World Tour Final Draw

Group 1: Nadal, Ferrer, Berdych, Wawrinka
Group 2: Djokovic, Del Potro, Federer, Gasquet

Shall we just give Rafa a bye to the SF?

Yes.

If you were Gasquet you'd just have your head in your hands. Still it is the WTF. Best of the best.

The groups do at a cursory glance seem to be very unbalanced. But hey..that's the nature of the beast. Nadal surely will not have a better chance at putting this trophy in his cabinet. Should have a breeze through to the semi's and would surely be fresher than any of his opponents.

Strangely, if Federer beats Del Potro and Djokovic..might hinder his chances!

Gasquet was screwed no matter what group he was in. Out of his depth in this company. Hope Stan can get his act back together and get the second spot in Group A.

I think it will be Djokovic and Federer from Group B.

How do they determine the seeds for WTF?  Why not wait until after Paris is done?

I guess since all the places were decided they made the draw. Very heavy group 2 draw, tough for Roger and Del potro, nadals got a pretty easy one on paper

smh

Is it group 1 Monday, group 2 Tuesday?

Please say it is. The wife and I have all day tickets for Tuesday.

Can't believe my luck! They're playing a match from each group on the opening 2 days.

"Tuesday will be a repeat of the Paris semi-finals, with Nadal taking on Ferrer and then the blockbuster clash between Djokovic and Federer"

Nadal, Djokovic AND Federer! That is not a bad ticket!!  

Screw you Danny!!!

I just booked Federer vs Djokovic myself, couldnt believe there were seats available!

This year, London is shaping up really well, and will hopefully prove a fitting conclusion to the season's tour.

Disappointing that Murray cannot be there to complete the stellar line-up, but all others present are in pretty good form and (seemingly) injury-free.

Am envious of your blockbuster all-day Tuesday tickets Danny .........  

Danny_1982 wrote:Can't believe my luck! They're playing a match from each group on the opening 2 days.

"Tuesday will be a repeat of the Paris semi-finals, with Nadal taking on Ferrer and then the blockbuster clash between Djokovic and Federer"

Nadal, Djokovic AND Federer! That is not a bad ticket!!  

Same here, all day ticket for Tuesday. Fantastic luck of the draw for us! Good call on the booking CAS, I'm amazed there were any left though.

I am envious (like Lags) of ALL the posters who have tickets while the 'other' group (like us) will be sitting in front of idiot boxes.

Enjoy your day, but please report back on your O2 day, for the vicarious pleasures of the 'others'.

Silver wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:Can't believe my luck! They're playing a match from each group on the opening 2 days.

"Tuesday will be a repeat of the Paris semi-finals, with Nadal taking on Ferrer and then the blockbuster clash between Djokovic and Federer"

Nadal, Djokovic AND Federer! That is not a bad ticket!!  

Same here, all day ticket for Tuesday. Fantastic luck of the draw for us! Good call on the booking CAS, I'm amazed there were any left though.

Tell me about it, I took a shot. Level one seats as well at a reasonable price. Im still fearful theres a catch!

Will do LF. Will report from the 02 either on the night or the day after.

Still can't believe our luck. It's like a grand slam semi final line up! Awesome.

Well played, CAS. Might have done the same myself, but I have been away from the computer since it was announced and it's too late now.

I did buy Federer-Nadal tickets after the draw was announced a few days before. I think I had to do in the first minutes you could work out what session it would be, just before it was formally announced. There was a little window there. EDIT: Of course I'm talking about a different year.

So, now that they've split the groups, as far as I can tell, there is no way of telling what matches will be on on Wednesday, when I have all day tickets....

I make it with Rafa a 1420 points advantage going into London, 1500 available. To get the year end no 1, Djokovic needs an undefeated tournament while Rafa loses every match...can someone check and confirm that?

Rafa is year end no 1 if he beats Ferrer on Tuesday.

Henman Bill, if the year end no.1 is decided at the end of the WTF, then yes. I'm not clear if it is though, or if "year end" is after the Davis Cup final, in which case Nadal needs 2 wins. Both opinions are included in the comments on this ATP article:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2013/10/44/London-Finale-Nadal-Chance-At-History.aspx
It is certainly the case that the Davis Cup points count in the 2014 race (to the WTF), but that doesn't mean conclusively that the "year end" is after the WTF.

In any case, I don't see Nadal failing to get 2 wins.

Shall do, LF. I'll try to take some decent pictures and put them on here too.

CAS, I'm just praying you don't have the seat with some gigantic pillar in the way!

