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PGA Tour: Overnight Sensation, By The Grace Of god?: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer Wed 23 Oct 2013, 3:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).The PGA Tour season is only two weeks' old and already we have our first overnight sensation - at least in the eyes of America's golfing press: Chesson Hadley, a lad with a really silly name and an apparent obligation to praise the lord at every opportunity. But his last year has seen more twists and turns than an alpine road full of hairpins.

2).First, let's look at the basics:
Born in Raleigh, North Carolina, grew up playing Junior Golf with Webb Simpson, among others.
Attended University golfing powerhouse, Georgia Tech, in Atlanta. (Mize, Cink, Kuchar, etc, etc.)
Qualified for web.com action via 2012 Q-School.
Won Rex Hospital Open on last season's web.com Tour and then won the WTF Championship.
Debuts on PGA Tour at 2013/2014 Frys Open.

3).But let's have a closer look at these past 13 months:
Rewind to Q-School Stage 1 in 2012.
After officially missing out on advancing from Stage 1 to Stage 2 by one shot, Hadley's Tour aspirations are over for the year. Until:
Blayne Barber realises that a one-stroke penalty he applied on himself for believing he disturbed a leaf on his backswing (even his caddie said he never saw movement) should have been a two-shot penalty. Normally this wouldn't have made any difference as Barber's score was well within the cut line for advancing to Stage 2.
Except that retrospective application of the penalty meant he had effectively signed for the wrong score and was disqualified. (Fred Ridley please note.)

4).Why does this matter?
Of the six golfers who moved up from T19 to T18, Chesson Hadley, church deacon and avid consumer of the right-wing Drudge Report was one - Walker Cup winner (holed the winning putt at RCD) and sometime E.T. player Jonathan Moore was another, Dutchmen Derksen and Lafeber were two others.
From that unpromising, then fortuitous start Hadley qualified via Stage 2 to Stage 3 and his web.com card.

5).And then:
After making steady progress up the web.com leaderboards he comes to the "Rex Hospital Open" in his hometown of Raleigh and wins the thing. Not just any old home win, but in the event sponsored for Rex Hospital . . . . . where he was born.
The rest is history - 3rd on the web.com moneylist was followed by his Tour Championship win and resultant high seeding for priority entry in to early season, pre-reshuffle events. And after two of them, and playing in Sunday's final group with fellow praisethelorder Simpson, he's already 25% of the way to a 2014/2015 Tour card.

Perhaps their god is the real thing after all?
Regardless, you just know the PGA Tour laps up stories like these.

6).Meanwhile, good news and bad news for Russell Knox:
Good news: Two respectable finishes at the Frys (26th) and Las Vegas (30th), despite stubbing his toe last Sunday. And now in decent position to improve his priority status at the turn-of-the-year reshuffling.

Bad news: At these two events in 2012 he finished 8th and 13th respectively.
With the Tour going to Asia, a rest may do young Russell good, and hopefully he'll improve on his 2012 27th position at the McGladreys and 30th place at Mayakoba. In which case, the new seasonal format will have worked out quite nicely for him.

7).Webb Simpson looked impressive in Las Vegas and it appears he'll celebrate at home rather than follow the circus to Kuala Lumpur and Shanghai - expect to see him return at the McGladreys where he threw away the chance to win in a 2011 play-off against Crane.

8).No strong feelings about tomorrow's "CIMB Classic"; there's a fair-to-middling field assembled the old-fashioned way, by appearance money.
Last year's last-place finisher Scott Hend took home $40K; with an enlarged (engorged sounds more appropriate) field from 48 to 78 golfers, there's no cut and everyone is guaranteed FedEx points or, for real stragglers, fractions thereof.
Not my favourite type of tournament but at least Messrs Davis, Laird and Lynn are aboard the gravy train - Davis and Laird have prospered in Malaysia in past years, and it's a shrewd move for David Lynn to play.
Other Europeans include Garcia, Blixt and Lingmerth.

