Champions League Group Stages

First topic message reminder :

The draw is tonight and we could have some potentially crazy strong groups, Manchester City have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

What is the tie everybody wants to see in the group stages?

Fancying Dortmund to win tonight (2-0), and make it a massive uphill struggle for Arsenal. Hope the Gunners can prove me wrong though.

I have quite literally no idea how we're winning in Dortmund  

On another night Dortmund would of been comfortable and won but credit to arsenal for this result, should easily qualify now.

So, we've all been debating whether Arsenal can win the Champions League yeah?

well I said they would get a result and they did. Not sure why people underrate the best prem team and overestimate the second best German one , but there you go/

Well done Arsenal, but not out of the blue really, what ever others think

Think it boils down to Dortmund being the second best team in europe last year Mysti while Arsenal are predicted to blow up as they always do. A good result from them tonight but if they're still churning out these results in march I will start to take notice.

Mysti - I agree great result but that was a smash n grab - Dortmund dominated. Your the best team in the EPL when you've won the title in may.

Brilliant result for Arsenal tonight, great stuff

Dortmund are a good side, as are arsernal,

both teams could have beaten each other.

there Inst a gap in quality.

over both legs both teams very similar.

Looking at both teams on paper and form that was pretty spot on tbh.

John wrote:Mysti - I agree great result but that was a smash n grab - Dortmund dominated. Your the best team in the EPL when you've won the title in may.

no chance. just the better team on the day, arsernal dominated in the home leg though and Dortmund did a smash and grab on them there!!

arsernal had more passes, more completed passes(percentage) and more possession in both games.

Yeah two smash and grabs by the away sides in the two games.

Funny old game

In the champions it's the group games that seperates teams, it changes the whole dynamic of the games and overall I would say there is a big gap in quality. That said there is a big gap in quality between Barca, Munich and Dortmund to any team in the premier league, they can be beaten on a given day but they're overall better teams.

no way- bayern is the only team that is far and away ahead, then possibly madrid and barca. I would say Dortmund are very similar in quality to citeh, chelsea and aresernal

and looking at the Germans third team(schalke)- i would say only mid level prem quality

mystiroakey wrote:and looking at the Germans third team(schalke)- i would say only mid level prem quality

Tad harsh Mysti

mystiroakey wrote:no way- bayern is the only team that is far and away ahead, then possibly madrid and barca. I would say Dortmund are very similar in quality to citeh, chelsea and aresernal

What short memories some have, Dortmund destroyed both City and Madrid last year so how they're a level below or equal to them I don't know. We're talking about teams here who were cast adrift in the title race last season by February or earlier in some cases, lets not be fooled into thinking the english teams are at the level of Dortmund.

Well done Arsenal

Didn't deserve to win, but then neither did Dortmund two weeks ago.

As Olly says, funny old game.

Should be qualification secured for Arsenal now.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:no way- bayern is the only team that is far and away ahead, then possibly madrid and barca. I would say Dortmund are very similar in quality to citeh, chelsea and aresernal

What short memories some have, Dortmund destroyed both City and Madrid last year so how they're a level below or equal to them I don't know. We're talking about teams here who were cast adrift in the title race last season by February or earlier in some cases, lets not be fooled into thinking the english teams are at the level of Dortmund.

crazy statement that tbh mate, its like your memory only started last year. basically all that has happened is 'normal service' has resumed.
.

Anyone thinking Dortmund are better than PL's top teams are the ones with the short memory's!!


Everyone wanted to call last season PL CL form as the new standard. It was just a blip as stated by the fans that dont get carried away

The current form of Chelsea and City isn't much to write home about while Arsenal are having a temporary purple patch. We may as well chuck the current United into that group then Mysti seeing as they are only 3 points behind Chelsea and 2 points behind City but that would be foolish. When it comes down to it and when it most recently mattered Dortmund were a level above all the english teams.

You are really grasping at straws to consider Dortmund above the pl top few based on one year and one year only. Sorry mate but you are just blowing smoke up there asses..

However I have no problem saying there are on par. No problem at all. BUt to call this team better isn't based on anything substantial.

Two league titles and a champions league final place isn't substantial enough then Mysti, what substantial evidence are you basing having Arsenal on their level on? The first 10 games of a season because if you are then you have to dismiss City and Chelsea, can't have it each and every way you want.

man u are in a shocking group and will easily qualify, the way they played last night was just ridiculously bad imo. I cannot put that team on par with the PL 3 trio at present.

But chelsea are so solid in Europe as proven again. Citeh are a top top team when they want to be, but no experience at this level yet..I do expect them to give Bayern one hell of decent game now that the pressure is off them qualifying.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Two league titles and a champions league final place isn't substantial enough then Mysti, what substantial evidence are you basing having Arsenal on their level on? The first 10 games of a season because if you are then you have to dismiss City and Chelsea, can't have it each and every way you want.

1. arsenal have had a much much better cl record than Dortmund over recent history.(dortmunds is actually really bad in comparison bar the last season.

2. Both teams were very even in these two recent games.

3. Arsenal plays in the PL- the average teams and top 10 are much better than the German equivalent.

4. Dortmund lost a couple of there best players to Bayern

5. Arsenal got the signing of the season, they also have got Ramsay in prime form and have got Wilshire back from injury. And for the first time in a long time they haven't lost a star player at the season end!!

the maths adds up  

How can you not place United at that level but you do Chelsea and City considering we outperformed them in the two biggest competitions last season and are just 3 points off second place? You then place Arsenal at that level based on 10 games of this season before which they hadn't done anything for years?

mystiroakey wrote:You are really grasping at straws to consider Dortmund above the pl top few based on one year and one year only. Sorry mate but you are just blowing smoke up there asses..

