk of injury. Just uses sparring to get his distance/timing right, not to have wars in sparring.

Now I'm one of these guys who believes in the old way of doing things - lots of running & sparring especially for me is an absolute necessity in training for a fight.

To me a fighter using Yoga in training is strange, it's more of a women's thing isn't it, & I would've thought it wouldn't have anywhere near the intensity to replace running or sparring in training

After watching Ringside I was thinking to myself that come Saturday, Barker probably won't have the fitness/stamina to last the full 12 at pace as all I'd heard of Geale was that he's an intense pressure fighter, made me think of Katsidis as he's an Ausie too, these types of fighters are usually the fittest out there, & if you can't out box or stop them then you are in trouble with not enough stamina to last.

So I thought Barker wouldn't last, but he did, and also on top of that he got up from that body shot, when he went down did any of you notice him kicking the floor as he was down with the pain of it? man that must've hurt, and just as we thought he wasn't getting up, he did.

He did a lot of Yoga in training, and he mentioned so many times on Ringside about breathing control, is it a coincidence he spent so much time on breathing control in training and then was able to get up & carry on when it looked like it was impossible to.

How much do you think this alternative training helped Barker in the end? & do you think it's time for boxing to move on & explore these alternative methods.

Couldn't imagine Freddie Roach having a Yoga session in the Wild Card, in between the hill runs & wars in sparring!

Carl Frampton does a bit too I believe.

If you think Yoga is easy then give it a go, it is total murder - did it for a while a few years ago and still have nightmares about it.....

Haha no wouldn't say it was easy exactly, walking up the stairs is a struggle for me sometimes these days, but more women do it than men

But I would certainly question if it's a worthy replacement to running etc, to me just doesn't seem as intense

hmm well I've ran 40min 10k, 1.30 1/2 marathon (nothing to worry Mo Farrah) ...and I know which is more painful and intense.... it is absolutely the living end of human suffering....mind you the old women in the class seemed to find it easy enough......

As someone who has never set foot in a gym and has no intention of breaking that tradition any time this side of the next millennium I am almost certainly woefully unqualified to comment but would not dismiss this out of hand. I know Ryan Giggs is a massive fan of yoga and credits it to some extent to him still being able to play at such a high level when nearly 40 year old so no reason it could not be of benefit to a boxer.

My own view would be with training there are obvious things that all fighters should be doing such as sparring etc but does not to be too rigid in your approach, as people are different, as such different things will work for different people. Fighters lifestyles outside the ring will also have an influence I would guess. Barker always looks like a guy who does not really blow up between fights so you would assume his training regime would be different to someone like Hatton who used to go back into camp a good way above his fighting weight.

rodders wrote:hmm well I've ran 40min 10k, 1.30 1/2 marathon (nothing to worry Mo Farrah) ...and I know which is more painful and intense.... it is absolutely the living end of human suffering....mind you the old women in the class seemed to find it easy enough......

My mum (aged 60) does both yoga and pilates fine.

The only guy I know that's said it was tough was a mate doing bikram yoga which is a whole different ball game.

Didn't think Barker had replaced the running with yoga, he does a lot of cycling and swimming to help with his fitness levels.

Isn't yoga just sitting with your legs crossed deep breathing?

What was so hard about it Rodders. If my fat old lady neighbour can do it, a trained athlete must be able to.

When the wife is out my alternative to training is to watch a Meg Ryan movie...

Very effective..

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Isn't yoga just sitting with your legs crossed deep breathing?
What was so hard about it Rodders. If my fat old lady neighbour can do it, a trained athlete must be able to.

er no that is ..something else...

Yeah thats an interesting one because athletes actually find it harder that elderly ladies in my experience...

My theory is that muscles are not flexible, athletes have through training stable joints but also muscle imbalances that make yoga very difficult. For example runners will have inflexible hamstrings, hips, back etc.

Obviously it depends on the level and type of Yoga but the likes ashtanga, bikram whatever are pretty full on.

Totally wrecked my knees so had to give it up, fantastic for core strength though so I'd say any athlete would benefit from it.

Yoga is all about levels

I doubt many of the elderly ladies who do it are participating in the high-intensity, advanced classes. Not that I am an authority, I merely used to know a guy who was a Pilates instructor, I was interested in what it was and what differentiated it from Yoga, etc.

He mentioned that in both disciplines the difficulty of the exercises you are doing, the frequency you do them, and the amount of time you do them for, allow for a very broad scope in intensity/difficulty - hence the reason he was telling me, with great enthusiasm, that both are easily accessible for beginners, yet still take many years to master.

As rodders alludes to, Yoga is meant to be highly effective in building core strength, obviously a key area for a boxer, and, judging by his recovery from a very painful looking bod shot, an area in which Darren Barker possesses considerable strength.

I hear you Rodders. When I was in my twentiesandd single myself and 5 lads from work decided to go to yoga to pick up women. There were about 30 women at the class and we were the novelty act.

In terms of doing the positions I couldn't get to grips with it at all. The basic thing of kneeling while sitting on your heels was impossible for me. After doing the course for 12 weeks and practicing at home I still couldn't do it. I had been squatting for more than a decade and had played football etc. I don't know if the problem was the way my muscles, tendons and joints developed or just my body mechanics.

My sister is a qualified yoga instructor, she studied it for 4 years in college. Her take on it is yoga is not for everybody and you should not be doing it if it is painful and sore. She recommended Tai Chi as a good alternative, it's apparently brilliant for core strength and stability. Tai Chi is actually one of the Marshall arts.

Marshall arts...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Marshall arts...

Reminds me I need to disable the iPads auto checker. It really is crap.

I believe you......Though millions wouldn't !!! 

I havent seen the interview, but i'd be guessing that barker isnt using yoga as an alternative to cardio. I'd guess he's using it to decrease his chances of injury.

I'd imagine he has a better grasp of the techniques than rodders has.

jimdig wrote:
I'd imagine he has a better grasp of the techniques than rodders has.

Yea in fairness I wasn't the most graceful yogi ......

I was doing Bikram yoga last year for a while & it is a tough workout. For those that don't know you do a 90 minute session in a studio at 40 degrees. Apparently the heat helps you stretch the muscles more as well as sweating out toxins that build up in the body. There are 2 breathing exercises as I remember and it is more of a energizing, detoxify yoga as opposed to some of the more traditional styles. I definitely found it beneficial, more energy & more supple. It can definitely benefit athletes & will help with cardio.

Now running is a decent exercise but it is not the b end & all of fitness training & especially for boxing. For those that run maybe 6 or 7 days a week you could easily swap half of those runs for swimming & circuit training sessions and in my opinion you would benefit more. Swimming is much gentle on the joints than running, circuit training works the whole body, strengthening it far more than running ever could and is also much more intense, really getting the heart rate up. Cross training like this would also benefit from 2 yoga sessions a week as there is also the relaxing side to it.

A good site to check out for boxing strength & conditioning training is www.rosstraining.com, he does mostly bodyweight exercises with skipping & running thrown in which include sprints as opposed to just long runs.

Question for anybody boxing at any level how often are you running & how far?