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Pacquiao Rios

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6oldenbhoy
kingraf
Lumbering_Jack
Hammersmith harrier
Strongback
Seanusarrilius
bellchees
TopHat24/7
Rodney
hazharrison
Valero's Conscience
Gerry SA
WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs
TRUSSMAN66
hampo17
Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake
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Post by Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:39 am

No chat ahead of this weekend's fight? I've been trying to get my head around the scheduling and it looks as though the fight will happen early afternoon in Macau on Saturday. The show appears to start at 1:30am on Boxnation on SATURDAY morning, not Sunday morning. If that is the case then it's dissapointing that they're trying to satisfy US PPV audiences.

Anyway, how do we see this one going? It'll be interesting to see if Manny's brutal KO at the hands of Marquez will have any lasting impact. To be honest, Rios is the perfect comeback fight for Manny but I don't see it telling us a lot about Manny's longer term prospects (at this late stage of his career). Rios has no experience at welterweight and no experience on a stage of this size, against a fighter of Manny's calibre. He's almost tailor made to make Manny look good and rebuild his confidence. Watching the 24/7 show Rios looks a bit bewildered by the carnival going on around him. He's a bit of character but I don't see him having the power to remotely bother Manny regardless of the Marquez KO and I see Manny blasting him out within 6 rounds.

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Post by hampo17 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:55 am

I expect Rios to come in looking very fleshy. He has never striked me as a guy with a lot of discipline and the extra weight will probably allow him to slack off more, at least in his own mind.

Interestingly this is going to be who takes a backwards step first, both guys fight on the front foot and neither can fight going backwards in my opinion.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 10:56 am

There are two ways of looking at Rios............

The first is the current d4 way...........Rios has suddenly become a p4per overnight, a guy who floyd is ducking and a guy about to give Manny the fight of his life............and the guy to cement Manny's legacy and put him above the useless Sugar Rar Robbo....

Or look at it another way and say he doesn't have the style to hurt Manny who will be able to potshot all night long.............and he's coming off a loss so his confidence will probably be lacking also.......

Me I prefer the second option.......

Manny ko 7............

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Tue 19 Nov 2013, 11:32 am

Unless the Ko has a lasting effect,  which it could,  Pacquiao will probably beat Rios into a bloody mess

Rios was good when he has huge weight and power advantages as he could just walk through lightweights,  but he has never been in with a fighter like manny and if he continues to not move his head manny could seriously damage him

The man has already had too many wars and while he will bring it and won't go hiding,  I see a margarito esque beating coming his way

He has  a punchers chance,  but he is more of a wear you down type of punches than a one shot guy,  especially as  a weight he's never competed at,  although probably welter is his natural weight as he blows up like mad after every fight

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Post by Gerry SA Tue 19 Nov 2013, 11:39 am

The higher the weight the better for Rios.

He all struggled to make 135. He's was trimmed at 140 in the two fights with Alvarado.

Much depends on if Robert Garcia can hammer in a defensive side to Rios' all action attacking style.

The second Alvarado fight showed Rios was pretty clueless against a far superior mover. With was also the case with Abril at 135.

If PACMAN stands toe to toe with Rios, then that would favour Rios, as PacMan doesn't had a KO win in a few years now.

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Post by Valero's Conscience Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:03 pm

Easy win for Manny IMO. Rios has a chin and great engine to overwhelm opponents but the guys he's fought are 2-3 levels below Manny.

Rios has a P4P chin but has never been cracked by someone like Manny and Alvarado had him wobbled at times. Rios will be his own worst nightmare by being open to take the shots but will succumb at some point.

Manny TKO Round 8.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:19 pm

Arum wouldn't be putting Pacquiao in with Rios if he didn't think it was a winnable fight over an exciting opponent (thereby shooting Pacquiao back to the position he was in pre-Marquez).

Pacquiao has tended to struggle with fighters who can counter effectively. He was able to put a whupping on the likes of Diaz, Clottey and Margarito -- and almost decapitated Ricky Hatton.

Rios will fight like hell but will be walking onto big, sharp shots. He'll be a mess at the finish -- I wouldn't be surprised to see him stopped due to facial damage.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:21 pm

It'll be way more exciting than some of the big fights we've had to sit through recently, though, for as long as it lasts.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:24 pm

Not even the canny Arum believes he can get manny back to the same position he was in Pre-Marquez........