9).The final "regular season" event on the Champions Tour starts Friday outside San Antonio.
Still in question entering this tournament is exemption for 2014. Top 30 moneywinners will be fully exempt, but Langer (1st) is the only European certain of his ticket. Positions 31 - 50 will have conditional status, which means last year's surprise package Roger Chapman is in a precarious spot at #46 and no recent form to speak of as he heads to Texas. Forsbrand has been on fire recently and is up to #52, while Barry Lane is 66th and Mouland 71st.
Montgomerie and Lyle are automatically exempt as WGHOF'ers which, given their play, is ridiculous. Lyle has scratched around with an apparently straight face for too long, and Monty seems to be on a year-long busman's holiday.

10).More from Nick Price regarding the Presidents Cup:
He told Global Golf Post that he'd love to captain the Internationals again but would be reluctant to do so under the present format. In particular he wants to change the number of "Points" to be contested from 34 to 28, a la Ryder Cup - it's not hiding players, he says, it's about putting our leading players forward.
He also has a bit of a dig:
"Nobody wants to sit out here. It's like American sport, 'Everyone tried hard so let's give everyone a trophy.' That's not what sport is about."
What he's really doing is to challenge Finchem's concept of organizing a competition, choosing the Captains and Teams, setting the Rules, picking the venues and setting the ground rules too.

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Post by Lairdy Fri 25 Oct 2013, 1:36 pm

Is Guthrie the rookie that was dueling with Russell Henley in Hawaii at the start of the year? Quite liked the look of him back then.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 25 Oct 2013, 1:44 pm

Don't think so Lairdy, that was Scott Langley who hasn't really been heard from since.
He and Guthrie went to the same Uni though . . . . . !

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 25 Oct 2013, 2:58 pm

They're underway now in the San Antonio Champions Tour event and Jose Coceres makes his debut. Would think he's in on a sponsors' invite but hopefully he can earn some exempt status and, health permitting, he might do quite well.

Anders Forsbrand helped open the batting today and he probably needs a top 15 finish to reach the Top 50 and have some conditional status for 2014 - but this is strictly a priority system so he really needs as high a finish as he can get, podium places would solve a lot of problems for him.

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Post by Shotrock Fri 25 Oct 2013, 3:30 pm

Kwin - I think you're being a bit dismissive of your anti-US/Tim stance and I absolutely recall you pointed to the US economy as either one of or the primary reason why the ET was flailing.

Either way, it is what it is ... and what it's not is what Chubby so boldly predicted just a few years ago. I think it was this year or next that the Asian tour, or events run in Asia, were going to take the top spot. As is so typical for the Eurocentric, he specifically pointed out "what Americans don't get ...". Yea, Chubby, we don't get it. And guess what, nobody else does either.

Still waiting for the Daly implosion.

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Post by kwinigolfer Fri 25 Oct 2013, 3:59 pm

Let's hope Daly doesn't implode, his career has had 200 lives and counting, so it's about time he made use of a last chance.

I'm sure I said the ripple effect for the economic meltdown had affected European economies, of course they did. And that has had a spill on in countries, especially Espana, which held several tournaments. Undeniably so.

But I have also said that you CAN'T blame the US on that, tennis thrives where golf flounders, so does football, F1 and flagship events like the TDF and Olympics.
Clearly Finchem has got away with the economic downturn in the US, admittedly with ne'er-do-wells like Bobby Ginn and Allan Stanford helping him, but also by subsidising events when necessary - brilliant.
So: I have questioned why O'Grady hasn't dipped in to the E.T. profits, from Ryder Cup for instance, and funded some events which floundered.
Don't really think that's the same thing as blaming the US economy, it's an attempt at making constructive comparisons. Unfortunately the European multinationals, for whatever reason, invest in the US Tour or in E.T. events in Asia . . . . . or Bulgaria.
Wrong-headed, thick-headed policiy by O'Grady, and certainly not helped by relinquishing WGC's.

