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2nd test Adelaide

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Post by KP_fan Fri 29 Nov 2013, 02:54

First topic message reminder :

all the reprots coming out indicate that this will be a "typical English pitch "
batting friendly, dry, offering reverse and a lot of turn in 2nd inning Alan Border thinks.
 
that wouldn't be what Aus would have liked..and would like to alter whatever bit they can in the end......althouhg I understand it is harder to alter a drop in pitch.
 
Teams:
 
I would like to make a fairly early call on what the team changes might be....not based on what I would like to see but rather..reading into the mind  of the two coaches.
 
--Eng might  bring in Stokes and Bresnan for Trott and Tremlett.
Bresnan is a favorite of Flower mentality.......a batsman and a bowler packed into one.....how much he can hold against the Aussie pace as a batter will be tested....bowling....well he picked 4-fer in some junior game yesterday...in the best of times he struggles to be consistently above 132kph and now coming back from injury...dunno how how fast he can be but certainly can't do worse than Tremlett's 122kph.
 
Stokes I know not much about other than career stats on CI....but he might be picked on the rationale that he is not much less of a batsman than Ballance and Bairstow and can bowl also...spreading the workload over 5 bowlers and cushioning the undercooked Bresnan.
 
--Aus might bring in Faulkner for Bailey.....as he can reverse the ball, was in no less a blistering form with the bat in India then Bailey.....and is a proper brisk fast medium bowler who will cushion the work-load on their genuine pacers preserving them for rocket fast WACA the next test.
This is where Watson's inability to bowl 15 overs a day is putting more pressure on him.....and should Faulkner have a good game and Watson not......he is at risk of being edged out....not immediately but sooner than later.


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Post by KP_fan Thu 05 Dec 2013, 20:34

Here is how I read the game the way it stands at the end of D1:

--England's strrength has become suprisingly / irnonically, dry, spinning pitches.....althouhg they are shy in acknowledging

--and the moment they saw a pitch as good as they could have themselves  "designed"..
Eng threw their best foot forward....i.e playing two spinners ...and the moment they played two spinners...they needed a 3rd seamer cum batsmen...their choice was between Bresnan and Stokes and the latter was deemed a better batsman.
I am surprised they dumped Woakes..he looked good with his 85mph pace and batting average of 46 in his only test.
He deserved a run.

--and the moment Monty clean bowled his first wicket the right handed smith with the gem of a ball......you knew this pitch will assist spin...and Eng have gotten the combination right..... will be shy to acknowldege Monty looked better than Swann.

--and Eng have Aus as tight on the ropes as they could.
The talk of Aus getting away due to dropped catches is an exaggerated one.....and sounds more like self pity......only Carbery's was the sitter..other two were half chances that happen on about 3 out of 5 days of every test.

--and Eng could very well bowl Aus out for 350 odd tomm at best.....BUT
the problem for Eng is that have to bat 4th ( whihc is where they were lucky batting first in their summer).

Eng would struggle to get to 350 without a KP or Cook hundred even on this pitch....and that just about brings parity in first inning.......they would still need to overhaul atleast 250-270 that Aus would set for them in 2nd inning.....and that would be tight and would need again KP/ cook  plus one other top order to get them 70ishi n 2nd innings.

--so to run a close race and finish within +/- 30 runs or +/- 3 wickets...they need Cook / KP to fire...that's the upside.

--and should Cook / KP fail to fire big..it's a defeat of the magnitude +/- 120 runs.


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Post by Pal Joey Thu 05 Dec 2013, 20:53

Yes Guildford, Australia could/should have been 7 or 8 down for under 250 runs on that 1st Day.

That would have made it England's day decisively. Conversely, Warner and Watson looked to be going along fine until their dismissals (Warner took a chance and lost, Watto fell very ordinarily... poor technique for that one ball) Smith's dismissal was very disappointing too but Monty was bowling beautifully for a while there and had Smith bamboozled. So both sides can probably rue their opportunities.

Maybe I'd have England half a head in front, FWIW (we'll know better after today of course).