1420 advantage

1725 points to gain for nole if:
he wins everymatch in the wtf
he wins both matches in davis cup final and serbia gets the title

that scenario would mean a 305 point lead for nole, so yes, nadal secures the number one with 2 wins in round robin even if he doesn't make the semis with those 2 wins

can nole beat delpo, federer and gasket and the win the whole thing? yes he can and he seems like determined to do it

can nadal not win 2 matches against ferrer, berdych and wawrinka?

we will soon see

No doubt whatsoever that Group 2 is hardest.  Gotta feel for Fed really, he is on the up at the moment and needs some confidence and then he is plonked with those two.  Anyone winning this thing from that group is going to have to play a brilliant tournament.

On the other side, Nadal and Stan would be my calls, but we all know how much Nadal has trouble indoor hard courts, especially at the end of the year, and Ferrer has shown he isn't going to roll over.  In fact, what I am trying to say is... this is a very very high quality competition being the top 8 (OK 9...), and anyone except Gasquet has a chance.

On order of likelihood imho...

1. Djokovic
2. Del Potro
3. Federer/Nadal
4. Ferrer / Stan
5. Berdych
6. Gasquet.

If Gasquet wins I will be really shocked.  What odds are the bookies giving?

I bet he gets mauled today by Del Potro 6-2 6-2.

Berdych hasn't won a tournament all year. I don't think anyone believes this will be his first.

This is going to be a big show.

Everyone has to be on their game right from the off. No easy rides here as can happen in other virtually all other tournies on the calendar......

Allez STAN THE MAN!

The WTF only becomes a knock out tournament at the semi final stage. In many ways as a player it's best to be in the same group as your most tricky opponent. That way a loss to them isn't always significant and you are guaranteed to avoid them if you both get to the semi final stage.

Berdych, virtually eliminated with his loss to Wawrinka, methinks.

Yeah...seems a big ask to get through now. At least he nabbed a set though, which could be crucial later on if Nadal wins all his matches, and Ferrer beats Stan.

Didn't think about the Davis Cup. I think year end ranking should be December 31st.

Nadal needs 1 win to be ranked 1 after this tournament.

And 2 wins to be year end number one.

"The knee is not 100%, but it's not the moment to think about that. I was able to play with free movements for most of the season."

He's already started with the knee nonsense...

Leonard777 wrote:"The knee is not 100%, but it's not the moment to think about that. I was able to play with free movements for most of the season."

He's already started with the knee nonsense...

Basically because his knee will NEVER be 100% .. Nonsense??
Is Roger¨s back nonsense ?

Roger doesn't go into every match bringing his back up (just so that if he loses he can retain his ego), and he doesn't "hide away for 4 months" either

I seem to recall people around these parts mentioning that Rafa doesn't bring criticism onto himself and it's the media.  But it isn't.  He is never far away from mentioning how bad his knees are.  It's completely disrespectful to his opponents too because he knows full well what he is doing downplaying their victories.  And you wonder why I can't stick him.

Other news... Gasquet has taken the first set.

  

I anticipated that response.
The reason Roger does not speak of it is they do not question him about it.
Seemingly never a Nadal presser goes by with a reporter asking the question about his knees.
I would suggest your quote has been taken out of context

[]please post the article from which it comes) It reads more as an answer to a question rather than a statement.

It has NOT come from his presser after the Ferrer match.
Most if not all the posters on this forum (even those who are not fans of Rafa and indeed do not particularly like him) have agreed and accepted that his knee(s) are and always will be his problem
As Roger´s back (and would have been) Andy´s, DP´s wrist  etc.

Injuries are seemingly very common in today´s physical game none of which can be called nonsense.

L777 you are a fairly new poster I believe, and entitled to your opinion but if you are going to make provocative statements about a player you "loath" and who you can´t "stick" remember that there are
fans on here who will support their player.. but have no wish to get involved in a  
The mods would prefer a civilised discussion. Carry on loathing him as much as you like ... frankly Im sure he does not give a damn

I'd be embarrassed making those kinds of excuses, and supporting a guy like that. But that's just me.

As I have requested... please post the article from where you got this quote of Rafa´s

THIS IS HIS PRESS RELEASE AFTER THE MATCH

http://www.nadalnews.com/2013/11/04/paris-semifinal-presser-transcript/#.UngVXaxjRss

Leonard777 wrote:I'd be embarrassed making those kinds of excuses, and supporting a guy like that.  But that's just me.

Opinions on players have always been allowed. Opinions of fans and other posters should be carefully considered, as per the rules of the forum (which I'm sure you read when you signed up).

