Boxing Myths?

Was reading about James Jeffries feats and found them very hard to believe.

Seem like the guy was more myth than man.

Stuff like he was super strong, run the 100 yard dash in 10.5 seconds, 6ft high jump, do his long runs with a deer on his back, dropped 100lbs in weight to fight Jack Johnson.

Now while some of this could be true it made me think of other myths in boxing which people believe.

But boxing is full of myths that take on a life of there own and then people believe them to be true.

What are examples of these?

Here are some that I can think of.

Willie Pep won a round without throwing a punch.

Buster douglas was a 42/1 underdog.

Dempsey did not want to fight Wills.

Ali took a pumpelling from Foreman on the ropes till the KO.

Ali had 5 minutes to recover from the Cooper knockdown to reaplace his glove

Bitter, aren't you?

Dempsey's gloves were loaded v Willard ( discredited. )

Tyson's downward spiral began with the death of D'Amato. ( D'Amato died a year before Tyson won his first title. )

Greb and Walker had a punch up outside a bar on Broadway the same night they fought for the middleweight title. ( Now considered to be no more than myth. )

Greb used to drink heavily during training. ( He deliberately visited bars, where he would drink what appeared to be alcohol but was, in fact, soft drink, in order to lull opponents into thinking he was out of shape. )

Liston was murdered..

Liston threw the Ali 2 fight....

Both myths

HumanWindmill wrote:Greb used to drink heavily during training. ( He deliberately visited bars, where he would drink what appeared to be alcohol but was, in fact, soft drink, in order to lull opponents into thinking he was out of shape. )

I had never heard this one before brilliant mind games.

The one that comes to mind for me is that Manny Pacquiao is the best fighter of his gneration.

Don't have sex before a fight, watch me.

Can't be a myth if you can't prove it didn't happen which you cannot, bitter about being shown as a liar

Jones going a round without getting hit, according to compubox this is true but when watching the Pazienza fight it's abundantly clear he hit gets hit about 7/8 times in what was the final round.

prettyboy

Just quietly mate, for someone so for having those 2 threads you do name drop both fighters a helluva lot on other threads...

Is there any need for little jibes that will only invite the arguement to degenerate into the same tosh?

Myth

Willard's cheekbone was shattered in 12 places, broke his nose, and his jaw in 13 places had 8 teeth knocked out plus two fractured ribs. After the Dempsey fight.

Apart from here when have I name dropped them on other threads?

It was a joke.

Rocky M is p4p one of the best heavies ever.

Windy, you've just reminded me of one of Greb's stories which is a particular favourite of mine; the way he 'tricked' the world Middleweight title away from Johnny Wilson. Greb had already something in the region of 240 fights, and some thought his best days may already have been behind him - Wilson included, according to accounts of the time. Greb bumped in to Wilson beforehand and led him to believe that he'd been doing his training in speakeasies and night clubs, and also paid some people close to him to expand on the myth that he'd been heavily drinking. Wilson bought in to it all and turned up expecting an easy night's work, but instead Greb was actually in the shape of his life, and won with something to spare.

Back to the article. D4, a couple of those you've listed aren't really myths, in fairness. The Vegas odds on the night of Douglas-Tyson were indeed 42-1. The one regarding Pep is still hotly disputed to this day, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there.

I'd like to add Johnson apparently 'taking a dive' against Willard; it may not have been disproved one hundred percent, but like the case of Dempsey's 'loaded gloves' there is an overwhelming amount of evidence which goes against it, and I do think it's simply a myth that has snowballed over time. On top of that, I'd suggest the myth of Duran knocking out the mule with a single punch. Makes for a great story, of course, but these days Duran himself has all but confirmed that it's been blown out of proportion.

Drinking large amounts of soft drinks cant be particularly good for keeping in shape either though. Basically pure sugar.

azania wrote:Rocky M is p4p one of the best heavies ever.

What? p4p best heavies? Eh?

Az, seeing as you seem to be the only one on here who considers the heavyweights in p4p terms when ranking them then hardly a myth.

Tyson/Douglas is very true, the latter was deemed such an underdog only one company would offer odds on the fight.

manos de piedra wrote:Drinking large amounts of soft drinks cant be particularly good for keeping in shape either though. Basically pure sugar.