As the weather (and hopefully the match) hots up over the next few days - batting conditions will favour the batsmen more and more. Interesting to note, however, that there are some balls which have seemed to defy the pattern - either some extra bounce or unexpected movement. (We will need to wait and see how our bowlers go - it might be tougher bowling conditions on day 3, say - but perhaps they will be able to extract a little more out of the pitch, make an early breakthrough and expose Root early.

Also looking forward to see Siddle and Lyon get into action.

Sids said the other day how he has spent the past year preparing for another challenge in Adelaide (after his exhausting effort v SA last year) and considers himself very lucky to have not been overworked in Brisbane - and therefore feels fresher than this time last year. He's in better physical and mental condition apparently. Not sure about 17 bananas though... surely 5 or 6 max... too much potassium there!

As for Nathan Lyon - I'm just hoping he can continue his form. He was very tidy in Brisbane and more to the point - more accurate than Swann. Those foot marks now beginning to appear may well assist Swann and Monty today but they should also help Lyon - especially in the 4th inning.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 05 Dec 2013, 21:14

Aus ahead.

Runs on the board, 

England batting last .

Aus 60-40 up

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Post by Pal Joey Thu 05 Dec 2013, 21:18

Are you about to make a bet then, oakey?

I know how your mind works..... evil! Laugh 

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 05 Dec 2013, 21:40

Aus are even money mate..

So no I can't take that bet it's not enough value.I have backed England at 9/2

Best odds of the lot and I can't back a draw with these two batting sides..

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Post by Duty281 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 21:56

Australia set to be about 100 short on a plum pitch. Mind you, they were in Brisbane, and that didn't matter too much!

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Post by NickisBHAFC Thu 05 Dec 2013, 22:04

Simply need early wickets.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 05 Dec 2013, 23:35

Obviously, England would want to win this test but if they can come out of it with a comfortable draw with an improved showing with the bat it steadies a rocking ship, restores a bit of belief and snatches a bit of momentum away from Australia.
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Post by guildfordbat Thu 05 Dec 2013, 23:42

guildfordbat wrote:Hi Linebreaker - you may have seen that Mike's been gently teasing me recently about my traditional approach to winning the toss.

Despite Mike's best efforts to educate me otherwise, I still tend to identify with the advice given to David 'Bumble' Lloyd when he assumed the Lancs captaincy in the mid-1970s. Lloyd was told by Cyril Washbrook, Lancs' first ever professional captain in the 1950s, ''You have two choices on winning the toss. Bat or think about it and then bat.'' Very Happy 

Admittedly, I don't go quite that far but do try and understand why Washbrook formed such an entrenched view.
SKY have just shown key bits of the first day including Lloyd's introduction (which I missed at the time): ''This is a no brainer. Win the toss and bat first.'' I suspect Cyril Washbrook nodded in approval as he looked down. Smile

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Post by guildfordbat Thu 05 Dec 2013, 23:50

Apologies for my appearing to morph into David Lloyd (or vice versa) but he's just endorsed my own take on the first day's play: ''I thought that Australia yesterday just shaded it.''

Means very little of course (even if that view is right) with 4 days still to go but I'm comforted to hear it's not just me and mysti with that take on things. More than happy though to be proved wrong.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 05 Dec 2013, 23:58

Well the bookies also agree..

I think we can turn it around . But that is what is needed. A significant change in our approach and application when we bat.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:03

Mysti - what are the odds please?

I'm not a betting man but would be interested to know how the bookies see it - they're right more than they're wrong! Cheers.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:06

Even money aus win
7/3 draw
4/1 England win

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:10

Cheers, mysti.

4/1 might not seem bad odds as things currently stand but once you take into account we'll be batting last ....

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Post by NickisBHAFC Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:27

Well this is getting tough to watch might go to bed.

Clarke with some superb batting.

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Post by NickisBHAFC Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:30

Get Monty the pervert out of the attack!!!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:30

Gotta take Monty off, he's getting tonked
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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:33

Yep good start by aus..


I think jimmy can get something going soon..

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:47

I pray to wake up to Cook and Carberry with fifties but I fear I'll be waking to Clarke still going...