As Alan Shipnuck said last week:
"There are already tournaments with 'World' in the title. These need to get the hell out of Tucson and Akron and become the global events that were promised." Quite.
(And fully accept that the non-US Golf Federations were/are wrong to let the PGA Tour have their way on this.)

Will also go further and say that current European Tour policies (like this Finals series) will splinter the E.T. and be detrimental to any further Ryder Cup success.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 26 Oct 2013, 12:30 am

Strong field for the WGC - HSBC Champions event, but clearly not as strong as it should be.
Among those qualified but choosing to be non-runners are these ten:
Woods
Scott
Stricker
Kuchar
ZJohnson
Furyk
Day
Simpson
Schwartzel
Mahan
etc, etc.

And Joel Sjoholm won't be there. Along with Rhys Davies, who qualified comfortably, the fat Swede was the leading European to contest web.com Q-School Stage 1. After opening with a 67, Sjoholm struggled in Rounds 2,3 and 4 and presumably has a date at E.T. Q-School. Or Weight Watchers.

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Post by navyblueshorts Sat 26 Oct 2013, 1:28 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Strong field for the WGC - HSBC Champions event, but clearly not as strong as it should be.
Among those qualified but choosing to be non-runners are these ten:
Woods
Scott
Stricker
Kuchar
ZJohnson
Furyk
Day
Simpson
Schwartzel
Mahan
etc, etc....
Which, I think, tells us all we need to know about the supposed importance of these, so-called, WGCs. Only Woods really seems to place any importance on them (judging by his record) and even he doesn't give a fig for this one it would seem. They're just another event which someone, rather egotistically, decided to prefix with the word 'World'.
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Post by kwinigolfer Sat 26 Oct 2013, 1:49 pm

Very disappointing, nbs, I'm sure there'd be questions in the House if so many Europeans boycotted a US-based WGC, but we won't go there . . . . .

Sr will be happy that Daly obliged with some very crooked numbers, but so did Keegan Bradley and Martin Laird.

What do people make of Simon Dyson's dq? Sounds like he transgressed and then someone shopped him. Playing with Pablito and Craig Lee. Bad time for Terry's nephew regardless.

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Post by Shotrock Sat 26 Oct 2013, 3:18 pm

Daly as predicted.

Watched some of the golf this morning and can't help but feel Rory's due for a breakout mighty soon.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 12:26 am

Five tied for the lead at the AT&T Champo event outside San Antonio, four veterans of the 2004 Ryder Cup:
Langer, Captain
Forsbrand, Vice Captain
Montgomerie, holed the winning putt
Perry, Defeated.
And then there's Mike Goodes who shot a 63 today.

Lots on the line for various reasons, most of them financial, but for Forsbrand a win would be career-redefining; he currently lies outside the Top 50 who have some sort of exemption for 2014 and a Top 15 would get him inside, a win would earn him a full exemption for 2014.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 12:31 pm

Pathetic final rpound scores in Malaysia for GB contingent. Davis, Laird and Lynn shot a combined 19-over-par while making a right mess of their tournament (tho' Davis was a back-marker after Round 3).
Laird and Lynn especially may rue their back nine indifference later this year.
Also: Don't see Laird in the runners and riders for Shanghai next week; difficult to believe and, on the face of it anyway, pretty stupid not to compete.

Nice to see Gonzo win though, so he'll presumably be there, having won his 3rd BMW tournament!


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Post by robopz Sun 27 Oct 2013, 1:15 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
Wrong-headed, thick-headed policiy by O'Grady, and certainly not helped by relinquishing WGC's.

As Alan Shipnuck said last week:
"There are already tournaments with 'World' in the title. These need to get the hell out of Tucson and Akron and become the global events that were promised." Quite.
(And fully accept that the non-US Golf Federations were/are wrong to let the PGA Tour have their way on this.).
Not sure O'Grady is to be blamed for "relinquishing WGC's... and IMO Shipnuck misses the point on this one as well.