Bit like saying a Curry win over mccallum puts him back in the top 2 p4pers

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:28 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not even the canny Arum believes he can get manny back to the same position he was in Pre-Marquez........

Bit like saying a Curry win over mccallum puts him back in the top 2 p4pers
I'm not talking about P4P gobbledygook -- I'm talking about earning power. Pacquiao is a one-man franchise and a win would put him back in the mix for big events. With Asia emerging as a real threat to the US -- in terms of becoming boxing's power base -- a win for Pacquiao is crucial to Arum's plans.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:28 pm

I think both are related..........

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:34 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think both are related..........
Both what? P4P nonsense and earning power? I couldn't disagree more. Ward and Bradley couldn't draw flies. Chavez Jr. does big numbers. The former haven't established a fan base -- unlike the latter.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:47 pm

Why can't you debate without getting stroppy.......

I'm suggesting a lot of people want to see the best around........A lot of people watched Manny because he was the best or bestish!!.......

If I want to see Hamlet........Do I watch Jason statham or Anthony hopkins.......

Me I watch Hoppo........and there are others like me.......

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:55 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why can't you debate without getting stroppy.......

I'm suggesting a lot of people want to see the best around........A lot of people watched Manny because he was the best or bestish!!.......

If I want to see Hamlet........Do I watch Jason statham or Anthony hopkins.......

Me I watch Hoppo........and there are others like me.......
 
How have I been "stroppy"? Dear me, if that's not the pot calling the kettle.
 
People want to see Pacquiao because he's exciting. Who wants to watch Hopkins hugging and clowning? I'd rather watch snooker.


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Post by Rodney Tue 19 Nov 2013, 12:57 pm

Why was Gatti a big seller in the U.S then ?

Pacquaio is a major US seller not bad for a foreigner, he is one of the most exciting fighters in the world to watch why can't you accept that.

Cheers Rodders
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:02 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why can't you debate without getting stroppy.......

I'm suggesting a lot of people want to see the best around........A lot of people watched Manny because he was the best or bestish!!.......

If I want to see Hamlet........Do I watch Jason statham or Anthony hopkins.......

Me I watch Hoppo........and there are others like me.......
 
How have I been "stroppy"? Dear me, if that's not the pot calling the kettle..
You're doing it again.......Calm down

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:03 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There are two ways of looking at Rios............

The first is  the current d4 way...........Rios has suddenly become a p4per overnight, a guy who floyd is ducking and a guy about to give Manny the fight of his life............and the guy to cement Manny's legacy and put him above the useless Sugar Rar Robbo....

Or look at it another way and say he doesn't have the style to hurt Manny who will be able to potshot all night long.............and he's coming off a loss so his confidence will probably be lacking also.......

Me I prefer the second option.......

Manny ko 7............
Three ways - the third being how you'd rate him if it were Floyd he were fighting, not Manny.

Although I suspect that'd be suspiciously like the first way you mention.

This is on the same level as the Guerrero fight for Floyd.  Decent level opponent, certainly brings something to the table, but nobody in all honesty really gives him much of a hope.


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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:05 pm

Prediction-wise, Manny has never been able to knock anyone out (Hatton excepted) above Lightweight so I suspect this will be a long night of sustained beating, akin to Margacheato, with the ref stopping it potentially to preserve Rios' health.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:10 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Why can't you debate without getting stroppy.......

I'm suggesting a lot of people want to see the best around........A lot of people watched Manny because he was the best or bestish!!.......

If I want to see Hamlet........Do I watch Jason statham or Anthony hopkins.......

Me I watch Hoppo........and there are others like me.......
 
How have I been "stroppy"? Dear me, if that's not the pot calling the kettle..
You're doing it again.......Calm down
I'll start throwing a few "mates" in on the end and "I respect your opinion but" if that makes you feel less paranoid?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:12 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There are two ways of looking at Rios............

The first is  the current d4 way...........Rios has suddenly become a p4per overnight, a guy who floyd is ducking and a guy about to give Manny the fight of his life............and the guy to cement Manny's legacy and put him above the useless Sugar Rar Robbo....

Or look at it another way and say he doesn't have the style to hurt Manny who will be able to potshot all night long.............and he's coming off a loss so his confidence will probably be lacking also.......

