Building The Perfect Player (Part 1 - The Best Serve)

Things are rather quiet on the forum so I thought why not embark on building the best player imaginable with a range of skills and traits from past greats of the game. I will devise a list (compiled by you of course) and then put it out to vote and the winner will be decided. It will cover the following areas:

Best Serve
Best Forehand
Best Backhand
Best Volley
Best Footwork
Best Mentality

So today's subject is Serve. Please list below who think has been the best server in the game? Is it Pistol Pete? A-Rod? Becker? Scud? Goran? Edberg?

Goran Ivanisevic. Boris Becker said it was even harder than Petes serve.. Like Becker said "You couldnt touch it - first or second. Your only hope was to make him mad then he chucks a double fault and and an unforced error, and thats the only chance your going to get"

Serve to me should be split into first and second serves.

In relation to first serve, I would probably go with Karlovic. The combination of bounce, angle and pace make him extremely difficult to handle. The other main contenders for me would be Sampras and Goran.

Second serve - Isner. Just scary how reliable it is and how much kick he gets.

I'm tempted to say Pete or Goran but I have to keep in mind that they played on conditions that were perfect for banging down serves, especially at Wimbledon.

For repertoire, accuracy and being able to produce a great one under pressure, I'd put Federer right up there too.

To pick one, I'll go with Pete. I suspect Goran could produce the more blunt force trauma but I think Pete had more craft.

Pete Sampras

Goran had the better serve, Pete had the better mental state, but since this is a question of serve, surely ability under pressure is a void argument?

There's a few contenders for best first serve, but if first and second are going to be under one category then it absolutely has to be Sampras. His second serve was better than most players first serve!

In terms of the other categories, should shots like slice and smash be included? Or would, for example, backhand slice be part of the process for finding the best overall backhand?

And I know you've got footwork in there, but that is very different from speed, and both are very different from anticipation which forms a big part for any good defender.

Not saying you should have a billion categories, just wondering if you want to consider a few more.

thats true, if you picked Djokovics backhand could you still have Federer's slice?

I think I prefer it as "best backhand", it creates compromise, which in turn creates better debates.

Born Slippy wrote:Serve to me should be split into first and second serves.

In relation to first serve, I would probably go with Karlovic. The combination of bounce, angle and pace make him extremely difficult to handle. The other main contenders for me would be Sampras and Goran.

Second serve - Isner. Just scary how reliable it is and how much kick he gets.

Gotta agree here, Johnny boy's 2nd serve is the best in the business, he can hang in just with that for 5 days like the marathon match we saw in Wimbledon, no player in history can win a match just by his serve and that includes the great Sampras against a top quality player like a top tenner, first serve I will stick with Goran, but 2nd serve its ultimately Johnny Boy.

Given the slower conditions today John Isner gets extra marks and if I had to choose one serve for free points its his, but can John Isner that good if he is only normal height say like a Fed, Sampras or Rafa?, so in relation to perfection I would go with either A-Rod or Pete or Fed, I would go with A-Rod in general, coz while the height was a benefit for players like Goran, John , Karlovic it affected their other parts of the game.

kingraf wrote:Goran had the better serve, Pete had the better mental state, but since this is a question of serve, surely ability under pressure is a void argument?

I'd say the ability to produce the shot in question is vital!

In response to the suggestions of Isner, awesome serve, but I rate it less because it is so linked to his height. Its potency comes not so much from technique as from the fact it's coming down from about 3m above the court!

I didn't realise Pete was "only" 6'1. To me, he looked taller. In terms of just the serve and the serve only, either Isner or Karlovic have the best serve ever. They both hit it incredibly hard and with the bounce and spin, it's near impossible to return, especially on a fast court (see: Cincinatti). Raonic shouldn't be discounted but I think he has too many off days on serve. For best serve in terms of height, it's pretty much Pete all the way (or Verdasco on a good day).

On a good day, Verdasco has the best every thing in mens tennis - volley, serve, forehand, backhand...

HM - I cant see why ability to produce the shot in a pressure situation is important when Best mentality is already a criteria. Ivanisevic led the tour in aces for the majority of the nineties, no mean feat, neither was smacking 40 aces past Agassi (in a losing cause)...