IMO there is one absolute truth to the financial underpinnings of any golf tournament... the sponsor MUST feel he's getting value for his sponsorship dollar. I'm betting Accenture didn't feel it was getting it when the WGC Match Play was played in Australia... and I KNOW AMEX had warned they were out if the WGC-AMEX were to continue to alternate to Europe. IFPGAT wouldn't consider it, so Amex was gone... and what happened? For CA to take the event, a provision was it would be played in the U.S.... so they could have kept AMEX after all.

And then we had the new WGC that was supposed to happen in South Africa... and from what I read, it appears as though that event fell apart for the same reason... Who wanted to sponsor an $8-9 million dollar event with no assurance the top stars would appear? And considering the time issue with the U.S... the largest potential rights fee market was devalued.

IMO the FIRST order of business in conducting a successful WGC outside the U.S. is it HAS to attract ALL the top players to attract a sponsor unless you can find an HSBC like sponsor that would be willing to pay anything to have the event for "other" business reasons. So getting the full time PGAT guys to participate is essential... and IMO that's gonna be the hard part with the way the PGAT schedule sets up.

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Post by robopz Sun 27 Oct 2013, 1:20 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Which, I think, tells us all we need to know about the supposed importance of these, so-called, WGCs. Only Woods really seems to place any importance on them (judging by his record) and even he doesn't give a fig for this one it would seem. They're just another event which someone, rather egotistically, decided to prefix with the word 'World'.
No... I think it tells us the level of importance players place on this PARTICULAR WGC... It seems to me, based on the extraordinary participation rate of the top players in the other three... WGC's are highly valued. But the way the HSBC is structured... even with better PGAT participation, it's probably going to be something like the 10th - 12th highest OWGR point event on the PGAT schedule. That makes it a tough sell for PGAT guys to disrupt their "wind-down" Oct-Dec period with a trip to China.

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Post by GPB Sun 27 Oct 2013, 1:35 pm

Great win for Gonzo.  Does this win get him into HSBC?  It puts him great position for his first Ryder Cup.

Indifferent finishes from the Euro Ryder Cup Stars in China.  Westy, IJP, Luke, Rory, GMac all finished well back and if they will really be under the gun if they continue to play badly.  There aren't that many Captains picks available!

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 1:43 pm

robo,
Understand completely what your saying, straight out of the Gospel according to Saint Shotrock.
Doesn't make it equitable though, and top players sticking two fingers up to "abroad" probably suits the PGA Tour just fine - there'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy, especially if leading players boycott the HSBC but play "Turkey" and/or the Robin Hood action at Sherwood. Which makes a bit of a nonsense out of the "wind down period".
 
All good rhetorical stuff - the ROTW and the US certain to be divided on this.

GPB, I believe Gonzo gets to go to Shanghai. Yup, very poor for Europe's best, but a nice result for Franny M.

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Post by GPB Sun 27 Oct 2013, 1:49 pm

The problem with guaranteed official money in WGC Tournaments.

Rory is #62 in the RtD.  and needs to get into the top 60 to defend his title in Dubai. 

He is guaranteed about 40,000 Euro this week which is more than enough to move him past #53, #54, #55, #56, #58, and #60 in the standings and are not in the HSBC field.

Exactly how many of the Top 60 players in the Standings are going to be eligible to play Dubai in this farce of 2 out 3 qualifier?

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Post by Shotrock Sun 27 Oct 2013, 2:21 pm

Robo - Agree with that (and thanks for the designation Kwin!). Also, I don't think the US players are making any sort of "American" statement (conspiracy theories make for great reading, however) ... simply working professionals weighing the opportunity cost v personal time. Again, these are mercenary professionals first and foremost.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 2:25 pm

GPB,
I know the point you're making but HSBC is no different whatsoever from Tucson, Doral or Akron.
Same applied up until this year to PGA Tour moneylist.

Sr,
Not a "conspiracy" theory, just fitting an unfortunate stereotype in many observers' minds. Thank goodness my children love to travel "international"!






