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India in South Africa 2013

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Post by msp83 Mon 25 Nov 2013, 9:24 am

First topic message reminder :

The BCCI have picked the test squad for South Africa well in advance, so the debates can also start well in time.

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue 03 Dec 2013, 6:36 pm

msp83 wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:I won't complain if the management eventually go with Yadav. But Bhuvneshwar has an opportunity to nail the position in the ODIs. I'll be furious if they play Ishant based on potential.
there is too much of sameness without Yadav...medium to fast medium seamers......Yadav brings in skiddy pace
Unfortunately, pace is the only thing that he brings. Bhuvi is far more skillful, more accurate and can bat a bit as well. I don't understand the obsession with pace. Yadav is averaging 70 in this year's Ranji Trophy. And when did Yadav bowl 155 mph btw?
Pace does matter a lot. Accuracy is very important for any bowler, but being accurate at 125 KPH may not trouble many. Bhuvneshwar is quicker than that, but Yadav's pace is not something to be scoffed at. I am sure Shanky would know that Yadav plays for Vidarbha, and they play their home game on a horrendous flat road. Yadav hasn't been doing great in the away games either I know, but we  have to cut him some slack for playing on that road and still possessing the will to bowl fast. And your statement that Yadav doesn't bring anything other than pace is quite unfair. Would agree to some extend if you had said that about Varun Aaron. Yadav can bowl a testing bouncer, and can generate reverse swing at high pace. And unlike Aaron, he can get the new ball to seam a bit as well. Bhuvneshwar certainly is a lot more skilled with the new ball, but at present, at this stage of his career, he doesn't offer much with the older ball.
Don't think reverse swing would be a factor in SA. I'm not sure how you can say Bhuvi doesn't offer much with the older ball when he hasn't even been given a chance with it. And I am not sure what pitch has got to do with some of the filth Yadav has bowled this Ranji. If you bowl in the wrong areas, you'll get hammered everywhere regardless of how quick you are.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 03 Dec 2013, 6:55 pm

BCCI has made a proposal to share ICC revenues in proportion to the contriubtions instead of dividing it equally amongst 8 members.

so BCCI will take 75%.....Eng and Aus will probably take anotehr 20%.

whohc means strong test playing sides like Pak and SA will be left with 1% revenues as opposed to 12.5% that they are guaranteed now

At the sidelines of the ICC awards announcement function in Mumbai, BCCI secretary Sanjay Patel said the issue was the "legitimate right" of the BCCI and was still under discussion. "This legitimate right issue has been put up before the Full Members of ICC. It is nothing but a just and fair right that we are asking for. It is not any muscle flexing." Patel told PTI. Srinivasan had put up the issue for the "first time in the history of the BCCI as a Full Member of the ICC. He has worked out very good details and very good options," Patel said.

"President Srinivasan, since last year, was looking into the financial details of ICC. He has made a private study about what could be the contribution of the BCCI into the revenue stream of ICC. On the basis of that, some formulae have been discussed among us. His own acumen as a businessman has also helped us."

"Srinivasan met the CA top boss and discussed India's concerns about what he thought should be the profit-sharing model. The moot point of discussion was that India generates close to 75 per cent of the income for the parent body. Therefore, we are well within our rights to demand a greater share of profit," a BCCI official told PTI on Monday.
"It is a matter for discussion among the members, rather than the (ICC). It will go to the full members and then it will go to the complete committee, but we are quite sure (of a positive response)," he said.
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Post by Guest Wed 04 Dec 2013, 7:51 pm

odi's start tomorrow, should be a cracking tour!

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Post by msp83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:59 pm

Srinivasan is a downright disaster. Can't help but hold on up to September!.

