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NZ v Japan

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kiakahaaotearoa
Duty281
yappysnap
ebop
hugehandoff
beardybrain
jimmyinthewell68
GloriousEmpire
nganboy
doctor_grey
LeinsterFan4life
Taylorman
aucklandlaurie
emack2
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Post by emack2 Wed 30 Oct 2013, 7:33 pm

Is there TV coverage of this Match cannot see it in the TV Guide

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Post by aucklandlaurie Wed 30 Oct 2013, 8:06 pm

Sorry Allen dont know if it would be telecast in the UK.

But heres the ABs team;

15. Beauden Barrett,
14. Frank Halai,
13. B.Smith,
12. Francis Saili,
11. Charles Piutau,
10. Carter,
9. Tawera Kerr-barlow,
8. McCaw,(C),
7. Cane,
6. Luatua,
5. Dominic Bird,
4. Jeremy Thrush,
3. B.Franks,
2. Coles,
1. Crockett.

Bench:
Hore, Jeffrey Toomaga-Allen, Faumuina, Retallick, Luke Whitelock, A.Smith, Ryan Crotty.

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Post by Taylorman Wed 30 Oct 2013, 8:20 pm

They televised the Oz match live on You tube- is that a one off or are we going to see more of it?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Wed 30 Oct 2013, 9:01 pm

If Japan can stay within 20 points they will be doing very well.

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 30 Oct 2013, 11:47 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:If Japan can stay within 20 points they will be doing very well.
I think they will be lucky to stay within 40. I still remember that match from the 1999 RWC. Truly awful.

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Post by nganboy Thu 31 Oct 2013, 2:10 am

There's an ad on the ABs website that says the game will be streamed for free.
http://www.allblacks.com/news/23739/All-Blacks-Japan-Test-to-be-streamed-online-internationally

There's been more than one team that has lost to the ABs by more than 40 point margin.
2012 Ireland got one special spanking
2011 it was Japan, Canada and Fiji turn
2010 it was Scotland and Ireland
2008 it was Samoa
and of course in 2007 France, Italy, Scotland, Portugal and Romania were all provided a lesson before the blxxdy French did a France on us.
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Post by emack2 Thu 31 Oct 2013, 2:51 am

The team picked would have been labelled an ALL BLACKS XV in days past only Carter and
McCaw were first team regulars until recently.

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Post by Taylorman Thu 31 Oct 2013, 5:45 am

Locks look a little flighty...bird and thrush.
Only two players from the 2011 world cup.


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Post by GloriousEmpire Thu 31 Oct 2013, 8:25 am

Is it going to be live streamed on youtube again? The last Bledisloe was "for the first time in history" so it seems like the All Blacks channel might be a regular occurrence.

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Post by Taylorman Fri 01 Nov 2013, 7:36 am

That time of the year again to get the rugby channel with all the non AB matches only played live there. 20+matches not bad for a few bucks I suppose...

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Post by jimmyinthewell68 Fri 01 Nov 2013, 8:07 am

you got to watch out for Japan , they beat Wales 3rd team Cool 

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Post by GloriousEmpire Fri 01 Nov 2013, 8:41 am

Taylorman wrote:That time of the year again to get the rugby channel with all the non AB matches only played live there. 20+matches not bad for a few bucks I suppose...
Lucky b.stard here in the third world I have to wait until November 17 to get any tv connected at all. Due to the generous incompetence of Brit service providers.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 01 Nov 2013, 4:17 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Taylorman wrote:That time of the year again to get the rugby channel with all the non AB matches only played live there. 20+matches not bad for a few bucks I suppose...
Lucky b.stard here in the third world I have to wait until November 17 to get any tv connected at all. Due to the generous incompetence of Brit service providers.
Methinks they know ye, and want to punish ye for your truculent views.  Why not surrender?  The French do it.......

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Post by Taylorman Fri 01 Nov 2013, 6:38 pm

All we really dont get is 7's, overseas club and the overseas AI's which are all on rugby channel so I just get it for the AI's. Probably the currie cup I miss most. 6Ns are always on ESPN. ooh... Kiwis playing France in the League now...

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Post by beardybrain Fri 01 Nov 2013, 8:37 pm

It's being streamed by All Blacks here http://www.allblacks.com/allblackstv

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Post by Taylorman Fri 01 Nov 2013, 9:49 pm

The ability to field a side confident of winning that has only two players from the 2011 winning side is comforting and is continuing to provide a dilemma for the coaching establishment. Next year we have Kaino and Mils returning to super rugby, Benji Marshall from league and SBW arrives back in 2015.