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Post by GPB Sun 27 Oct 2013, 2:33 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:GPB,
I know the point you're making but HSBC is no different whatsoever from Tucson, Doral or Akron.
Same applied up until this year to PGA Tour moneylist.


I made a similar analogy with Zach Johnson earlier this year. and it was relevant with Zach until he turned on the after-burners in the summer.  Remember the Zach Johnson watch?

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 2:35 pm

PS: "Isn't it ironic"?, as Alanis would warble, that the very same lobby who testify to the status of WGC wins, and how much they mean to the players, is the same as says, basically, tough tittie about golfers giving Shanghai a miss?
 
Which are the prestigious WGC's then, the American trio presumably?

Indeed GPB! How's de Jonge doing in the Sagarins?!!?

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Post by robopz Sun 27 Oct 2013, 5:07 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Understand completely what your saying, straight out of the Gospel according to Saint Shotrock.
Doesn't make it equitable though, and top players sticking two fingers up to "abroad" probably suits the PGA Tour just fine - there'll be a self-fulfilling prophecy, especially if leading players boycott the HSBC but play "Turkey" and/or the Robin Hood action at Sherwood. Which makes a bit of a nonsense out of the "wind down period".
I don't think you can equate what Tiger does for massive appearances fees with his international trips and a relaxing pampered week a Sherwood to what it takes for a lot of these other full time PGAT players to make a trip half way around the world.

I wouldn't think a top player would want to go to China for just one event. If they're going to go, they'd probably want to take in at least two to make it worth their while. With prep and travel on either end of a two week international trip it's probably closer to a 2 1/2 to 3 week commitment. But if they stay in the States... fly to LA on a Tuesday night, and home on Sunday night... easy peazie... nice and easy. Or heck... even a relaxing week in Sea Island... or a 3-4 hour flight to Cancun with the family.

Bottom line... IMO we're going to see some initial resistance from some top players doing much after the Ryder/Presidents Cups through the first of the year. But, IMO after a while many of them will realize just how much behind the 8-ball they put themselves if they don't consider some big money, big point events in Oct-Dec. I haven't done an exact comparison, but isn't the HSBC already getting H better representation from PGAT guys this year? (wasn't it something like 12-13 skipped last year?)... And my guess is it'll get even a little better PGAT representation next year... and maybe a little better after that.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 5:17 pm

robo,
No doubt that's a point of view, but as I quoted Alanis, "Isn't it ironic?".
The top European Tour players usually turn up in Shanghai, that's why they usually win it - tho' believe Rory avoided it last year.


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Post by robopz Sun 27 Oct 2013, 5:35 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
No doubt that's a point of view, but as I quoted Alanis, "Isn't it ironic?".
The top European Tour players usually turn up in Shanghai, that's why they usually win it - tho' believe Rory avoided it last year.
I get where you're coming from, but don't you think it's and entirely different set of circumstances and priorities for the Euro players, Race to Dubai and all? And for the many other of the world's HSBC qualified international players, it's an opportunity to play in a big money event; something many of them rarely get to do.   But the full time PGAT guys are playing in relatively high-point, high money events most every week they play... different set of priorities.

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Post by Shotrock Sun 27 Oct 2013, 6:16 pm

Kwin - The "stereotypes" are, from my observation, generally for the lazy, feeble-minded living-in-the-past types. Plenty of that around.

As Robo articulates, there's a lot to weigh for the touring professional at this time of year.


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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 6:39 pm

Guys, You can't have it both ways.

Personally I'd like to see two WGC's, one Match-Play, and one "Champions" event bringing together tournament winners from around the World, and to hell with owgr points. One to be held in the USA, one internationally.

Doral and Akron totally redundant.

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Post by GPB Sun 27 Oct 2013, 6:41 pm

PGAT players have Tournaments with 5-6 Million dollar purses every week.

There are not 1.5 Million Euro purses littered throughout the season like in Europe.

Of course the HSBC is not going to as well as attended by American pros as Eurotour pros.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 6:48 pm

I give up.


