La Motta v Froch

Who wins middle/super catchweight.

Watching La Motta video clips I can't help but feel unimpressed but that guy sure was tough. How would he fair aginst the Cobra.

it would have to be fought in the trenches with a 'must leave it all in the ring and not take anything back out' stipulation though

I'm a Froch fan, but see Jake being the busier of the 2 and building up an early enough lead to take this on points, Froch will try to rally but too little too late IMO.

I'd see it the other way round, LaMotta was a very slow starter who ripped and clawed his way back into fights late on. Either way neither of them is getting knocked out.

Personally think fighters like LaMotta are on a different level to fighters these days, Froch can be a lazy fighter, LaMotta is the better boxer of the 2 by a mile just can't see him losing this one.

You what?

LaMotta may be a better fighter but that's all he ever was a snarling brawling fighter he was no boxer, as far as boxing ability goes Froch has him beaten all ends up and he's not even a stylist.

Froch for me, think LaMotta gets a bit overrated on the back of him being the first guy to take a win of Robbo. Fine win and all that but going one in six in the series gives a better indication of his level to me. The only question for me is how hard Froch makes this for himself. Jake openly acknowledged himself he struggled with slick boxers and whilst I am not stupid enough to argue Carl is Willie Pep but as he proved against Abraham he can box when the mood takes.

Don’t see a stoppage in this one as both have cast iron jaws and Jake does not really hit massively. However if Carl chooses to go into warrior mode it could be close on the cards as Jake is pretty active and loves a brawl but every advantage in terms of size and reach seems to be with Carl in this one.

With Jeff on this one. Froch is the bigger man and can box behind a decent jab when he wants to. If he chooses to approach Jake in the way he approached Abraham, he wins this comfortably on points.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:You what?

LaMotta may be a better fighter but that's all he ever was a snarling brawling fighter he was no boxer, as far as boxing ability goes Froch has him beaten all ends up and he's not even a stylist.

Froch has been outboxed by Ward, Taylor and arguably Dirrell,Froch can be a lazy fighter,always want Froch to win but LaMotta wins it for me.

Could La Motta take Froch's power?

Thats the key for me. That guy was seriously tough and he is still going strong at 90 odd.

I don't see any correlation between losing to stylists in Ward and BEATING Taylor and Dirrel to a fight with a smaller brawler.

Froch would likely bust up La Motta's face with Jake being stopped on his feet howling in frustration. Froch still has height and reach on his side and whilst it's unlikely he takes La Motta out clean, he won't be hard to find. Jake gets in close, Froch ties him up.

Fairly wife UD for Froch or, if he puts his foot on the gas, a late albeit controversial stoppage.

Just hope he doesn't start banging on about Warriors afterwards!

My riposte to Jeff, here, would be to ask how many times, in a series of 6, Carl Froch would beat Andre Ward? I'd wager zero.

For Lamotta to beat Robinson just once is an almighty feat, surely? I think you chaps are selling Jake a little short here, although you might be right as to the outcome. Quite a significant size difference.

Don't think you can rule La Motta out completely. I agree that his reputation across history gets badly blown out of all proportion, but having seen the likes of Johnson and Kessler give Froch trouble with their sheer activity, it's not totally impossible that La Motta, who can take Froch's power, might outwork him to a scrappy decision.

La Motta did even manage to take a round or two off Robinson in their sixth fight with his boxing rather than pure brawling, which takes some doing.

However, I think the general jist of Froch being a bit too big and a bit too strong for Jake is close to the money, and if he fights smart (so basically fights anywhere other than on the inside, where La Motta is better than him) then he should be able to win on the cards by a few points. La Motta's tactics were generally more effective against men rising from Welter, and while Froch isn't the biggest 168 pounder, he'd have to have a real off night to get softened up to the body against Jake.

Froch by something like 8-4 in rounds over twelve, or 10-5 over fifteen.

Fists of Fury wrote:My riposte to Jeff, here, would be to ask how many times, in a series of 6, Carl Froch would beat Andre Ward? I'd wager zero.

For Lamotta to beat Robinson just once is an almighty feat, surely? I think you chaps are selling Jake a little short here, although you might be right as to the outcome. Quite a significant size difference.

I approve this post.

Strongback wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:My riposte to Jeff, here, would be to ask how many times, in a series of 6, Carl Froch would beat Andre Ward? I'd wager zero.