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Post by msp83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:07 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:If both Ashwin and Jadeja are fit, then I'd have one of them taking the spinning duties. Ojha to come in as injury cover only. Don't think Ojha can offer much more than control on the South African tracks, Jadeja might be better at it, and of course Ojha is not good enough to bat anywhere other than 11.
Isn't that exactly what we needed from our spinner in SA? Not sure I'd trust Ashwin for control. Gets rattled way too quickly. KP did that and AB might too.
The Australian series was Ashwin's first and so far only test assignment away from the sub-continent. Even Graeme Swann averages close to 50 in Australia, Harbhajan Singh was hopeless downunder and even the great Murali struggled there. It'll be unfair to judge Ashwin by his away record from that single series. KP got to him in India, but KP on his day can take on the very best of them. The England series wasn't Ashwin's finest hour with the ball. Ojha was better than Ashwin in that series, but not by a country mile. When all 3 of them played against Australia, Jadeja looked the best in terms of offering control, and he brings a lot more to the table than Ojha does. So either Ashwin or Jadeja for me, I wouldn't even have selected Ojha for this 2 match series......
Err, Ojha averaged nearly half of Ashwin in that series. If thats not outbowling by a country mile, I don't know what is. England is the only decent batting lineup Ashwin and Ojha have bowled too (apart from Aus in Aus, where Ojha didn't get a chance), so obviously that series needs to be significantly taken into account. How can you write off Ojha overseas without even giving him a chance? Ashwin has shown time and time again that he is rattled by an onslaught. Clarke and Ponting did that in Oz, and KP in India. I can see why you don't want Bhajji back but don't really understand the opposition towards Ojha.
Ojha was the better bowler in the England series. But Ashwin's career average is 3 runs better than that of Ojha, and he strikes every 56 balls while Ojha needs on average 11 more balls for each strike. Ojha can't bat, Ashwin is more of a bowling all-rounder rather than a tailender. Since there is not a world of difference in their bowling records, Ashwin's much superior batting abilities have to be given preference.

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Post by msp83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:14 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:I won't complain if the management eventually go with Yadav. But Bhuvneshwar has an opportunity to nail the position in the ODIs. I'll be furious if they play Ishant based on potential.
there is too much of sameness without Yadav...medium to fast medium seamers......Yadav brings in skiddy pace
Unfortunately, pace is the only thing that he brings. Bhuvi is far more skillful, more accurate and can bat a bit as well. I don't understand the obsession with pace. Yadav is averaging 70 in this year's Ranji Trophy. And when did Yadav bowl 155 mph btw?
Pace does matter a lot. Accuracy is very important for any bowler, but being accurate at 125 KPH may not trouble many. Bhuvneshwar is quicker than that, but Yadav's pace is not something to be scoffed at. I am sure Shanky would know that Yadav plays for Vidarbha, and they play their home game on a horrendous flat road. Yadav hasn't been doing great in the away games either I know, but we  have to cut him some slack for playing on that road and still possessing the will to bowl fast. And your statement that Yadav doesn't bring anything other than pace is quite unfair. Would agree to some extend if you had said that about Varun Aaron. Yadav can bowl a testing bouncer, and can generate reverse swing at high pace. And unlike Aaron, he can get the new ball to seam a bit as well. Bhuvneshwar certainly is a lot more skilled with the new ball, but at present, at this stage of his career, he doesn't offer much with the older ball.
Don't think reverse swing would be a factor in SA. I'm not sure how you can say Bhuvi doesn't offer much with the older ball when he hasn't even been given a chance with it. And I am not sure what pitch has got to do with some of the filth Yadav has bowled this Ranji. If you bowl in the wrong areas, you'll get hammered everywhere regardless of how quick you are.
In none of the home tests that Bhuvneshwar played, he never got the old ball to reverse that much. The subcontinent is the place to show your skills with reverse. SA might not offer too much for reverse, but it remains to be seen how long will Bhuvneshwar would be able to find conventional movement with the ball. Bhuvi is a skillful bowler, Yadav is quick and can reverse it. As I said, I won't complain so long as the 3rd seamer is one of them rather than the deadweight they are carrying for no reason. But let me tell you, I won't rule that possibility completely.

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Post by Guest Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:21 pm

The spinner issue is intresting...in most sides Ashwin would probably get in at no7, and play as a genuine all-rounder..this is a big series for him, he does need to prove himself away from home with the ball...also those ripping into Ojha, are you mad? The most unluckiest spinner in the world along with Monty that they are stuck behind their respective off-spinners..Ojha would get into most test sides..

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Post by msp83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:43 pm

Don't think anyone is ripping into Ojha. Just that Ashwin or Jadeja is a better bet outside the subcontinent and that comes as overall packages. Ojha is not clearly a better bowler than Ashwin, but Ashwin is in a different league with the bat.