However I have no problem saying there are on par. No problem at all. BUt to call this team better isn't based on anything substantial.

Arsenal are the best team in the EPL this season and Arsenal have really struggled against Dortmund. Both teams have beaten each other once. I would say that Dortmund are above Man U, Liverpool and Tottenham and are slightly above Chelsea and Man city. Arsnel and Dortmund are on par.

I understand you saying Dortmund are a new team in terms of success in the champions league etc but they have won the German league a few times very recently and in football the team you have at your disposal right now is all that matters. It doesn't matter if Dortmund were poor in Europe in 2011 or 2010 because right now it is 2013 and Dortmund are a big team.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:How can you not place United at that level but you do Chelsea and City considering we outperformed them in the two biggest competitions last season and are just 3 points off second place? You then place Arsenal at that level based on 10 games of this season before which they hadn't done anything for years?

1. man u have lost Ferguson

2. form is bad to shocking.

2+2= 4

Is the form of City and Chelsea that much better considering they are no more than 3 points above us?

They are both showing signs of great form to come. Man u look like a team being bailed out by two world class players and have no identity at the moment

Id say Dortmund would be rightful favourites to knock out City and Chelsea. And still Arsenal. Probably any team but Bayern and Barca.

Chelsea were showing great signs when they were losing to Newcastle Mysti?

Say what you want about the rest of the team but when you've got one of the best strikeforces in the world it can make up for a lot of deficiencies, just look at City without Kompany.

Fantastic result for Arsenal yes, but they got battered by Dourtmund tonight. Very similar to Celtic beating Barca last season. 

Im not slating it or trying to remove there success, it was a fantastic win and full credit to them. Wouldn't rule them out getting a win at Old Trafford on Sunday.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Id say Dortmund would be rightful favourites to knock out City and Chelsea. And still Arsenal. Probably any team but Bayern and Barca.

For me it'd be dependant on them getting injured players back. Without Hummels, Pizczek (cant spell it), Gundogan tonight. Big losses

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Id say Dortmund would be rightful favourites to knock out City and Chelsea. And still Arsenal. Probably any team but Bayern and Barca.

they would be favs yes, only close favs V Chelsea and Arsenal though.. Citeh are an unknown force and tbh quite similar to Dortmund a year ago. I think they along with PSG could beat anyone on there day and are the dark horses

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Chelsea were showing great signs when they were losing to Newcastle Mysti?

Say what you want about the rest of the team but when you've got one of the best strikeforces in the world it can make up for a lot of deficiencies, just look at City without Kompany.

one bad game and then fought back hard after that loss by dominating the Germans third best team.... again...

Think you'll find Mysti that United trounced the third best German side 4-1 but lets overlook the good we've done and all the bad Chelsea have done.

BTW sorry to Bayer who are actually by far Germans 3rd best team.... Schalke top 4.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Think you'll find Mysti that United trounced the third best German side 4-1 but lets overlook the good we've done and all the bad Chelsea have done.

that only helps the original point- but yes you are right

Despite being 6th at the moment, Schalke have been fairly pants in the Bundesliga this year so far.

paints in the CL as well..

the bundesliga is turning into the LA liga/SPL mark 3.

The la liga are getting out of it with Athletico. Top side!!

mystiroakey wrote:paints in the CL as well..

the bundesliga is turning into the LA liga/SPL mark 3.

The la liga are getting out of it with Athletico. Top side!!

From 04/12 (8 years) only United or Chelsea won the league.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:paints in the CL as well..

the bundesliga is turning into the LA liga/SPL mark 3.

The la liga are getting out of it with Athletico. Top side!!

From 04/12 (8 years) only United or Chelsea won the league.

during those 8 years our top 4 teams did very well in the CL though to prove there worth Europe wide

We had four different finalists and two different winners in that time didn't we, no other country can match in recent years.

mystiroakey wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:paints in the CL as well..

the bundesliga is turning into the LA liga/SPL mark 3.

The la liga are getting out of it with Athletico. Top side!!

From 04/12 (8 years) only United or Chelsea won the league.

during those  8 years our top 4 teams did very well in the CL though to prove there worth Europe wide

Fair enough but the epl has been dominated by 2 teams in united and chelsea over the last 10 years. You were talking about the bundasliga turning into la liga/spl because 2 teams dominate those leagues.

They may have dominated in terms of winning but there were not far out above like the other leagues mentioned.

mystiroakey wrote:They may have dominated in terms of winning but there were not far out above like the other leagues mentioned.

Don't worry Arsenal will win the epl this season and break up the united/chelsea dominance.

There's been four winners in the past ten years with five teams coming in the top three, Liverpool had four top three finishes in five years or something similar. In 08/09 they were only four points of the lead losing only twice while having the most potent attack in the league, think it was the season we had a back four resembling a brick wall.

The so called dominance City have already broken up coming third, first and then second.

There has been little dominance in the EPL. Sure, Chelsea/United have won the majority of titles in recent years, but they have been pushed hard by Citeh/Liverpool/Arsenal, it's not like they've run away with it.

Duty281 wrote:There has been little dominance in the EPL. Sure, Chelsea/United have won the majority of titles in recent years, but they have been pushed hard by Citeh/Liverpool/Arsenal, it's not like they've run away with it.

Could say the same about the German league. I think they have had 4/5 different winners in the last 10 years.

I would say there has been a dominace in the epl in terms of winners. Man U have clearly dominated the epl having won it 13 times out of a possible 20.

Arsenal have won the epl 3 times with the last time coming 10 years ago. Man city have won it once after spending close to a billion pounds in 5 years on players and chelsea have won it 3 times but they have only won the epl 1 time in the last 7 years. EPL is dominated by Man united.