Montgomerie leading in San Antonio; he'll be insufferable if he wins with the American broadcasters making the mistake of sticking a microphone under his nose (resting snugly on his bosoooooms) and never getting it back. Forsbrand and Langer tied with Triplett for second. Should be entertaining . . . . .

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Post by Shotrock Sun 27 Oct 2013, 7:13 pm

GPB - Exactly ... It's really pretty straightforward ...

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 7:24 pm

But Sr, you can't talk about the "prestige", your word I think, of the WGC's without noting the irony of all this. Can you?

You rabbit on about the "World" not having sponsors to compare with those in the USA and then, when someone stumps up the cash, you defend golfers for not playing for those very sponsors who are doing what you consider necessary.

So:
When should World actually come to mean World?
Or is World still syonymous with the Good Old USA??

PS: Enjoying the World Series very much, thank you! Loved the end to last night's game.


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Post by GPB Sun 27 Oct 2013, 7:46 pm

I am rooting for Monty!!  I think he will be an asset to the Geritol Gang.

I often wonder why people get so hung up on words.  People get hung on the Fedex Playoffs because in the context of the FE Cup, playoffs doesn't fit their definition of Playoffs as in NBA playoffs and Stanley Cup Playoffs.

It is just a word!

Lots of angst about the PGA Championship possibly going international, and they got hung up on PGA of America.  It is just a word.  I don't think it should go outside the USA but not because of the word America.

And the "WORLD" is just a word in the WGCs.  It means that World players are invited, not where they are played.

Yes it would be nice if they were distributed all over the globe, but practically that is not getting down.  Show Me the Money!!

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Post by Shotrock Sun 27 Oct 2013, 8:11 pm

Kwin -- call it whatever you want but one thing is quite obvious ... They are NOT making it attractive enough.

Great series thus far!

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 8:32 pm

Their loss, Sr. F... 'em. You are the prosecution's best witness!


Would prefer to see this come down to Langer and Perry, two best players this year.
Interesting to hear BR yukking it up with Montgomerie yesterday that they first met in college (different colleges - U of H & Houston B? - tho' I would think) in Houston in 1981. Both been eating pies ever since.




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Post by GPB Sun 27 Oct 2013, 8:44 pm

Surprised that anyone on this site would like Bernhard "Godbotherer" Langer.

I guess it is only Americans who like Jesus that bothers them.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 9:25 pm

History tells us that German gods have done even less good than most others'.

Great admirer of Langer . . . . . . I don't care what people believe in, just don't ram it down the public throat, and Langer doesn't.

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Post by kwinigolfer Sun 27 Oct 2013, 10:51 pm

Another $14K or so in the coffers of Lipscomb University, as Kenny Perry wins on the Champo Tour.
Regardless of the religious sympathies of Lipscomb, the donation of 5% of Perry's Tour winnings - all of them, about $35M to date - to Lipscomb has got to be one of the best sponsor investments, and one of the very best stories of recent times.
That was one of the conditions of Perry's primary sponsor in his mini-Tour days (and there were a lot of them) and always pleased to see the gift that keeps on giving.

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Post by Shotrock Mon 28 Oct 2013, 12:49 am

Of course it's their loss Kwin ... you can't win or earn what you don't play in.

I just don't see the never-ending, American evil empire conspiracy theory in everything ...


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Post by McLaren Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:07 am

Kwini

I dont understand why you think all tournaments with WGC in their name need to have the same level of "prestige" applied?

It is clear to me that the Doral and Akron events are two of the strongest strokeplay events of the year, regardless of who does or does not turn up for the HSBC champions. Loose the fixation with the WGC tag and value each event based on its own merits and it is clear that the WGC's offer two events with fields stronger than at least one of the majors twice a year.

Not sure if I care what country they are in at all, its not like I would get to see them battle it out on an interesting course if they were held in the UK for example. Doral is probably no worse than the bore fest of a course the European tour would provide.