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Post by Guest Thu 05 Dec 2013, 8:49 am

apparently rain likely in Jo'burg today Sad

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Post by Guest Thu 05 Dec 2013, 11:36 am

intresting... no Graeme Smith...Du kock opening the batting with Amla, also no specalist spinner in the south africa side...

here are the sides

India: Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli, Yuvraj, Raina,Dhoni,Jadeja,Ashwin,Bhuvi,Shami,Mohit

SA: Amla,Dukock,Kallis,AB,Miller,JP,Parnell,Steyn,Morkel,Tsotsobe

India win toss and bowl, SA are 2-0 after 1 over.

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Post by msp83 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 3:43 pm

Quinton de Kock scored his 2nd ODI hundred (135) and AB de Villiers (77 of 47) and JP Duminy (59 not out of 29) smashed it around at the end to power South Africa to an imposing 358-4 in their 50 overs. Mohammed Shami took 3-68 but Mohit Sharma and Bhuvneshwar Kumar disappointed. Spinners R Ashwin and Ravindra Jadeja also couldn't make much of an impact.

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Post by Guest Thu 05 Dec 2013, 4:20 pm

Morkel should have had Kohli, but DeKock's dropped a sitter!

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Post by msp83 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 4:22 pm

Terrible times for the Indian batsmen with the new ball. Steyn and Morkel are spitting fire on a pitch that isn't all that lively. They are quick, they are hitting the right areas and Shikhar Dhawan is already gone. Virat Kohli is still there, but only just, thanks to a dropped catch and Rohit Sharma hasn't looked comfortable. India 29-1 in the 9th over.

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Post by Guest Thu 05 Dec 2013, 4:36 pm

Kohli took a blow to the ribs from Morkel, which will really hurt tomorrow!

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Post by msp83 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 5:23 pm

India 96-4 after 21. South African bowlers all over them at the moment.

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Post by msp83 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 6:18 pm

India sliding to a big defeat. The captain is batting on 35 to try and delay the eventuality. India are 169-6, Dhoni is on 35.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 05 Dec 2013, 6:44 pm

the batsmen were always gonna struggle and take time to acclimitize....but the bolwing and seam / pace bolwing especially let us down.

--and the singular reason was the lack of pace. On a pitch like this.,...you need to bend your back and hit the deck hard to extract seam movement and it's difficult to negotiate movement because it is with bounce...if you are able to get it.
The lack of pace of Mohit and Kumar exposed them...whil the only guy who could bowl at 140kph...shami was the one who picked wickets.

--and so Yadav will do well and I am sure Ishant's dig the ball in style will be better than kiss the top type Kumar and Mohit.

--had the bowlers done their part of restricting SA to about 270-280ish.....then the batsmen could have batted with assurance, inning building and not lost their wicket in panic and pressure of a mountain of runs.....as evident by their two run outs and shot selection.
They may have still lost but not by a mile as they set to lose now.

--India would have done well to forget win...but batted more assuredly setting themselves 270 as a practise target for test matches.

--India would have als done well to have Pujara and Vijay in the ODI squad...it would be hard on them to come with nothing but a 2 days game which will be on a gentle pitch, against some medium pace bowlers.
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Post by KP_fan Thu 05 Dec 2013, 7:13 pm

and I believe these 3 ODIs will prove conclusively that Yuvraj's eye is not good enough for this kind of pace oupled with bounce and movement off the seam
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Post by msp83 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 7:52 pm

A 141 run thrashing for India, Dhoni the only batsman who posted a meaningful score. Rohit Sharma left a few well, played and missed consistently, had a strike rate of 41 in scoring 18 runs and then was ran out by Raina. Dhawan played some good shots against Tsotsobe and looked relatively comfortable while he was out there. But he didn't face Steyn at all, and got out to Morkel's first ball, unable to control an attempted pull shot. After giving an early chance, Kohli looked pretty good for his 31, but he couldn't play the big knock. Yuvraj looks to be struggling, and I am coming round to KPF's view that he looks done at the highest level. Raina ran Rohit out and then managed to run himself out, and it wasn't quite a comfortable stay out in the middle. Dhoni played a good innings, a determined effort from the captin, but this was way beyond him without any real support. Both Jadeja and Ashwin got starts, the latter seemed unlucky when he was given out, and both looked better than both Yuvraj and Raina.

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Post by msp83 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 7:54 pm

Umesh Yadav should get a game or 2 in this ODI series, and if the test pitch is going to be anything like this, he has to play ahead of Bhuvneshwar. You need pace to be effective on this track, that was pretty clear from today's game.