Me I prefer the second option.......

Manny ko 7............
Three ways - the third being how you'd rate him if it were Floyd he were fighting, not Manny.

Although I suspect that'd be suspiciously like the first way you mention.

This is on the same level as the Guerrero fight for Floyd.  Decent level opponent, certainly brings something to the table, but nobody in all honesty really gives him much of a hope.
Forgetting the silly Floyd pop............Guerrero wasn't coming off a loss and was considered one of the best in the business....

But please feel free to demean Guerrero......From the same guy who said Alvarez was overrated and a zombie...

I expect no better......and I'm not sure why I'm bothering to take the bait.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:12 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There are two ways of looking at Rios............

The first is  the current d4 way...........Rios has suddenly become a p4per overnight, a guy who floyd is ducking and a guy about to give Manny the fight of his life............and the guy to cement Manny's legacy and put him above the useless Sugar Rar Robbo....

Or look at it another way and say he doesn't have the style to hurt Manny who will be able to potshot all night long.............and he's coming off a loss so his confidence will probably be lacking also.......

Me I prefer the second option.......

Manny ko 7............
Three ways - the third being how you'd rate him if it were Floyd he were fighting, not Manny.

Although I suspect that'd be suspiciously like the first way you mention.

This is on the same level as the Guerrero fight for Floyd.  Decent level opponent, certainly brings something to the table, but nobody in all honesty really gives him much of a hope.
 
I'd take Rios over Guerrero to be fair.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:13 pm

Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...


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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:19 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- you're taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".

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Post by bellchees Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:24 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- your'e taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".
On what basis would you have Rios above Guerrero? Other than being a huge Lightweight he has nothing going for him. Above Lightweight he's 1-1 with a very ordinary fighter like Alvarado and his last fight at Lightweight was the worst decision I've ever seen.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:25 pm

Guerrero was number 8 in the p4p stakes when he lost to Floyd.........Rios isn't in the running for a slot......You mention the Ring magazine as an expert publication on a regular basis..

Obviously only when it suits.......

Jack Johnson number 9.........and the reason Mayweather isn't top 10 is because he's never fought anybody.

You're jealous of current fighters/peers getting recognition.........we get it.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:27 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There are two ways of looking at Rios............

The first is  the current d4 way...........Rios has suddenly become a p4per overnight, a guy who floyd is ducking and a guy about to give Manny the fight of his life............and the guy to cement Manny's legacy and put him above the useless Sugar Rar Robbo....

Or look at it another way and say he doesn't have the style to hurt Manny who will be able to potshot all night long.............and he's coming off a loss so his confidence will probably be lacking also.......

Me I prefer the second option.......

Manny ko 7............
Three ways - the third being how you'd rate him if it were Floyd he were fighting, not Manny.

Although I suspect that'd be suspiciously like the first way you mention.

This is on the same level as the Guerrero fight for Floyd.  Decent level opponent, certainly brings something to the table, but nobody in all honesty really gives him much of a hope.
Forgetting the silly Floyd  pop............Guerrero wasn't coming off a loss and was considered one of the best in the business....

But please feel free to demean Guerrero......From the same guy who said Alvarez was overrated and a zombie...

I expect no better......and I'm not sure why I'm bothering to take the bait.
Quote me where I said either of those things about Alvarez? You can't, because I didn't.  In fact, if you gave a monkey's about the truth, you'd remember I said Alvarez was the best and most credible fight out there for Floyd to take.  My only critique was the silly catchweight and its hypocrisy.

RG was 'coming off' one good win - Berto - on top of a couple of decent wins at a weight 12lbs below where Floyd fought him. Rios CV looks much the same, with the Alvarado win as good as Berto, it's only the dropped decision that differs and that's no show-stopper.

And Rios is about as much 'one of the best in the business' as RG ever was.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:29 pm

bellchees wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- your'e taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".
On what basis would you have Rios above Guerrero? Other than being a huge Lightweight he has nothing going for him. Above Lightweight he's 1-1 with a very ordinary fighter like Alvarado and his last fight at Lightweight was the worst decision I've ever seen.
I'd have RG a notch ahead of Rios, but in terms of relative credibility I'd have them level.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:30 pm

Funny thing with you........I write some anti-Utd stuff on a soccer thread and you turn up a minute later as Utd's greatest fan...