See you on the other side...
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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 00:59

Anyone but Monty would have caught that.,.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:07

A few small points on the opening hour:
- Clarke's batting against Monty was first class (after the first ball... small margins...). His footwork is a treat to watch, but also how he doesn't just go for the big shot, he plays the angles brilliantly also.
- Clarke looked in a bit of discomfort with his running a couple of times, possibly his hamstring?
- Carberry is quick to the ball, but his throw is wildly inaccurate. He missed a run-out at backward point because of that.
- England got their fielders in the wrong place. Panesar at long-on to Swann is not a good idea, nor is it at fine-leg when the short ball is a good wicket option. A more alert fielder may have gotten to Haddin's miscue.

Obviously a great first hour for Australia, who are now in the driving seat. England will hope the drinks break brings a wicket, preferably a few. Tough to win once Australia get past 400...

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Post by Born Slippy Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:11

Another drop - although a toughie. Got to take all of these chances to have any chance of limiting Australia even to 400 or so now.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:15

Yes, I thought Haddin had gone only to see Panesar fail to react instantaneously and the ball drop annoyingly just short of him.

400 currenty looking comfortably on as Clarke nears his ton and Haddin his fifty.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:22

Why no slips at all for Stokes? He's got genuine pace. Always a balance between going for wickets and keeping it tight but the field seems wrong to me. We're going to have to get one of these two out very soon anyway to stay in with any chance.

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Post by Gerry SA Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:31

Wheels falling off for England here.

Bell drops a rather straightforward bat pad off Pup.

Then Stokes gets Haddin caught behind, only to be a no ball.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:32

When it's not going for you......


There are wickets out there though ..

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Post by Gerry SA Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:34

mystiroakey wrote:When it's not going for you......


There are wickets out there though ..
TBH bowling a no ball. You get no sympathy from me.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:36

Nor me . Not talking about stokes though

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:40

We haven't had any luck but, there again and more to the point, we've hardly earned any.

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Post by Gerry SA Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:41

Pup's love affair with the Adelaide Oval continues.

6th century on this ground, equally the legendary Ricky Ponting.

Pup averages 110 at Adelaide...better than The Don(averaged 100)...

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:43

100 added so far in this session without loss. Almost certainly significant in line with several posts at the end of day one.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:49

That win for England is fading from sight.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:51

Not going to blame the selectors for picking two spinners. But in hindsight it was only gonna work if we won the toss...

Well played aus though.

I would rather go sleep but my sleep pattern is messed up due to staying up last night .

I will endure the pain for a bit longer.

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 01:58

mystiroakey wrote:That win for England is fading from sight.
Yes. 450 certainly looks on. Maybe even 500 if these two continue to stick around. That would need us having to get over 300 just to avoid the follow on. I heard Shaun Udal on the radio before play today saying we needed a first innings lead of 150!! Shocked 

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Post by guildfordbat Fri 06 Dec 2013, 02:02

Great session for Australia. Too often, England weren't on the money.

Night, folks.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 02:04

night

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Post by Pal Joey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 02:09

Guildford, re: Shaun Udal - Tell him he's dreaming... Smile

Great morning for Australia on a superb batting wicket. Keep going lads!

Gerry - my heartfelt condolences on the passing of Nelson Mandela. rose

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Post by alfie Fri 06 Dec 2013, 02:11

Brilliant session for Australia. Not much for the bowlers - half chances not being taken : as I suggested last night , it is now looking like 500 or more...

Forget an England win (although even 500 at Adelaide doesn't always make you safe) , and just hope they can bat properly this time despite the scoreboard pressure and get up to approximate parity , by which time a draw would be presumably assured.
If they could do this , the series would remain very much alive - I do not subscribe to the view that Perth is an automatic Australian win. But if they fold here , disaster looms.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri 06 Dec 2013, 02:12

Well yesterday I said the first session was obviously crucial. And equally obviously it couldn't have gone much better for Australia. As guildford said, 450 looks very much on, possibly 500. It's very very hard to win tests from there.

Not sure the Panesar pick is the issue.

