Is All Blacks V Springboks the biggest rivalry/contest in international rugby?

Sure the Poms taking on Wales or Scotland are big matches for them, but IMO nothing compares to an All Blacks V Springboks encounter. The All Blacks and Springboks have been the two best teams since time began (except for odd patches where another team has temporarily been good before the natural order has been restored. We've had terrific contests over the years. So many memorable series...


It is without doubt the greatest rivalry in international rugby.

Agree? Disagree? Want to sit on the fence and not agree or disagree?

For SA it is the ultimate.

Not sure it is for all New Zealanders though. Perhaps the older generation still see us as their biggest rivals.

YES:hug:   

I'd say Wales vs Ireland these days!

Depends on your definition of biggest rivalry / contest. I actually think Wales vs Ireland in recent years have given us the best showcase of rugby: a mixture of defence and attack. There have been cases of SA and NZ putting in some great performances individually but the game like the first one in Soccer City where Nonu lost a boot was an example of a humdinger. There's hope that this Satirday will bring something similar.

The argument that the 6n is the best tournament because of its history is relevant to the SA NZ rivalry. As the OP states other teams have fleetingly dipped in and out of the top two sides but these two nations have overwhelmingly figured among the top two sides. The Wallabies of Lynagh and Larkham eras took the spotlight off that rivalry as did England and indeed the isolation years. But it's always been there and as a NZ fan, I always take note of the overall records and know that only recently SA has dipped below NZ's winning record. Other countries will no doubt argue against this but for me NZ's biggest rivalry is SA. Why? Because when we beat them I know it hurts. They want to be number one. Other sides want to beat NZ but they don't always think they can or don't have any sense of entitlement. SA does think they can win and they want to win every game. That'll do for me because I feel the same way a out winning.

Yes... in rugby union terms, why because its a contest and has been a contest since the dawn of sport.

England vs NZ isn't really a rivalry because NZ almost always win.

England has a massive rivalry which Australia as it covers so many sports; cricket, union, league, olympics... like twins fighting over the same girl.

SA have only ever won 1 series in NZ. NZ have only ever won 1 series in SA. SA have won 2 RWCs, NZ have won 2 RWCs. Prior to re-introduction in 1992, SA had won 20 matches, NZ 15.

In ther modern era NZ have been more dominant but due to the number of games they play these days its skewed the historical data a little towards NZ more then history actually points too. In the old days they played on average about 1 game a year (albeit it was really 1 series every 4 years with 4 tests in 1 year). These days its minimum 2 a year, used to be 3 and in RWC's and they've played each other 3 times in the last 5 world cups so historical dominance is heavily skewed towards the last 10-20 years.
In 20 years time, SA could become dominant again and eat away at that deficit.

Its the ultimate match up of styles... everyone gets up for playing the poms because everyone loves to beat their old colonial "arrogant" masters, from those in the 6N to Argentina (Falklands) and the 3N former colony's..... but ask a AB who they'd rather beat if they could beat anyone and it would be SA... and it would be the reverse in SA in all probability.

Yes, agree.

For a while there I was probably NZ v Australia while SA were taking a break and Aus had the likes of Mark Ella playing; but even then the springboks loomed as some mythological foe.

Briefly around 2002 it was NZ v England, until England were put back in their box in late 2003 with that 3-0 drubbing by around 30 points, from which they are still to recover. 

But now the Boks are back to something approaching their best and the enduring rivalry has been resumed.

There's always something to NZ vs France matches, given their RWC history, but otherwise I agree, NZ vs SA games typically involve the two best sides in the world other than the period when SA were out of the picture, and the 1999 - 2001 period when the Aussies were decent.

In the NH I'd say Wales vs England and France vs England were probably the most keenly contested rivallries. The Calcutta Cup is important to us Scots (plus Scotland vs England was the first ever game of international rugby, so it is the oldest rivalry), but I think we've won it only 6 or so times in my lifetime and it has rarely been a classic contest.

Absolutely. I never get the same sense of dread that I have this week for any other side though it hasnt happened so much lately. Oz have a different effect. We expect fireworks and really out there fanatic rugby.

The boks are these uncompromising stormtroopers who are going to march over anyone in their way.Not pretty, but efficient. brrrrr...its cold in here...

not pretty. Huh.

I can tell you there s something awe inspiring with a rampant bok side, when they run through the field like Springbuck and it comes wave after wave, power running at it's best, the hits are brutal, the rucks fierce and the stare that gives you a cold chill down your spine as the ball carrier comes at you with every fibre of his being.

not pretty, blegh.

Wales v England must go close. I've only been paying attention for 5 or so years, but I'm yet to see a cease fire. It seems pretty intense at least amongst the fans.

France vs England is clearly the biggest rivalry...for probably 99% of French people. back in the 80s/90s, those games were filled with excitement, anger, fear, brutality and many other things. it was war. in the pro era, it has gone a bit soft specially since some french players ended up playing with brits (or even in england) and discovered they were normal human beings after all

so it all depends where you come from and the emotion one particular game can bring but in terms of pure contest yes NZ vS SA is clearly at the top.

Georgia Russia must have some feeling. USA vs Russia turned out to be Cold War than heated rugby war.