So in Wcup year some positions:

6: Kaino, Messam, Luatua
7: McCaw, Cane and perhaps a rapidly improving A Savea
9: Aaron Smith, Kerr Barlow and Perenara
10: Carter, Cruden, Taylor and Barrett
12: Nonu, Saili and SBW (poss Benji if he adapts)
11, 13,14, 15: Any of Ben Smith, Corey jane, Conrad Smith, Savea, Dagg, Mils, Piatau, perhaps Halai
4/5: Retalick, Whitelock, Romano with Thrush and Bird in the wings...:-(

All potential squad members with only Mils probably on the outer. And this is only two years out.

Talk about congestion...

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat 02 Nov 2013, 2:23 am

Is it a case that NZ are the best side in the world AND the second best side in the world again?

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Post by hugehandoff Sat 02 Nov 2013, 2:40 am

Come on Japan! Fingers Crossed 

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Post by hugehandoff Sat 02 Nov 2013, 6:07 am

28-6 to All Blacks in 48th minute........floodgates could open?

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 02 Nov 2013, 6:20 am

20 minutes left and Japan is behind by 34. All Blacks dominating every facet of play.
Victory for Japan would be scoring a try.
I really don't like matches like this. They add nothing.
Hoping Japan gets their score.

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Post by ebop Sat 02 Nov 2013, 6:33 am

Just cracked the 50
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Post by doctor_grey Sat 02 Nov 2013, 6:44 am

Shame. Was hoping Japan would get that try at the end. Not sure why Japan took those penalties standing still. But still, good effort by Japan to keep it as close as it was.

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Post by yappysnap Sat 02 Nov 2013, 8:30 am

Puts Wales loss in to perspective

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Post by Duty281 Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:11 am

That's given Wales a lesson...in how to beat Japan!

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:18 am

That was a very disappointing performance by NZ. Hansen was asked what score he wanted to win by and he rightly said it didn't matter how many the team scored, it was putting in a performance they could be proud of that mattered.

Well unfortunately for many out there, that was not a performance to be proud of. Doesn't matter we reached 50, or that Japan's performance lifted at home. That wasn't good enough as an All Black performance. The tight five was largely woeful. To be outscrummed at times by Japan is unacceptable. Saili at 12 has had two performances and they have both been underwhelming. As has Ben Smith at 13. TKB just doesn't cut it for me. His service is too slow and he takes poor options. He put in a good grubber for Barrett's try but too many times he goes on solo runs down the blindside thinking he has the pace of van der Westhuizen and gets barrelled into touch or loses the ball as he's isolated. There is day and night between Aaron Smith and him and I sincerely hope we get a look at TJ on this tour instead of more TKB. Carter got through some game time and Barrett didn't offer much when he changed from fullback to flyhalf. The static ball from the pack had a lot to do with that.

There were a few players who put their hand up. Piutau looks a great prospect and I wonder if he could be tried at 13 instead of Ben Smith. Hansen wants to see Jane back in action but Ben Smith did no wrong at 14 and has looked off colour ever since the move to 13. Piutau adds that ability to break the line and his defence is solid. Hansen won't be panicking yet but I do wonder if he's thinking of other options at 13. Luatua is a great lineout option and is an impact sub.

With all those changes it was going to be a tough ask to gel as a unit. But I sincerely hope the team gets a dressing down for that performance. If they play against France, England or Ireland like that, they will surely lose. They lifted their intensity after a poor first quarter but it doesn't matter how many tries they scored thereafter. It's looking back on the performance and being able to say that was a good effort. Other than a very few players, most players today would not be able to say they had played well and regardless of the scoreline that is disappointing.

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Post by nganboy Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:28 am

Totally agree Kia. Of course many of those players wont start any of the next three games and the normal combinations will be resettled.
Saili was disappointing and the tight five just didn't get into their work.
A NZ A team that had spent some time together would have had a similar result.
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Post by Taylorman Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:45 am

I was thinking the same thing kia, especially through the second half where it actually started getting boring with the stops and starts. But I didn't expect a huge amount out of this. The reality is that its test rugby and besides having mostly new guys or first starts you're not going to get combinations going easily either.
Credit must go to japan who took it to the ABs for the whole match and player the in your face game that is always going to prevent continuity on our part.

I've always said it takes ages to learn the centre roll and smith is not immune to that. Piatau showed out but mainly because he got a little more room and chances to do so than most.

Not the best performance but perhaps enough factors present to not expect perfection or anything like it. Hansen will use any shortcomings as motivation for France and agree with tkb...he could be the victim of this tour. Never really liked his style.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:53 am

Definitely credit to Japan. It was good defence from NZ to hold them out at the end so that was pleasing they kept them tryless.

I agree that Hansen can use this as motivation for Paris. When they join up with the rest of the squad, he can point out that now the performance has to go up significantly because it needs to.