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu 05 Dec 2013, 8:17 pm

Bhuvi looked really off colour, didn't he? Maybe Yadav should play after all. Give him the next couple of ODIs to assess his form. Maybe play Ishant too in the ODIs as he is unfortunately in the Test squad and needs some practice should he, god forbidden, be required for the Tests. Yuvraj and Raina are simply not good enough in these conditions. Pujara and Rayudu need to come in.

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Post by shivfan Thu 05 Dec 2013, 10:31 pm

Condolences to all Saffer fans on the passing of Mandela....
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Post by Gerry SA Fri 06 Dec 2013, 1:37 am

I'm sorry but I enjoy watching India play. This modern India side is full of passion and talent to match.

But aside from Shami Mohammad - Sharma and Kumar where pathetic.

Yuvraj Singh getting picked for sympathy is also ridiculous.

Get Yadav in. He's fast. Get Pujara in. Proper batsmen score runs in any format.

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Post by Gerry SA Fri 06 Dec 2013, 1:38 am

Dale Steyn what more can be said of him?

Absolute genius bowler.

And to think morons claim Anderson is as good as Steyn...not in a million Sundays...

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Post by KP_fan Fri 06 Dec 2013, 8:03 am

Gerry SA wrote:Dale Steyn what more can be said of him?

Absolute genius bowler.

And to think morons claim Anderson is as good as Steyn...not in a million Sundays...
Steyn is one of the best in history.........Anderson is a good bowler....clever , versatile and amazingly fit....but more conditions dependent with his 135kph......more like Zaheer Khan
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Post by msp83 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 2:50 pm

James Anderson is a mighty fine bowler, no doubts about that. But there is clear daylight between Dale Steyn and the next best. Steyn is a ones in a lifetime bowler, absolute class, pure genius.

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Post by msp83 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 2:52 pm

Following the passing away of one of humanity's greatest leaders, Cricket South Africa has asked for the government's advice on the future of the series.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafrica/content/story/697689.html

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Post by kingraf Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:08 pm

The second Odi will go on as scheduled.
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Post by KP_fan Sat 07 Dec 2013, 10:49 am

kingraf wrote:The second Odi will go on as scheduled.
Mandela's end as I read at a number of places was expected after his prolonged illness..hence the nation was prepared to use this occasion to celebrate his life and times.

hecne cancelling any planned events do not make sense
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 9:09 am

India playing with the perfect team today.....Rahane in for Yuv......Yadav in....and Ishant in....well maybe one more game for Mohit was OK ...however.....conditons perfect for Ishant's dig in sligfhtly short off a length...must fore at 135+ and close to 140
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 10:01 am

it's a slow outfield.......and while Indian's have bowled with potentcy and pace.....yadav hitting 147kph.....shami 145kph and kept the SA scoring under check.....i would say...honors with SA still because they have not lost a wicket
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 10:04 am

ishant..know for his pace...has not touched 140kph though
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 10:09 am

quinton de kock is a seriously talented batsman...the same athletic hand eye coordination, that we have seen from Gibbs and ABDV....averages 56 in FC cfricket.
and he keeps wickets too
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 10:39 am

looks like the ball is not coming off the pitch also.......and that's why Dhoni is using a number of slow bowlers now......and use the faster , bowlers with full length in the death overs
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 11:44 am

thre is some turn and now around the 35th over.........in PP Indian spinners are pulling it back.
ain't as easy to stroke this wicket,.
not as much pace and bounce as in the last game or as expected.

wicket on whihc India should feel more comfortable batting.

can they pluck a few mor wickets and pull the SA total to about 260
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 12:42 pm

--India has come back well-...may not necessarily win..but certainly should be competitive.


--chasing 5.6 RPO...they can afford to bat normally at 4.5RPO for 35 overs....and then accelartae to finish using the fire-power we have in dhoni, raina and jadeja.

--the dual startegy of slow off the pitch bowlers slowed SA down and fast in the air seamers at 140+ didn't allow SA to blast runs at the end like they did in the last game.
although Yadav did go for plenty in the last over...bad choice for last over.......10 runs too many

--Jadeja seems a better spinner than Ashwin and I believ India should play 6 specialistbatters + 3 seamers + Jadeja....rohit can do part time spinning
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 1:20 pm

Ind should aim to be 170 in 35 and about 200 in 40 overs......for no more than 4 wkts down
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 1:34 pm

2 down India and seamers for SA are getting decidely more movement then Indians got
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Post by Gerry SA Sun 08 Dec 2013, 2:02 pm

Dreadful batting by the Indians.