I think whocares has a point... in terms of hatred I think England vs. France is quite possibly the biggest. The next I would say Ireland vs. Argentina... those boys just don't get along.

SA vs. NZ has a mutual respect which stretches back decades.

Certainly on current form it is the biggest contest and one i think we are all excitedly anticipating this weekend...!

Population is a more relevant yardstick than "current form".

Thus, England v France. This is likely to remain the case, barring any 'sea changes' in migration dynamics.

I've seen tons, and there are a few I haven't had the chance to see, but for me the Scottish reaction to England rocking up at Edinburgh is as good as it gets. Scotland can be in the worst shape of all time yet they want that scalp more than any, it's a rivalry that goes beyond the sport!

Similarly to the emotion of Ireland V England at Croke park.

I think the Wales v Ireland rivalry is a bit of nothing, 2 very good teams full of respect for each other.

I havn't caught NZ in SA yet, although I have seen Australia there and it was good.

Looking at record books too, none are as tight and closely fought as Wales v England.

New Zealand have been the major rugby challenge during my lifetime, not withstanding their failure to win World Cups and occasional ceding of the top spot.

However, I think I'm the wrong generation to see All Blacks vs Boks as the ultimate rivalry. It's much more understandable these days but, for over a decade after the return from isolation, England found South Africa the easiest of the big 3 Southern Hemisphere opponents, even winning away Tests on a couple of occasions.

Of course, our record now against them is the worst of the Big 3 but, as England have struggled, the Boks have lost Tests to Ireland, France, and Scotland (the last of which denied them a Grand Slam). They haven't been clearly, or consistently, the best or second best team to give their battles with New Zealand a special status.

Having said that, I can't wait for this weekend's match. It looks like being one of the juciest encounters in some time.

As an England fan I get most excited about playing France and Australia as there's a lot of history and there always seems to be a fair bit of edge and banter.

I don't think there's really such a thing as 'rugby's biggest rivalry' as it's different for different people and you'll always see more from your own point of view. I certainly don't see NZ/SA as the biggest even though they're probably the best two teams at the moment.

I've got a feeling that after all this build-up the  weekend's NZ/SA game is going to be 9-9 and a bit of a stodgy affair.

Rugby Fan wrote:New Zealand have been the major rugby challenge during my lifetime, not withstanding their failure to win World Cups and occasional ceding of the top spot.

However, I think I'm the wrong generation to see All Blacks vs Boks as the ultimate rivalry. It's much more understandable these days but, for over a decade after the return from isolation, England found South Africa the easiest of the big 3 Southern Hemisphere opponents, even winning away Tests on a couple of occasions.

Of course, our record now against them is the worst of the Big 3 but, as England have struggled, the Boks have lost Tests to Ireland, France, and Scotland (the last of which denied them a Grand Slam). They haven't been clearly, or consistently, the best or second best team to give their battles with New Zealand a special status.

Having said that, I can't wait for this weekend's match. It looks like being one of the juciest encounters in some time.

England has won only one game in SA since the pro era started.

For rivalry, it could be Georgia vs Russia.  Plenty of history between those two countries to add a bit of spice.

You don't necessarily have to be the two best teams to have the bigget rivalry.

Biltong wrote:England has won only one game in SA since the pro era started.

We won the first match we played in South Africa after your international return. That's a long time ago now but it set the tone for how the Boks appeared as a challenge. England hadn't won a tour match in the south for ages and that 1994 match was a pretty overwhelming win. As supporters, we weren't really expecting that.

It doesn't mean England had your number - although we later racked up that series of wins - but it does mean that it was hard as an England fan to rate the Bok challenge any higher than three of four other teams.

In terms of rugby surely it has to be the biggest rivalry because of their respective positions in rugby.
In terms of other personal things then its probably your team vs someone else

Thats right Ngan for us it was Ponsonby, East Tamaki and Manukau Rovers...grrrrrh!

I guess it depends if you live in the NH or the SH. as to which teams are the biggest rivalrys?

in the six nations for a Welsh supporter, its always been England, there's no doubt about that but i got a feeling next year its going to be Ireland  

Rivalry is an emotion and its a bit silly to ask whose emotion is bigger. For me, there is no greater rivalry than when Wales play England but I doubt that is important to a South African.

As a contest, I look forward to NZ v SA games as the rugby is often briliant and they have been amongst the best teams for as long as I can remember.

BB - England also won in 2000 as well as in 1994... been a dry spell for them since mind.

Yes, I eluded to the win in 2000, but that was the only win in SA during the pro era.

1994 was in the amateur era.

1992 to 1994 was just after our return, beating us then was nothing to brag about, just about everyone beat us then, JOhn Williams and Ian McIntosh lost about 60% of their matches in that time,

It's the Calcutta Cup for me, though it has never been particularly personal - it's a rivalry I can turn on and off at will. The game that hurts the most to lose for me has to be against Wales - I still feel sick when thinking about 2010...

Rivalries aside, the match I used to look forward to most was Wales v France, with a brilliant mix of flair, grit and mercurial skill. However the last few matches have been so turgid and dull that I'm not sure!

I'm willing to be converted to a New Zealsnd v SA lover!