For Lamotta to beat Robinson just once is an almighty feat, surely? I think you chaps are selling Jake a little short here, although you might be right as to the outcome. Quite a significant size difference.

I second this post.

I agree it is a fine achievement but let’s not forget it was achieved in an era where fighters fought with a regularity that is unheard of today. As such it was not unusual to see guys drop decisions to guys they had no business losing to as they frequently went in with niggling injuries or just plain knackered. The really extraordinary thing about it is Robinson had not done it sooner under those conditions.

An not wanting to downgrade it as an achievement but would say as I always have that if you dump any fighter from the modern game in such conditions, be it Floyd, Ward or any other their 0’s are going. Flip side to that is was Robinson to be given three months of gap between every La Motta fight I suspect he is not even losing one of the six.

Fists of Fury wrote:My riposte to Jeff, here, would be to ask how many times, in a series of 6, Carl Froch would beat Andre Ward? I'd wager zero.

For Lamotta to beat Robinson just once is an almighty feat, surely? I think you chaps are selling Jake a little short here, although you might be right as to the outcome. Quite a significant size difference.

Froch is capable of beating Ward at least once i'd say but at the same time he doesn't enjoy a weight advantage of near on 14lbs.

The fight is at catchweight so Froch comes down in weight, its not at supermiddle.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:

Fists of Fury wrote:My riposte to Jeff, here, would be to ask how many times, in a series of 6, Carl Froch would beat Andre Ward? I'd wager zero.

For Lamotta to beat Robinson just once is an almighty feat, surely? I think you chaps are selling Jake a little short here, although you might be right as to the outcome. Quite a significant size difference.

Froch is capable of beating Ward at least once i'd say but at the same time he doesn't enjoy a weight advantage of near on 14lbs.

Bwahahahah...........

Id say Froch, currently, beats Wars 4 out of 6 times.

Inactivity is key against a guy in his prime ripping fighters to shreds.

But Ward prefers fighting in his garage with only his family as fans and the judges being his mates.

If he ever went into the shores of UK and entered a trench (something this guy has never experienced in his fighting career) then he gets taken out and battered.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Id say Froch, currently, beats Wars 4 out of 6 times.

Inactivity is key against a guy in his prime ripping fighters to shreds.

But Ward prefers fighting in his garage with only his family as fans and the judges being his mates.

If he ever went into the shores of UK and entered a trench (something this guy has never experienced in his fighting career) then he gets taken out and battered.

So he goes into the trenches only for Froch to take him out of the trenches? Seems a waste of a perfectly good trench to me?

Fists, Lamotta had a considerable size advantage over Sugar in his sole victory. By the time Robinson was even approaching being a middleweight it Sugar all the way.

Personally I think Froch Abrahams him for much of the first 12 with it being pretty even and violent for the remaining 3. Lamotta could tuck his chin behind his shoulder and evade shots better than Abraham, but his punching power was quite poor. Physically strong though he was, I sont think Froch has anything to fear at all. Lamotta's too tough for Froch to put down, but given the size difference he definitely couldn't walk onto too many Froch uppercuts.

Trenches trenches trenches, i'm going to the ruddy trenches just trying to deal with all this talk of trenches!!!!

Rowley wrote:I agree it is a fine achievement but let’s not forget it was achieved in an era where fighters fought with a regularity that is unheard of today. As such it was not unusual to see guys drop decisions to guys they had no business losing to as they frequently went in with niggling injuries or just plain knackered. The really extraordinary thing about it is Robinson had not done it sooner under those conditions.

An not wanting to downgrade it as an achievement but would say as I always have that if you dump any fighter from the modern game in such conditions, be it Floyd, Ward or any other their 0’s are going. Flip side to that is was Robinson to be given three months of gap between every La Motta fight I suspect he is not even losing one of the six.

Perfect response, Jeff. Thanks for that. Thought it was worth challenging but you came up trumps.

Froch by late kayo on cuts or on points.

Don't think he knocks him outright thought; contender for best chin of all time, was LaMotta.

I think Lamotta's great asset was that he was relentless............People forget when saying Whittaker would be succesful back in the day that he couldn't fight like he does now....Or they'd chuck him out!!!.........They didn't like stinkers back then.....

Lamotta would force Froch to work..............

A hot steamy night at the polo grounds..........He takes Froch's shots and then does him between the 13-15th....

Like he turned the frenchman over........

Cerdan was pulled out with a shoulder injury wasn't he?