Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'something'

[Crimey]

First topic message reminder :

A place to discuss things all Premier League.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If he continues at a rate of 3 every four games? Id take him over Defoe, but whether I'd say hes worth taking as a fifth striker I cant answer, we might not need one. Walcott can be the emergency fifth striker if somehow the other four cant play

[mystiroakey]

Wow , we had a Lot of chances today.

Pulis . Respect..

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Hooper is certainly improving. But unless England are gonna play two up top I wouldn't take him. Not very effective up top by himself (so far from what ive seen)

[mystiroakey]

Rooney, Sturridge, Walcott, welbeck and lambert are ahead.

So he is probably 6th or 7th(if Defoe starts playing more games)in the pecking order

But of he keeps banging them in he may move up.

[JamesLincs]

love gary hoops, always been a fan. he is lethal

[Holymiky]

I was excited at the start of the season to see how Hooper got on in the Premier League and i am excited to see how the rest of the season goes for him.

Olly what do you think of him so far?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I was excited at the start of the season to see how Hooper got on in the Premier League and i am excited to see how the rest of the season goes for him.

Olly what do you think of him so far?

Certainly clinical. Needs some work on his touch. Not good up top by himself. Clever movement, he'll always score goals just has that nack

[Ent]

Removing the staff was a horrific decision. Those special bonds created over years just evaporated over night. No wonder the players probably are not buying into the new regime.

De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Carrick, Fellaini, Januzaj, Valencia (just because of work rate n variety of positions), Welbeck (long term core) along with Rooney & RVP. However, no-top 4 means you risk losing Rooney. The rest of the squad are expendable or old.

Moyes needs to build from that. I'm sure a rebuilding phase was going to happen but I'm sure it was going to be done, knowing a Top 4 & European football was achieved. Now that is an uncertainty, makes life very difficult.

I said this about the backroom staff pre season and people called me all sorts.

Coming home to roost now.

This season is a write off, let's concentrate on developing things for next year I.e jones, zaha, januzaj.

By next season could have a top class centre half, a wonder kid creative wideman and a very tricky winger fully bedded in the team.

Instead we will chop and change chasing things and rely on big signings in the summer that won't materialise

[Guest]

Ent, Jones has to be a permanent centre half surely?

I think he'll be a legend in that position myself. And it's his preferred place also.

[Ent]

Yes, he is suffering because we have a terrible midfield.

If love to see him at centre half consistently and maybe 3-4 times a season at dm.

Currently he is at a crucial development stage and instead of playing in one position he alternates between rb, cb and cm.

[Ent]

A note On mourinho - wether he knows it or not yet he has gotten used to having a side with one of the greatest players ever in it - with ronaldo he wins 6-3 tonight.

Might take him a season to tighten up and realise a goal a game players aren't that common.

[mystiroakey]

Possibly ent.

Ronaldo , like Suarez this season can mask over a lot of cracks

[mystiroakey]

Palaces last 5 games has only been bettered by Newcastle and Arsenal

[Guest]

Palaces last 5 games has only been bettered by Newcastle and Arsenal

Your next 5 games look rather tough Myst.

4 points from that lot will be a decent return. Hope you do it, love to see the underdog do well.

[mystiroakey]

Chamack looks ok, Jerome looks very busy and strong.

The defence is working its socks off. 1 goal concealed in 5.

The midfield off course is the biggest issue. Jedanick , Bolaise and Williams are good talents for the lower reaches of the pl , top end championship but we have no natural CM, 

We lack quality, but not fight.

2 signings in the window and I believe we can stay up. They have to be midfielders..

Murray will be back from injury soon and with Jerome and the Moroccan  legend   Our strike force isn't bad.

Bannan does look ok , but we need one or two players that can really pass and spread play in the middle and dictate the game. Even other low ranked pl teams have an ability to retain possession sometimes. We seem ok bursting forward and fighting, but ask us to retain the ball and we are the worst in the pl.

[NickisBHAFC]

Zaha looked shocking when he came on for United yesterday.

[mystiroakey]

Not exactly fair to judge him on 20 mins.

But if they want to loan him back to is on that basis, awesome !!!

He would keep us up

[mystiroakey]

Anyone watching sky sports news..

Players filmed talking about getting yellow cards on purpose for spot betting!!

[Crimey]

Downing's been left with near on 20 stitches in his calf to achilles apparently. I think the difference is Flanagan went for the ball, Nolan didnt.