It's a tough ask for Ben Smith and no doubt this tour is in some ways a development tour in terms of progressing players in certain positions or giving them as much time as possible at this level. Saili has found out that test rugby is a step up and he hasn't looked composed. I'm looking forward to seeing our test front five in action and seeing where they are against the likes of England and France at scrum time. It's a shame we don't have a test against Wales in that regard but we do have the advantage of playing under the new scrum laws.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:59 am

Yes defence sure is our ace when things aren't going so well. We move on...c+ for the tour so far. Is it me or is McCaw starting to look like a spare wheel? Showing up in odd places doing odd things these days.

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Post by emack2 Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:00 am

Just a thought Coryjane to wing,B Smith to FB,Dagg at centre,or of course start Nonu there
he at least is comfortable there.Did`nt see it Planet Rugby said 2pm same time as England
game.Realistically it was just getting the recently injured some game time and a few new
faces a run out.Is Patrick Osborne? an option,is Benji Marshall Nz qualified the serious work
starts now.As to 9 Andy Ellis isn`t exactly rubbish certainly not on his ITM form still.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:06 am

Marshalls definitely eligible for the ABs. He's probably too late having past his best years in league even. Osbourne? Gosh...find of the itm...given a canes pos next year when looking for an actual job. Needs sxv Alan. Has had a stunning year with the makos though.

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Post by emack2 Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:07 am

Oh please not another McCaw is finished thread hasn't exactly played a lot this season and
not consistently as2012 when he was best in the World anywhere.He has already said IF
he thinks he`s a liability he`ll go.
Man there`s some very fickle fans out there Cane after a couple of performances who
can`t get a regular start for the Chiefs.The NH must be rubbing there hands in anticipation.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:15 am

Fickle or not Alan the question must be asked at some point. Unless you think players play forever. McCaw is showing signs of not making 2015 and unlike other sides the ABs are unforgiving in the selection stakes. McCaw won't get to decide when his time is up it never works that way.

Truth is this year we having missed him as a 7 or captain in the way we would have 2-3 years ago. Cane and Read are capable enough and will be stronger in two years...will McCaw?

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Post by emack2 Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:25 am

T/Man that is the question get him Match fit then ask that question he was written off after 2011 .You wouldn't have had that little gold pot in the cabinet without him,2012 he was a revelation.
This year pre injury not so dusty either and who cares about 2015 Arde Savea will be there in 2015.
One game at a time could also be a case for playing him at 6.

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Post by whocares Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:38 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

If they play against France, England or Ireland like that, they will surely lose.
Wow a bit harsh Kia! NZ even at that standart can easily outscore the above teams!

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:41 am

Like Carter though Tman, McCaw is coming back from injury. I don't think we're ready to discard either yet but the important thing is that we have in those positions alternatives coming through. We don't have that at 13 or 12 yet but just like Cane was not too convincing in his role initially he has grown into his role so there's still hope for Saili and Smith in that regard. It just requires time in the position at that level.

Strength in depth is often talked about but it just goes to show it's all very well to say we have these players who can step up but until they do and prove their worth you don't have depth.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 02 Nov 2013, 11:56 am

Nope...not ready to discard either. But the microscope will continue to be on both every match from here in and thats going to pressure them. Injuries look inevitable for them both to be able to maintain their high standards. 6 might be the pos for McCaw in two years but as an enforcer McCaw is not. But for now its just a question...plenty of time to shine in the sun once again.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 02 Nov 2013, 1:00 pm

They just need time after their injuries much like Saili and Smith need more time albeit for different reasons. They know they have players breathing down their necks and I'm sure that'll see a lift in their performance if they get enough games strung together.

Who cares I don't believe NZ will perform against the likes of France as they did against Japan but linguistically it'd be better to say if they performed like that they would lose as the calibre of opposition is much higher.

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Post by whocares Sat 02 Nov 2013, 1:10 pm

What I meant kia is that even if they were at times a bit suspect at scrum time, their attacking nous is still there and that's for me enough to beat the current France outfit although I think they should give a spirited fight.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 02 Nov 2013, 1:33 pm

The weather was disappointing today. We've had typhoons through Tokyo recently, so rain is by no means unknown, but the forecast had us down for a day like yesterday, which was bright and reached as high as 23 degrees.

I suspect better weather would have helped New Zealand more than Japan but it might have at least made for a more flowing game. Anyone watching would have noticed that the ground is mostly uncovered, so the persistent drizzle wasn't the best viewing environment.


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Post by Notch Sat 02 Nov 2013, 1:58 pm

Watched the first half, understand that Japan didn't score at all after the break so not going to bother with the second. Japan had a good 20 minutes in that game and then they just got taught a major lesson about how accurate you need to be in defence against a side like this, how low your error count needs to be and how hard it is to break down that organised a defence.