I can't take you seriously.......

You did malign Alvarez after the fight........and If anyone wants to go back and check please do.........

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Post by bellchees Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:33 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- your'e taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".
On what basis would you have Rios above Guerrero? Other than being a huge Lightweight he has nothing going for him. Above Lightweight he's 1-1 with a very ordinary fighter like Alvarado and his last fight at Lightweight was the worst decision I've ever seen.
I'd have RG a notch ahead of Rios, but in terms of relative credibility I'd have them level.
Even though Guerrero has 2 decent wins at the weight (nothing spectacular but solid) and Rios hasn't ever fought there is 1-1 at the weight below and his only other fight in the last 2 years he lost 11 rounds and stole a win somehow whilst looking entirely ineffective?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:35 pm

Fact is Rios has just lost.........


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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:39 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Funny thing with you........I write some anti-Utd stuff on a soccer thread and you turn up a minute later as Utd's greatest fan...

I can't take you seriously.......

You did malign Alvarez after the fight........and If anyone wants to go back and check please do.........
I've posted dozens, if not hundreds, of times on United threads. Again, you're seeing what you want to see in order to have an argument.

I did malign Alvarez after the fight, how could you not? His performance was pathetic. 3 fellow latin fighters had shown him what to do (Castillo, ODLH & Cotto) and despite being the youngest, freshest and biggest of any of them he adopted the world's worst game plan in the history of boxing. Hell, Ketchel trying to floor JJ was a shrewder move!

Notice you conveniently miss the bit where I actually praised Floyd though for his performance, using the words masterclass, among others.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:43 pm

Rios loses to Alvarado who's just lost to the worst excuse for a fighter I've seen in the last 10 years..

A completely open East European who fights with his face....

and Guerrero is worse.........Do me a favor..

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:44 pm

bellchees wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- your'e taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".
On what basis would you have Rios above Guerrero? Other than being a huge Lightweight he has nothing going for him. Above Lightweight he's 1-1 with a very ordinary fighter like Alvarado and his last fight at Lightweight was the worst decision I've ever seen.
I'd have RG a notch ahead of Rios, but in terms of relative credibility I'd have them level.
Even though Guerrero has 2 decent wins at the weight (nothing spectacular but solid) and Rios hasn't ever fought there is 1-1 at the weight below and his only other fight in the last 2 years he lost 11 rounds and stole a win somehow whilst looking entirely ineffective?
Because, simply put, they're still both just two fighters with decent names and a bit of impetus behind them but who nobody expects to win. They're both well-chosen opponents who can be sold a bit to develop some interest but at the end of the day shouldn't ever upset the odds.

RG had had a tune-up plus Berto at the weight, all the rest of his CV was LW or lower so it's not like he was some kind of 'fully fledged WW'. Rios has had two fights at one weight below but again the rest of his CV is at LW or lower.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:53 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Guerrero was number 8 in the p4p stakes when he lost to Floyd.........Rios isn't in the running for a slot......You mention the Ring magazine as an expert publication on a regular basis..

Obviously only when it suits.......

Jack Johnson number 9.........and the reason Mayweather isn't top 10  is because he's never fought anybody.

You're jealous of current fighters/peers getting recognition.........we get it.
Ring used to be a source of disctinction, however, since they dispensed with Nigel Collins, Eric Raskin, Bill Dettloff and Ivan Goldman, that is no longer the case.
 
I'll try to spell this one out for you really clearly.
 
Guerrero was rated (by Chuck Giampa -- who compiles these ratings single handidly) at number eight based on the fact he'd won alphabet titles at featherweight and super featherweight and had pulled off a couple of respectable wins at lightweight. That doesn't instantly qualify Guerrero as a top welterweight -- a division where he'd had a grand total of two bouts (one of which was a life and death struggle with the vastly overrated Andre Berto).
 
Do you understand the concept at all?
 
As for being jealous -- what a strange accusation to level at someone. Rating modern fighters requires more investigation than it once did, such is the confusion surrounding achievements based on the proliferation of titles and the constant cross-weight match-ups that usually result in one fighter being unfairly matched.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 1:58 pm

So let's get this right............

Guerrero had three world titles......Hadn't lost in 8 years and was a ring number 8.......

Rios lost to the washed up Alvarado last time out and is not in or near any list..