Yeah, Flanagan's was just a poor tackle, Nolan's was malicious. Thought his reaction by grinning was pretty poor as well, I'm hoping he was apologising to Henderson when he went up to him afterwards.

[NickisBHAFC]

Anyone watching sky sports news..

Players filmed talking about getting yellow cards on purpose for spot betting!!

It's disgraceful. Millions of people myself included would dream to have there job. They have the best job and yet they sacrifice there career for some little cash. Bring back the death penalty i say.

[mystiroakey]

Yep true.

They need to go to jail- We need zero tolerance on this. They need to not only be banned from pro sport but also need a custodial sentance

[NickisBHAFC]

Very much agreed. 

Onto football matters

Fulham 2-1 Villa

Arsenal 2-0 Everton

Me thinks today

[mystiroakey]

A real test for arsernal today.

2-1

Fulham 1-2 Villa

[compelling and rich]

never a pen that, he bumps into the villa player then goes down and its a foul?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Not a pen for me. Worst thing for Villa is that Berba has decided he wants to play

[Crimey]

Fulham need this win, Villa have got a lot of work to do to turn this game around.

Aston Villa are a very confusing side this year, they're capable of excellent results but also terrible ones as well. Clearly vulnerable, I wouldn't rule them out getting dragged into the relegation zone if they don't find some consistency.

[Crimey]

Not a pen for me. Worst thing for Villa is that Berba has decided he wants to play

Expect he's trying to drum up some interest in him at January.

[Crimey]

Steve Sidwell, Chelsea's old number nine, has more Premier League goals this season than their current one who cost £50m.

Shocking that.

[owen10ozzy]

Funny how a month ago pundits and a lot of fans alike believed Torres was on the verge of recapturing his form!  I think people are still clinging onto the notion that he can't possible shot to pieces...sadly the truth of the matter is that he is; game has gone to pot and he has no idea how to get it back.

He for me shows the definition of a truly world class and just a very very good striker, someone who can adapt their game throughout injuries. He lost his acceleration and that ability to get a step on his defender and now he hasn't a clue....even worse, even on the odd occasion he does get ahead of his man he doesn't no how to score!

He makes the Shevchenko & Carrol signings look like fabulous bits of business; and one of those has been on the injury table most of the time!

[compelling and rich]

to be fair there has been many strikers who have failed to deal with losing pace, think giggs has to be the best example of someone who has learnt to adapt and change with his body.

be interesting to see how ronaldo and messi adapt when they start to slow down

[owen10ozzy]

Oh of course compelling; it's not a slight on Torres...but modern day footballers and how they are defined in general. You'll find a lot of people 10 years from now claim Torres was a World Class striker...for me he doesn't fall into that category. He was a very good striker and nothing more.

Owen, Bergkamp, Henry...they are World Class strikers...all 3 showed an ability to adapt be it due to age or injuries!

[compelling and rich]

thought of owen and couldn't decide which category he was in, he still knew where the back of the net was but was never the same player once he loss that yard of pace. think he never got close to replicating his Liverpool form due to injuries and loss of pace

bergkamp never had any pace in the first place so didnt need to adapt as much, similar with the likes of sheringham who went on to play on forever. henry is a great example, think anelka did well as well. both of whom early careers were all about pace but developed into top class forwards

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'd disagree. Torres was a world class striker, but he lost attributes that made him world class. You can be World Class for seasons, and it is no harm for a player to use outstanding pace as an attribute. Hes lost it mentally anyway, his finishing used to be fantastic. The way to prove how good he was is to look at opinion of him now. He isnt a bad player, but he just isnt the fantastic talent he was.

[westisbest]

well that was a d readfull first half.

time to turn it round lads.

[westisbest]

Message to Lambert.

Maybe you play Lowton yeah, he is a right back after all.

Must have had a falling out.

[owen10ozzy]

I'd disagree. Torres was a world class striker, but he lost attributes that made him world class. You can be World Class for seasons, and it is no harm for a player to use outstanding pace as an attribute. Hes lost it mentally anyway, his finishing used to be fantastic. The way to prove how good he was is to look at opinion of him now. He isnt a bad player, but he just isnt the fantastic talent he was.

No arguments from me Ziggler...he was World class for maybe 3 seasons in total, 04-05 Atletico, 07-08 & 09-10 for Liverpool were his 3 best seasons for me as he showed lethal touch in front of goal not just in the league but also in Europe.