Clarke batted beautifully to be fair. Haddin took his chances. Australia just look much the more positive team.

I thought Cook had a poor morning. Fields were IMO too far on the defensive side. If you don't think slips are going to work, then try two short covers, or a bat-pad or something. It seemed too often like England were just waiting for a mistake rather than trying to force the issue. To compound this I thought Cook delayed bringing Stokes on for too long (easy to say in hindsight as Stokes looked just about England's most dangerous bowler, but the extra pace did hurry the Australians, and I thought about 20 minutes before Stokes eventually came on that he was worth a try). More importantly, Panesar at long-on and long-leg on the hook was a poor error. And may well have cost England a wicket.

I know everyone raves about Carberry's fielding, but for me he looks a notch below the better fielders in this side.

Stokes bowled well, after his first over which was too short. I'm not sure about his angle in at the end of his run-up (it seems to me he doesn't quite get his alignment right), but the rest of his action is strong and repeatable. It was a nice piece of bowling that would have had Haddin but for the no-ball; incidentally I'm not a fan of the retro-active check (and never have been) - for me, the impact it has on the game (it's not quite the same as getting a wicket off a no-ball called in real time, because you have a much longer elation at the wicket, only to deflate quickly and drastically) far exceeds the impact which a couple of centimetres either way should have. I thought Botham's pontificating ("important lesson" etc.) was predictably silly.

England will have to bat and bat very well in their first innings now. It's not impossible, but Australia are now definitely on top.
With that I am too going to catch some sleep. Night all.

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Post by Gerry SA Fri 06 Dec 2013, 02:26

Linebreaker wrote:Guildford, re: Shaun Udal - Tell him he's dreaming... Smile

Great morning for Australia on a superb batting wicket. Keep going lads!

Gerry - my heartfelt condolences on the passing of Nelson Mandela. rose
Hug 

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Post by kingraf Fri 06 Dec 2013, 03:55

Clarke gone for a well played 148. Australia have posted a huge total, on a pitch which is offering a bit of turn. Surely England cant collapse on a deck like this?
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Post by kingraf Fri 06 Dec 2013, 04:03

England need to get Johnson out of here asap. Not so much for this innings, but rather to stop him siphoning some confidence, which could lead to a troublesome Mitchell with the ball
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Post by kingraf Fri 06 Dec 2013, 04:06

and he's gone. Johnson out for five
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Post by Pal Joey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 04:06

Thanks Raf. Wink 

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Post by kingraf Fri 06 Dec 2013, 04:13

Sorry LB. Put the mockers on him good there.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 06 Dec 2013, 05:01

So at Tea Australia are in command at 516 for 8. England failed to take key chances and paid for it dearly and now if the declaration comes or Australia are bowled out then England MUST perform with the bat. If they flop again the urn could be heading to the Aussies. A score of below 400 again and I'd back Australia to win and take a 2-0 lead and I do not see England recovering from that. England can only hope they get it right and the match peters out into a draw - at least that scenarion instills a little more confidence and belief in the batsmen for the tesys that are yet to come. I thought Ben Stokes did well today all things considered and if he can weigh in with a big score he could cement himself a place in the team.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 06 Dec 2013, 05:44

England's torment ends as Australia finally declare on 570 for 9. It is now key that England bat big and they will hope to get through to the close of play with no wickets down.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 06 Dec 2013, 05:48

As the England batsmen pad up it is clear that another batting collapse is neither an option or acceptable. The pitch is still a beauty to bat on and if Aussie tail-enders are so at ease hitting sixes then it is clear this pitch is still ideal for batting. No excuses now England.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Fri 06 Dec 2013, 06:09

Calamitous start for England. Captain Cook plays around a Johnson delivery and is bowled for 3 and England are 9 for 1. Is that urn slipping away?
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2nd test Adelaide - Page 5 Empty Re: 2nd test Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey Fri 06 Dec 2013, 06:10

Great bowling again from Johnson. Too hot to handle it seems.

Pal Joey
PJ
PJ

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2nd test Adelaide - Page 5 Empty Re: 2nd test Adelaide

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