Rios is a better victory..........

Be sensible Haz...............Not being patronised by someone who has Jack johnson at 9 and no Mayweather because he hasn't fought anybody.......

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Post by bellchees Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:04 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- your'e taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".
On what basis would you have Rios above Guerrero? Other than being a huge Lightweight he has nothing going for him. Above Lightweight he's 1-1 with a very ordinary fighter like Alvarado and his last fight at Lightweight was the worst decision I've ever seen.
I'd have RG a notch ahead of Rios, but in terms of relative credibility I'd have them level.
Even though Guerrero has 2 decent wins at the weight (nothing spectacular but solid) and Rios hasn't ever fought there is 1-1 at the weight below and his only other fight in the last 2 years he lost 11 rounds and stole a win somehow whilst looking entirely ineffective?
Because, simply put, they're still both just two fighters with decent names and a bit of impetus behind them but who nobody expects to win.  They're both well-chosen opponents who can be sold a bit to develop some interest but at the end of the day shouldn't ever upset the odds.

RG had had a tune-up plus Berto at the weight, all the rest of his CV was LW or lower so it's not like he was some kind of 'fully fledged WW'. Rios has had two fights at one weight below but again the rest of his CV is at LW or lower.
But Guerrero actually won his fights and Rios has 1 win, 1 loss and 1 robbery in his last 3 fights?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:05 pm

Absolutely.............Rios is damaged goods.........and Alvarado isn't anything special...

Poor old Ring magazine........Now a load of stiffs because they don't agree with Bob Mee on everything..

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Post by Seanusarrilius Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:09 pm

Rios gets pummeled. he is far too hittable, and unless Pac is done, it's tee off time.


Last edited by Seanusarrilius on Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So let's get this right............

Guerrero had three world titles......Hadn't lost in 8 years and was a ring number 8.......

Rios lost to the washed up Alvarado last time out and is not in or near any list..

Rios is a better victory..........

Be sensible Haz...............Not being patronised by someone who has Jack johnson at 9 and no Mayweather because he hasn't fought anybody.......
I believe that Rios is a tougher opponent at or around 147 than Guerrero, yes. If you're rating them on their achievements (irregardless of weight) then Guerrero would rate higher. Surely that isn't too difficult to understand?

I revised my snap selection of Johnson.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Absolutely.............Rios is damaged goods.........and Alvarado isn't anything special...

Poor old Ring magazine........Now a load of stiffs because they don't agree with Bob Mee on everything..
You've gone again -- obviously we've hit a trigger and so you need to breathe deeply. You'll only end up spouting gibberish in some sort of childish paddy unless you get a grip.

Concentrate on your Floyd poster.......stay with me here....

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:27 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Rios loses to Alvarado who's just lost to the worst excuse for a fighter I've seen in the last 10 years..

You mean the guy who in his previous fight smashed your precious p4p#3 around the ring who was gifted a lucky decision??

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:29 pm

Provodnikov is a tough as old boots. He's crude but that assessment is way off beam -- gave Bradley fits.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:32 pm

bellchees wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- your'e taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".
On what basis would you have Rios above Guerrero? Other than being a huge Lightweight he has nothing going for him. Above Lightweight he's 1-1 with a very ordinary fighter like Alvarado and his last fight at Lightweight was the worst decision I've ever seen.
I'd have RG a notch ahead of Rios, but in terms of relative credibility I'd have them level.
Even though Guerrero has 2 decent wins at the weight (nothing spectacular but solid) and Rios hasn't ever fought there is 1-1 at the weight below and his only other fight in the last 2 years he lost 11 rounds and stole a win somehow whilst looking entirely ineffective?
Because, simply put, they're still both just two fighters with decent names and a bit of impetus behind them but who nobody expects to win.  They're both well-chosen opponents who can be sold a bit to develop some interest but at the end of the day shouldn't ever upset the odds.