I think there are a massive number of positives for Japan going forward to the next RWC. They look more physical, they look organised (more organised in defence than attack it must be said), their set piece has improved immensely.

They haven't learnt to deal with the All Blacks, but New Zealand could easily put a score like that on a number of sides in the IRB Top 10 so no shame in it.

I think this game will be valuable for them in building to the next RWC and well done the NZRU for playing it- next you need to bring the All Blacks to Tonga or Samoa. Appreciate the political situation in Fiji remains influential with regards to traveling there.
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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 02 Nov 2013, 2:26 pm

That won't happen Notch as there would be no revenue from television or gate revenue. The NZRU will only play games that fill the coffers and the PI teams won't do that. Look at the sevens world champions in Russia and its the same reason NH teams don't tour there. You make a loss playing those games. Japan is an option purely from a financial point of view.

Who cares I see what you mean but it was still a substandard performance in the forwards and nothing should gloss over that.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 02 Nov 2013, 7:39 pm

Can we hand you GE back.

As a so called NZ fan he doesn't seem to be very interested in his teams results, he'd rather try and ruin our threads.

Well done Japan anyway, midfield is starting to look a little problematic for the AB's.

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Post by ebop Sat 02 Nov 2013, 8:13 pm

It was a stroll in the park for the ABs. I'm not reading anything into that performance, only that a team comprising mostly our second and third best ranked players can score 50 points and not concede any tries against japan.

Kia mate, think you're overbeating the egg a bit. Was a frustrating game to watch at times I admit and I watched a lot of it at 12x speed. But it was a warm up jog about. The ABs didn't need to peak for this. I'd rather they save focus/energy for the poms or blow out at the last hurdle.

Am curious, what's problematic with our midfield pooly?
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Post by Taylorman Sat 02 Nov 2013, 8:22 pm

yeah I'm in the same boat ebop. I didnt know what to expect but in hindsight, the departure from our normal 'test' variables were so many that anything could happen...opposition, venue, selection, combinations, debuts and the sheer number of switched positions is too much to expect anything predictable. And remember he opposition has been given a history making opportunity- surely the biggest upset in rugby history if they were to get up.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sat 02 Nov 2013, 8:58 pm

Perhaps but in this squad if you get a chance to perform its best to take it and I feel many missed that opportunity against opposition who should've allowed them to shine. There were good points of course but saying we scored 50 and didn't concede a try doesn't tell the full story.

Looking forward to the next three games. Bigger challenges will bring out better performances I'm sure. Things to work on but I'm very happy with where we are at the moment. Today's test was not important in the grand scheme of things but that doesn't mean it's devoid of criticism. We're always looking for the perfect performance and I don't think there's anything wrong with saying many were far from giving that kind of performance today.

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Post by Taylorman Sat 02 Nov 2013, 9:04 pm

dont think the weather/ surface helped a lot either kia. It looked like it was wetter than it looked.

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Post by ebop Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:03 pm

Don't get me wrong Kia, I agree to an extent with what you're saying as I have highfalutin ideas about how the ABs 'should' play as well (but I don't have your rugby nous to analyse specifics). But I have flushed the dunny on that game not because I was 'very' dissapointed with what I saw (on the pitch) but just that we always play like that against teams we know we'll wallop. If that had been our first XV or we had let in 2-3 tries then I'd be a touch ropeable.

That aside, thought Japan showed more strength and physicality than I can recall them having which was good. Just read that that was the first game in 52 that Japan hasn't scored. So with that and piatau, 2 good things in an otherwise ho hum performance.

Lastly, agree with you Tman about McCaw, just asking the question though. No harm. For me, I'd hate to see him put in some bad performances. But he hasn't really and he STILL keeps going. In the RC (forget which game), he was top tackler, today he helped save a late japan try. He's still the king. But maybe someone like Read has taken over the mantle of someone we worry about when he's not on the paddock. Because he's the best and we lack depth, much like McCaw/7 was.
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Post by ebop Sat 02 Nov 2013, 10:04 pm

Edit. Sorry, meant Japan scoring a try
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Post by emack2 Sun 03 Nov 2013, 6:18 am

A few thoughts only going on reports etc.Firstly first test after a break most teams suffer Nz,and England both had scratchy wins.The Scrum currently is a disaster area for all teams
no two Refs policing it the same.
Both McCaw and Carter according to Hansen had a good game and he`s the one that matters.
A scratch team thrown together for a game wasn't going to gel realistically especially with respect versus Japan.A side willing but just trying to put in a performance which they did well.
This is nothing like the the first team an only RM and DC were 2012 starters overall again
according to Hansen not happy .
In such a match some shine others don`t some apparently did others didn't Barret on his
first start had a "Mare" according to reports.
All it means is hard work before meeting France who are an unknown quantity.

emack2

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