It has more to do with the fact when looking back on a players career I probably have higher expectations than most when grouping players as World Class; Very Good etc etc. 3 season isn't enough to put someone into the World Class bracket...especially when you factor in the fact he doesn't have much else to his game than scoring (granted that's his job as a striker, but to make the leap you in need to bring other things to the table). As I said, also don't think he has adapted his game since the injuries...something which can be done if you have a truly great footballing brain.

[NickisBHAFC]

SunSport Now ‏[ltr]@SunSportNow[/ltr]1m
Arsenal team v Everton: Szczesny, Jenkinson, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Arteta, Wilshere, Ramsey, Ozil, Cazorla, Giroud

SunSport Now ‏[ltr]@SunSportNow[/ltr]1m
Everton team v Arsenal: Howard, Oviedo, Distin, Jagielka, Coleman, Mirallas, McCarthy, Barry, Barkley, Pienaar, Lukaku

[owen10ozzy]

thought of owen and couldn't decide which category he was in, he still knew where the back of the net was but was never the same player once he loss that yard of pace. think he never got close to replicating his Liverpool form due to injuries and loss of pace

bergkamp never had any pace in the first place so didnt need to adapt as much, similar with the likes of sheringham who went on to play on forever. henry is a great example, think anelka did well as well. both of whom early careers were all about pace but developed into top class forwards

Think his passion for the game went Compelling; but only need to look at his exploits at Madrid, and even Newcastle and Man Utd when given the chances to see how good he still was at finishing. He went from being a striker who relied upon his turn of pace to get through on goal, to one who knew his way around the box as well as a lot of players from the past; his movement in and around the 6 yard box in his latter years was as good as the likes of Fowler & Cole etc.

Anelka is a very good shout and I would put someone like Van Persie in this category to; never lighting but had pace and a physicality to match most..with the injuries he has lost much of that but other parts of his game have come on leaps and bounds. Movement within the boxer, heading ability, ability to drag players away from the play.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Can someone tell me the Arsenal and Everton teams please, I havent seen em yet

[Fernando]

my bad last comment i saw was about Torres 

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Seems to me to follow much of last years formula. Villa's youth makes them inconsistent. They're grown a bit more from last year, but still remains.

Well played Scotty Parker, he has been easily their best player from what ive watched this season.

I was kidding  

[westisbest]

Well pretty peed off with not just the result, but the way we played.

Utd home next sunday. Another defeat then.

Fk sake.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

My word

[J.Benson II]

You'll find a lot of people 10 years from now claim Torres was a World Class striker...for me he doesn't fall into that category. He was a very good striker and nothing more.

I cant agree with that mate. Torres at his prime was easily one of the top forwards in world football. A world class player without a shadow of a doubt.
As you've said though, he's a shot player now. He's had plenty of time to recapture his old form and has been unable to do it (save for a few games). Chelsea will get rid of him this summer.

[Guest]

  What a plum.

Seriously avid..

[owen10ozzy]

You'll find a lot of people 10 years from now claim Torres was a World Class striker...for me he doesn't fall into that category. He was a very good striker and nothing more.

I cant agree with that mate. Torres at his prime was easily one of the top forwards in world football. A world class player without a shadow of a doubt.
As you've said though, he's a shot player now. He's had plenty of time to recapture his old form and has been unable to do it (save for a few games). Chelsea will get rid of him this summer.

When he has retired though do you think he will be looked back upon as a World Class player though? Or will he fall into the very good category as a player who was decent and had a couple of 'world class seasons'. At Atletico Madrid I would argue he had one truly World Class season; the rest of the time he had good seasons, scored goals and was rightly thought as of a great prospect. He came to Liverpool where he flourished...3 seasons where he was fantastic, 2 of which he looks truly sensational in. Since then he has nothing.

So in a career spanning 11, approaching 12 years I would say he has had 3 where he has been truly World Class. Not enough to stick him in with the likes of Henry, Bergkamp, Del Piero etc....even Shearer was better than him over the span of his whole career in terms of being a World Class striker! (sure that one will get a few people talking)!

[mystiroakey]

Everton bossing the game so far.

Gareth  

[Guest]

Arsenal v Spurs has just come out in the FA Cup draw for those that are interested.

[NickisBHAFC]

Arsenal been very poor so far.

[mystiroakey]

Arsenal haver woken up..

Taken there time about it though

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