RG had had a tune-up plus Berto at the weight, all the rest of his CV was LW or lower so it's not like he was some kind of 'fully fledged WW'. Rios has had two fights at one weight below but again the rest of his CV is at LW or lower.
But Guerrero actually won his fights and Rios has 1 win, 1 loss and 1 robbery in his last 3 fights?
RG had 1 proper fight and 1 gimme. If Rios had done the same he'd be 2-0 also. After that they're both just LW/SFW fighters, albeit I prefer RG's CV down there. But as I say, I'm not saying Rios is ahead of RG (Haz is), I'm saying as comparative fights they're level. Neither are fully fledged at the weight where they're fighting guys who've pretty much shared the p4p #1 and #2 slots over the last 5-8 yrs and both are roundly expected to lose.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:35 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
bellchees wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Of course you would.......Hagler over Floyd and printing only half of a Bernstein article where he has Manny on the same level as Floyd...

 
Everything comes back to your hero doesn't it? What a strange bloke you are.
 
I don't believe Guerrero is as good a fighter as Rios -- plain and simple. Every boxing-related topic doesn't revolve around your idol -- your'e taking the "all roads lead to Mayweather" thing a bit far.
 
You obviously didn't read the article (doesn't surprise me really). Those claims were made by the writer, not Bernstein.
 
Save us the tourette-style scattergun retorts "5 P4Ps, Duran-Laing, Curry, Hagler over Floyd, Louis fought bums etc.".
On what basis would you have Rios above Guerrero? Other than being a huge Lightweight he has nothing going for him. Above Lightweight he's 1-1 with a very ordinary fighter like Alvarado and his last fight at Lightweight was the worst decision I've ever seen.
I'd have RG a notch ahead of Rios, but in terms of relative credibility I'd have them level.
Even though Guerrero has 2 decent wins at the weight (nothing spectacular but solid) and Rios hasn't ever fought there is 1-1 at the weight below and his only other fight in the last 2 years he lost 11 rounds and stole a win somehow whilst looking entirely ineffective?
Because, simply put, they're still both just two fighters with decent names and a bit of impetus behind them but who nobody expects to win.  They're both well-chosen opponents who can be sold a bit to develop some interest but at the end of the day shouldn't ever upset the odds.

RG had had a tune-up plus Berto at the weight, all the rest of his CV was LW or lower so it's not like he was some kind of 'fully fledged WW'. Rios has had two fights at one weight below but again the rest of his CV is at LW or lower.
But Guerrero actually won his fights and Rios has 1 win, 1 loss and 1 robbery in his last 3 fights?
RG had 1 proper fight and 1 gimme.  If Rios had done the same he'd be 2-0 also.  After that they're both just LW/SFW fighters, albeit I prefer RG's CV down there.  But as I say, I'm not saying Rios is ahead of RG (Haz is), I'm saying as comparative fights they're level.  Neither are fully fledged at the weight where they're fighting guys who've pretty much shared the p4p #1 and #2 slots over the last 5-8 yrs and both are roundly expected to lose.
That's fair. I'd favour Rios in a head-to-head but neither of them have done a lot at the weight.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:38 pm

At a more comfortable weight of, say, 140, I'd back RG to take a points decision. He's got a decent reach advantage, good jab and fair chin so I'd expect him to box soundly if unexcitingly to a 116-112 type UD.

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Post by Strongback Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:51 pm

I've heard some calling for Pacquiao to go 2nd or 3rd in the Ring P4P list is he beats Rios. That again sets up the Floyd fight nicely.

Ardre Ward is steadily putting himself in contention for the No.1 spot. If he moves up to 175lb and bangs some heads he'll be No.1 in my view.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:57 pm

Not for me. Helps keep him (Pac) in the Top10 though.

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Post by hazharrison Tue 19 Nov 2013, 4:01 pm

Strongback wrote:I've heard some calling for Pacquiao to go 2nd or 3rd in the Ring P4P list is he beats Rios.  That again sets up the Floyd fight nicely.

Ardre Ward is steadily putting himself in contention for the No.1 spot.   If he moves up to 175lb and bangs some heads he'll be No.1 in my view.
Load of old nonsense those rankings. Pacquiao is 4th at welterweight (behind Floyd, Bradley and Marquez) and a win over Rios doesn't move him any higher -- just gets his career going again.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Tue 19 Nov 2013, 6:20 pm

Guerrero would have to rank higher than Rios, he's beaten Aydin and Berto as opposed to splitting two fights with Alvarado. Personally don't think Alvarado is any better than either of them, add in the fact he's yet to fight at the weight and he's a clear second.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Wed 20 Nov 2013, 9:26 am

But do you think Rios is any more danger to Pac than Guerrero was to Floyd?

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