I didn't necessarily mean ' soft drinks ' in the accepted sense, manos. I meant non - alcoholic. Besides, if he had been out of shape he didn't do too shabbily, did he ?

The fact remains that his partying and drinking during training was a myth. Perhaps, next time, I'll try to get the Perrier Water manufacturer's brand name to avoid confusion.

Always found it interesting that Evian is naive spelt backwards...

With regard Jeffries, the man was indeed a phenomenol athlete capable of great physical feats.

In fact, prior to his bout with Johnson most of his team had been marvelling over the sheer athleticism and physical abilities Jeffries possessed. Interestly, it was the ever astute Jim Corbett who was part of Jeffries training team that noted his concern that Jeffries had spent far too much time simply getting into great physical shape but not spending enough time sparring and working on technique and sharpness.

Union Cane wrote:Always found it interesting that Evian is naive spelt backwards...

I have the same interest with the word t.i.t. (damn swear filter, what if i want to talk about blue titties in my garden eh?!), most bizarre

Eiboob?

Union Cane wrote:Always found it interesting that Evian is naive spelt backwards...

Able was I ere I saw Elba.

HumanWindmill wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Drinking large amounts of soft drinks cant be particularly good for keeping in shape either though. Basically pure sugar.

I didn't necessarily mean ' soft drinks ' in the accepted sense, manos. I meant non - alcoholic. Besides, if he had been out of shape he didn't do too shabbily, did he ?

The fact remains that his partying and drinking during training was a myth. Perhaps, next time, I'll try to get the Perrier Water manufacturer's brand name to avoid confusion.

Tap water would do fine

Would agree with you there Lion, too much emphasis was placed on weight lose rather than tactics/technique, he lost a lot of weight leading up to the Johnson, not sure if it was 100 pounds though but it wouldn't have been far off.

manos de piedra wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Drinking large amounts of soft drinks cant be particularly good for keeping in shape either though. Basically pure sugar.

I didn't necessarily mean ' soft drinks ' in the accepted sense, manos. I meant non - alcoholic. Besides, if he had been out of shape he didn't do too shabbily, did he ?

The fact remains that his partying and drinking during training was a myth. Perhaps, next time, I'll try to get the Perrier Water manufacturer's brand name to avoid confusion.

Tap water would do fine

Then I'll endeavour to locate and identify the reservoir from which it came.

HumanWindmill wrote:

Union Cane wrote:Always found it interesting that Evian is naive spelt backwards...

Able was I ere I saw Elba.

Sit on a potato pan Otis.

very good Union.

Union Cane wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Union Cane wrote:Always found it interesting that Evian is naive spelt backwards...

Able was I ere I saw Elba.

Sit on a potato pan Otis.

Swap God for a janitor, rot in a jar of dog paws.

Union Cane wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Union Cane wrote:Always found it interesting that Evian is naive spelt backwards...

Able was I ere I saw Elba.

Sit on a potato pan Otis.

A car, a man, a maraca.

And now I'm going to stop, out of respect for D4's thread.

Scottrf wrote:

Union Cane wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

Union Cane wrote:Always found it interesting that Evian is naive spelt backwards...

Able was I ere I saw Elba.

Sit on a potato pan Otis.

Swap God for a janitor, rot in a jar of dog paws.

Abba

Rowleys is the best so far

rise to vote sir

The Galveston Giant wrote:Rowleys is the best so far

Very kind of you to say so, also comes with the added bonus of being topical following, as it does, hot on the heels of the Eurovision Song Contest.

Are we not drawn onward, we few, drawn onward to new era?

That the "Black bottle" had any impact on the Pryor-Arguello fight.

Nice touch Rowley, nice touch.

Boxing Myths?

Well Audley Harrison claiming he can box. He made a fair few million out of that.

There is an old story that after about the fourth round against an opponent Sam Langford came out for the next and shook hands, his perplexed opponent was alleged to have said "Why are you shaking hands, this isn't the last round" to which Sam responded "It is for you" before knocking him cold

According the Sam's biography this story is very probably apocryphal. Someone the other day said they had seen this creidted to a number of other fighters also which adds credence to the idea it probably didn't happen.

John L Sullivan's antipathy toward Jack Johnson is a myth.