Haddie-nuff wrote:As I have requested... please post the article from where you got this quote of Rafa´s

Why don't you just put my quote into google?  I can't post proper links yet, the board won't let me.

m.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/24765132

He's also been moaning that the surface for the finals is indoor hard court and said he is "unlucky" not to have won it already.  No wonder he isn't winning any sportsmanship prizes.

Leonard,

I would say the favourites go 1 Djokovic 2 Rafa 3 Federer 4 Del Potro and there is not much between them.

Normally you wouldn't put Rafa ahead of Roger but on form this season, easier group and considering Rafa's hard court wins this season, even against Djokovic, I think it's reasonable.

I would be really surprised if anyone else wins it. 5th favourite would be Ferrer I suppose.

Rafael Nadal has been talking to BBC tennis correspondent Russell Fuller this afternoon, and the Spaniard has been talking about the knee injury that kept him out for seven months until February.

"It's true that probably because of the injury, I had to decide to go more offensive, play with more determination, more inside the court. So it's true that I had to play a little bit more aggressively.

"The knee is not 100%, but it's not the moment to think about that. I was able to play with free movements for most of the season."

Leonard777/H-n… Can we leave the back/knee nosense out of the Tennis discussion, pretty please?

Yes please, knees and backs are not very interesting parts of the body.

On the other hand, any one is welcome to poke Djoko, as he's the Forum's punch bag, lacking love and dying to be loved

Fed to dismantle Djoko today in 2 quick sets.

It isn't my fault that Kneedal seems addicted to talking about them just before he plays a match, but I'll steer clear of it as much as possible.

Leonard777 wrote:It isn't my fault that Nadal seems addicted to talking about them just before he plays a match.

 

Rafa's comments about his knees and Fed's about his back are topical and should be appropriate points of debate. Have to say I find it very hard to believe that the slightly lower bounce indoors should make as much a difference to Rada's knees as is being suggested. It may be it is just the fact he is at the end of a long season which means he is feeling increased pain.

Ahhh the old chestnut about switching it to clay has raised its ugly head. It's these comments that infuriate more so than his knees. Tbh it does seem that he has just dropped it into conversation rather than been asked/prompted to talk about it directly.

Strangely he's right in his comment...now is not the time to talk about it. Unfortunately he already had!!!

Anyway, I think indoor for this tournament is absolutely fine. Why? Because for me it's the purest form of tennis. What I mean by that, is that indoors neutralises anyones preferences equally. The conditions are benign. There is no wind, no bad bounces, no unduly low or high bounces.

Tennis is fundementally a raquet sport. It rewards timing, placement, hand/eye co-ordination and siezing the moment. It was not, as far as I am aware, ever designed to be a endurance sport!

And before we cry that tennis is an outdoor sport - well these people should refer to the history of the game. Tennis is an off-shoot from 'Real' Tennis. Which is actually an indoor game. The history of the game lies indoors. Tenuous perhaps.

But can you imagine watching a Tour Finals, that is supposed to be a showcase for the best tennis players for the season, being played on clay? Endless defensive rallies. Not to mention the geographical/seasonal and commercial problems associated with switching to clay.

An indoor clay court might be viable but its position in the season would make it a bit odd.

We're right at the end of a long hard court swing and have just played an indoor HC Masters. To suddenly switch to clay, with pretty much no practice time, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I think a medium HC is probably the fairest surface. Slow enough to accentuate the best defensive skills but quick enough for big hitters to punch through.

World tour finals for me should be on a more moderate surface - a slow hard makes the most sense. Surely not all courts have to be fast, just because they are indoor. It makes sense to have it on hard, the most common surface of the tour, but I think average speed, rather than faster than average, also works for such a year end tournament.

That being said, Rafa is lucky the rest of the tour is so slow. I would like to see US Open, Wimbledon, and some masters being faster.

There aren't any fast courts about now.  It's time we had super fast courts at least some of the tour, and what about grass Masters?  At the moment it is all geared for baseline pushers.  Nadal has nothing to complain about, if he was playing in the 80s he would be toast.  The BBC have already explained why it's staying indoor.  It's not the right time for year for it, and clay is the LAST surface you want as a year end tournament, given the players are all tired.

As usual, Rafa only thinking about himself.  

Leonard777 wrote:There aren't any fast courts about now.  It's time we had super fast courts at least some of the tour, and what about grass Masters?  At the moment it is all geared for baseline pushers.  Nadal has nothing to complain about, if he was playing in the 80s he would be toast.  The BBC have already explained why it's staying indoor.  It's not the right time for year for it, and clay is the LAST surface you want as a year end tournament, given the players are all tired.

As usual, Rafa only thinking about himself.  

Tell me if you would who from the 80´s would have made toast of him ?? because according to Johnny Mc
nobody !!