Kingraf, I'm applying arbitrary rules, of course!

But I think it has to be a consistent, reliable shot. I'm viewing it as "who was the best at serving" rather than "who was capable of the best serve".

Although I didn't choose Pete over Goran for reliability. It was because I think Pete's was the better-developed weapon.

Of course we agree to disagree... But Ivanisevic went through Wimbledon '92 averaging 30 Aces match (213 total).... Sampras' highest aggregate in a tournament was 144, or a smidgen over 20 a match. Goran also holds the record of most aces served in a calender year...

Becker reckons that Ivanisevic was better than Pete, given the amout of beatings Pete gave him, I'll take him at his word

I'm with Murdoch on this (sorry kingraf).

Goran's serve was sometimes as likely to lose him a match as it was to win it for him. Yes it was unbelievable when on song. But Pete's was unbelievable AND consistent.

Taking it to extremes, it's a bit like saying Rosol's forehand is better than Roger's or Rafa's. Consistency plays a huge part, and for that reason Pete serve comfortably takes it for me. You could put your mortgage on it.

If we're building the perfect player he has to be consistent, no?

if you use Isner or Karlovics serve in my opinion that means your 'perfect player" is 6'9/6'10, because thats a strong reason why its so good. So that means you have to take the weakness of a 6'9 frame. Unless you can say John Isners serve and Novaks movement, then you would have one heck of an athlete. LeBron James style, but yeah thats my issue when someone says they wish they had Isner's serve because that means you would have to be 6'9, would Rafa wanna be 6'9? I dont think so

if a 6'8 player had Lebrons movement, it would get tough out there for anyone...

kingraf wrote:if a 6'8 player had Lebrons movement, it would get tough out there for anyone...

I think its not far from a reality, I think Jerzy Janowicz is the first of his kind. Next decade I think we will see a Jerzy Janowicz 2.0

For me it's Pete Sampras. His ace count was not as high as some contemparies but it was hard to pass him off the serve, at least in the 1990s, so there were many more unreturnables, hard to returns etc that won at lot of points. I think Ivanisevic had the better first serve but the second serve reliability just wasn't there, too many double faults, so for me Sampras overall was better.

Janowicz is Isner-esque when compared to James...

The best Serve is pretty tough since, as people have found out. A good serve is also determined by good mentality, to get the serve in at the right time, and to be able to vary it.
Id go for Pete too, he had maybe the best placement of anyone ive seen, first and second, and enough pop to get it past people. Its also the most beautiful action ive ever seen. Gorans was a more all or nothing, which made it less adaptable.

Karlovic's serve is all about his height, youd need to assume youre working with a 6,8 guy to use it

Im surprised that nobody thinks that Roddick deserves a mention. He held the record for some considerable time before Karlovic broke it... I think Raonic might be working on it too  

Here's the thing though - Petes second serve looked better because he had more of a game to protect it. Goran didnt... that will play a role in how each went about their serves

I shall put the names up of the nominees later on today and we can begin voting and discussing further. Keep the names on coming in.

Interesting quote from Johnny Mac in his Book "SERIOUS"

No 8 in his list of TOP TEN RECOMMENDATIONS FOR IMPROVING TENNIS IN THE 21ST CENTURY.

"The service line should be moved 3 to 6 inches closer to the net.
The serve has become far too important to tennis - especially at Wimbledon where the best fans in the world sit patiently through long rain delays, only to have to sit through boring serve-a-thons"

There a couple of players that I think deserve to be on the voting list. Pancho, Laver, Tanner, Philippoussis, Krajicek.

This may help as well.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/612431-pete-sampras-and-the-top-25-servers-in-the-history-of-mens-tennis/page/1

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/404736-the-10-best-servers-of-all-time

The book was published in 2002, so maybe written in 2000 or 2001. So maybe he would change his mind now.

Personally I wonder if the courts could be speeded up towards the back of the court, but slower inside the service line. That would allow some tampering without changing the very fabric of the game.

"Men's Tennis: The Greatest Servers of All Time:- "

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1252930-mens-tennis-the-greatest-servers-of-all-time