When you say you would like to see a WGC outside the US, in ideal circumstances what would that look like? (I am assuming you realise the HCBC is a dud and going nowhere, for obvious reasons) And what benefits would it bring golf or wider society?

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Post by McLaren Mon 28 Oct 2013, 4:41 am

I am watching the Tiger v Rory match and while walking up the first tee they were chatting about how slow Harrington is.

Rory started "i was playing with harrington yesterday...."

Tiger jumps in with something like "ooh"

They continue to bash him and then keegan for being slow.
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Post by McLaren Mon 28 Oct 2013, 4:44 am

For those of a nervous disposition I recommend you tune out.

Tiger as already dropped a few swears in.  He can apparently "rip the Poopie" out of his one handed left handed back hand.
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Post by McLaren Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:26 am

Rory now bitching about the european tours ability to set up a course.
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Post by hend085 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:59 am

Monty must be cursing a golden opportunity. 5 birdies in first 6 holes and then played last 12 in +2 to lose by 2

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:18 am

Further to Mac's comments about Rory and Tiger making snarky remarks about pace of play of Harrington and Bradley, Montgomerie definitely grew impatient at Langer's pace of play.
He made one comment on Saturday about him taking five minutes over a shot, and then seemed to play out of turn at least once yesterday. The best players usually take as long as they want, from the very, very quick to the deathly slow, and it was surprising that Montgomerie seemed to allow himself to get affected in this way.

A nice story about Forsbrand gaining some conditional exemption though, his results over the past two months have been terrific: Nothing in the Top 30 in his Champions Tour career, then T4, followed a little later by T5, T6 and T6 yesterday. That won't get him in to every event, but it's a good start, almost as if he has re-learned how to compete.

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Post by MontysMerkin Mon 28 Oct 2013, 1:01 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:, and it was surprising that Montgomerie seemed to allow himself to get affected in this way.


Not sure about that Kwini, I heard Monty once went berserk at a butterfly flapping it's wings in the next county!
Not sure if you would have seen the KitKat ad stateside? Someone breaks the biccy as he's putting and he goes mental. Self deprecating (for the right price)
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Post by super_realist Mon 28 Oct 2013, 1:11 pm

I made Monty have a bad shot once. Duck hook.

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 28 Oct 2013, 1:46 pm

Very Happy 
I fear Montgomerie ads are the next rung down the ladder for us Monty. (Self-deprecating humour not an American staple though . . . . )

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Post by robopz Mon 28 Oct 2013, 1:54 pm

HSBC-WGC Question...   Does anybody know how Mikko Ilonen gained entry into the HSBC field?   He doesn't appear anywhere on the HSBC "Qualifier" list at  http://www.hsbcgolf.com/who-is-qualifying

Also... As I was trying to go through the qualifications to figure out Ilonen... I noticed that the AT&T National wasn't an HSBC qualifying event.  The Category 3 PGA Tour portion of the HSBC qualifications are supposedly based on the 20 highest OWGR rated events by Event Rating Values from the prior year (2012).  But in 2012 the AT&T rated out higher than the AT&T Pebble Beach, Humana or Travelers, all three which are listed events are included.    

So what gives?  Was this just an oversight by the HSBC?   Seems odd that it would be... so it gets me to wondering if this might be at least a partial explanation to TW's absence at this year's HSBC?  Granted he hasn't played it since 2010, but it sure seemed to make a lot more sense on his schedule this year being "newly official" and all.   Also of note... maybe... the last 2 years played in the HSBC Abu Dhabi...  But next year Tiger is passing on Abu Dhabi and playing the Omega Dubai Desert Classic instead (which I also found odd as TW is a Rolex guy now).   Also... Seems like I remember HSBC logos used to be fairly prominent on the Tiger Woods Foundation website as some kind of top level sponsor (I could be wrong on that, but I feel fairly certain that was the case at one time).   But now the only place I see HSBC listed is as a Founding Partner of the foundations Orange County Learning Center.  But they have several other founding partners on that list that I know are no longer involved... so could be HSBC is still on the list from past contributions.