Trying to trash Steyn, Tsotsobe and Morkel isn't going up work.

Rahane unlucky, terrible decision by umpire Illingworth.

Once again I'm asking whys India's Test number 3 not in this side?

On a Proteas plus side, Hashim Amla finally scored an international century on his home ground.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 3:00 pm

lack of practise and acclimitization showing on Indians.

positive intent and self belief notwirhstanding......they need time in the middle.

also Dhoni's restrictve formulas don't work...280 might appear chaseable in India but is too much here...espeically with batsmen not used to the pitches.

India will be accilitized by the start of 2nd test.
so if these learn their lessons well...they can draw the series 1-1 by performaing to potential in T2

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Post by kingraf Sun 08 Dec 2013, 3:57 pm

The #1 team in the world has been picked apart... That is all
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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 5:26 pm

After struggling to get going in international cricket, Quinton de Kock is now starting to emerge into a very serious player as his talent always suggested he would. If he continues this form, he could soon come in for du Plessis or Duminy in the test side and relieve AB of the wicketkeeping responsibilities and let him focus on his batting alone.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:09 pm

^SA commentators were suggesting his wicket keeping is not clean and polished enough yet to be a test match quality.
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Post by KP_fan Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:42 pm

in all the post match interviews Dhonis is not able to say what he would like to...that his team has absolutely no acclimitization to the very foreign conditons because of pig-headed stubbornness of Srnivasan.


so he fl sounds fluffy and waffly in his post match comments
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Post by msp83 Sun 08 Dec 2013, 10:10 pm

KP_fan wrote:^SA commentators were suggesting his wicket keeping is not clean and polished enough yet to be a test match quality.
AB anyways wasn't a regular keeper before the England series, and his keeping is OK, nothing special. If du Plessis continues his poor form with the bat, think they should give de Kock an opening and divest AB of the gloves.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 09 Dec 2013, 2:08 pm

i have no idea how strong the SA invitation XI is.
bringing forward the only practise game by one day is not bad...India get one extra day to plan and practise.

India’s two-day warm-up match against a South Africa Invitational XI at Willowmore Park in Benoni has been advanced by one day.

According to the original schedule, India were to play the match from December 14, but with the funeral of Nelson Mandela, the former South African president, set for December 15, the match will now start on December 13. This means that the Indian team will have only a one-day gap between the final One-Day International at Centurion (December 11) and the warm-up match.

Cricket South Africa announced that Stephen Cook, the Lions opening batsman, would lead the Invitational XI that includes several players who have had success in domestic cricket in recent times.

“As always, these matches against international touring sides offer the opportunities for players to show their worth at a higher level,” said Vinnie Barnes, coach of the SA Invitation XI. “Several of them showed outstanding form in the opening round of Sunfoil Series fixtures. Stephen and Stiaan van Zyl both scored centuries while Temba Bavuma fell just short. Beuran Hendricks, Hardus Viljoen and Stephen Harmer were among the leading wicket takers.”

SA Invitational XI squad: Stephen Cook (captain), Temba Bavuma, Andrew Birch, Simon Harmer, Beuran Hendricks, Reeza Hendricks, Eddie Leie, Chris Morris, Rilee Rossouw, Yaseen Vallie, Stiaan van Zyl, Dane Vilas, Hardus Viljoen
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Post by Guest Mon 09 Dec 2013, 5:41 pm

south africa squad for tests

http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2013-14/content/story/698767.html

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Post by msp83 Wed 11 Dec 2013, 12:03 pm

South Africa won the toss and are batting. Jacques Kallis, Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel aren't playing. Henry Davids comes in, and Imran Tahir is getting some game time before the tests.
India have dropped Ajinkya Rahane after one game in which he made 8 before being given out wrongly. Poor Ajinkya is being wronged by everyone. Yuvraj Singh is back. Can't understand the selections with Team India any more. the likes of Rohit Sharma and Ishant Sharma are given license to fail day in and day out, perhaps Ajinkya should chhange his name to Ajinkya Sharma?

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Post by msp83 Wed 11 Dec 2013, 12:04 pm

SA are 25-1 in the 7th over. Shami got Amla, but de Kock is still there.

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Post by msp83 Wed 11 Dec 2013, 12:06 pm

It wasn't a good ball that got Hashim, he hit a full toss straight to Yuvraj, it was very nearly a no-ball for hight......

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