Maybe this HSBC-Tiger thing is simply a matter of reading something out of nothing... or maybe not... I really don't have a clue.

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Post by super_realist Mon 28 Oct 2013, 2:07 pm

robopz wrote:HSBC-WGC Question...   Does anybody know how Mikko Ilonen gained entry into the HSBC field?   He doesn't appear anywhere on the HSBC "Qualifier" list at  http://www.hsbcgolf.com/who-is-qualifying

Also... As I was trying to go through the qualifications to figure out Ilonen... I noticed that the AT&T National wasn't an HSBC qualifying event.  The Category 3 PGA Tour portion of the HSBC qualifications are supposedly based on the highest 20 OWGR rated events by Event Rating Values from the prior year (2012).  But in 2012 the AT&T rated out higher than the AT&T Pebble Beach, Humana or Travelers, all three which are listed events are included.    

So what gives?  Was this just an oversight by the HSBC?   Seems odd that it would be... so it gets me to wondering if this might be at least a partial explanation to TW's absence at this year's HSBC?  Granted he hasn't played it since 2010, but it sure seemed to make a lot more sense on his schedule this year being "newly official" and all.   Also of note... maybe... the last 2 years played in the HSBC Abu Dhabi...  But next year Tiger is passing on Abu Dhabi and playing the Omega Dubai Desert Classic instead (which I also found odd as TW is a Rolex guy now).   Also... Seems like I remember HSBC logos used to be fairly prominent on the Tiger Woods Foundation website as some kind of top level sponsor (I could be wrong on that, but I feel fairly certain that was the case at one time).   But now the only place I see HSBC listed is as a Founding Partner of the foundations Orange County Learning Center.  But they have several other founding partners on that list that I know are no longer involved... so could be HSBC is still on the list from past contributions.

Maybe this HSBC-Tiger thing is simply a matter of reading something out of nothing... or maybe not... I really don't have a clue.
Fits in with his lack of taste and style.

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Post by GPB Mon 28 Oct 2013, 2:35 pm

McClaren wrote:it is clear that the WGC's offer two events with fields stronger than at least one of the majors twice a year.
What players are invited to a WGC event that makes it stronger field that the majors do not invite?

OWGR SoF ranking for 

Accenture: 761
Cadillac 762
B-Stone: 768

Masters: 791
US Open: 838
OpenC: 878
PGA: 915

Just because the Masters invites some past champions to the field, does not mean the field gets worse.  It is just an additional player.


Last edited by GPB on Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:18 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : clarity)

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Post by kwinigolfer Mon 28 Oct 2013, 2:40 pm

robo,
Haven't looked at that data, but did the 2013 AT&T Champ, Bill Haas, have a higher exemption? Like Top 50?? Only explanation I can think of.

Ilonen won the Nordea Masters but I imagine you're suggesting that (28 pts to the winner) would not normally be enough to qualify. (Also 2nd in China Open - again not sure if that earns him an ONE money free pass?) Only explanations I can think of.
Can't imagine why Patrick Reed doesn't qualify with the Wyndham being worth 44 pts Makes no sense..


Yup, I had thought the same thing about HSBC, wouldn't be at all surprised.

And here's Tiger on Chamblee:

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/associated-press/woods-responds-to-chamblee-criticism-apology/

As the article suggests, it's not clear what it's all got to do with the Golf Channel but that's for them to sort out.


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Post by GPB Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:01 pm

Robo:

HSBC gave Tiger a huge appearance fee for playing Abu Dhabi. 

Obviously I don't know what was in those contracts, but I think it is more than playing a Wednesday pro-am, and the tournament.

I think there are clinics, schmoozing with sponsors at Meet and Greets and if the player misses the cut, possibly a clinic on Saturday or a sponsors party on Friday or Saturday night

Since Tiger missed the cut, I imagine that he got on Air Tiger ASAP and took off to San Diego.

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