Sullivan was most definitely a racist, and made no effort to conceal it. However, this did not prevent his admiring Johnson's ability as a fighter, and nor did it impede his liking for Johnson as an individual.

Sullivan it was who wrote the day after fight report concerning the Johnson v Jeffries fight for the ' New York Times, ' in which he was quite effusive in his praise for Johnson, both the fighter and the man.

Corbett was supposedly much more racist than Sullivan. There are reports of him screaming racial obscenities at Johnson throughout the Jeffries bout and being openly racist in the build up.

manos de piedra wrote:Corbett was supposedly much more racist than Sullivan. There are reports of him screaming racial obscenities at Johnson throughout the Jeffries bout and being openly racist in the build up.

Very true, manos.

When the fateful fifteenth arrived, and Johnson was about to deliver the coup de grace, Corbett changed his tune and begged Johnson not to hit Jeff again.

"A man, a plan, a canal - Panama" is quite a decent palindrome, i always thought.

One popular myth is that Earnie Shavers was an even more formidable finisher of a hurt opponent than George Foreman. Not only Larry Holmes, but also Ron Lyle and Bernardo Mercado got off the canvas to stop Earnie, while he also had Ali hurt, of course, and let him off the hook. Big single punch hitter, yes. Not the killer instinct of some, though.

88Chris05 wrote:Windy, you've just reminded me of one of Greb's stories which is a particular favourite of mine; the way he 'tricked' the world Middleweight title away from Johnny Wilson. Greb had already something in the region of 240 fights, and some thought his best days may already have been behind him - Wilson included, according to accounts of the time. Greb bumped in to Wilson beforehand and led him to believe that he'd been doing his training in speakeasies and night clubs, and also paid some people close to him to expand on the myth that he'd been heavily drinking. Wilson bought in to it all and turned up expecting an easy night's work, but instead Greb was actually in the shape of his life, and won with something to spare.

Back to the article. D4, a couple of those you've listed aren't really myths, in fairness. The Vegas odds on the night of Douglas-Tyson were indeed 42-1. The one regarding Pep is still hotly disputed to this day, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt there.

I'd like to add Johnson apparently 'taking a dive' against Willard; it may not have been disproved one hundred percent, but like the case of Dempsey's 'loaded gloves' there is an overwhelming amount of evidence which goes against it, and I do think it's simply a myth that has snowballed over time. On top of that, I'd suggest the myth of Duran knocking out the mule with a single punch. Makes for a great story, of course, but these days Duran himself has all but confirmed that it's been blown out of proportion.

Think that 42/1 was a myth no casinos were offering it.

D4 it is something of a myth because it suggests all casinos were offering these odds when the truth is most did not have a line on a Tyson victory. However the Mirage did genuinely offer these odds, although this was a bit of a publicity stunt it remains you could have gone to the Mirage and got a bet on Douglas at 42-1, although I don't think they had many takers, if any.

A lot of Douglas' camp claim to have bet on him having seen how good he looked in camp but whether this is actually the case or guys trying to look wise after the event is open to debate

D4thincarnation wrote:Think that 42/1 was a myth no casinos were offering it.

http://www.google.co.uk/#q=mirage+42%2F1+douglas&hl=en&biw=996&bih=604&sa=X&ei=OHbSTZmENsqr8AO0wOX-Cg&ved=0CBkQpwUoCQ&source=lnt&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A31%2F02%2F1990&tbm=nws&fp=eeb5a357bb7d5580

Myth: Gary Mason's flaccid schlong measured 13 inches
Reality: It measured 12.5 in its flaccid state

D4thincarnation wrote:Think that 42/1 was a myth no casinos were offering it.

Not so, I'm afraid. No such odds were being offered in Tokyo, but as I said the Vegas odds that were given were certainly 42-1, or at least the ones available were. Here's an extract of Jimmy Vaccaro, a respected Vegas line-maker who set those odds at the Mirage Casino that night.

http://www.gamblingonlinemagazine.com/interviews.php?articleID=684

rowley wrote:D4 it is something of a myth because it suggests all casinos were offering these odds when the truth is most did not have a line on a Tyson victory. However the Mirage did genuinely offer these odds, although this was a bit of a publicity stunt it remains you could have gone to the Mirage and got a bet on Douglas at 42-1, although I don't think they had many takers, if any.

A lot of Douglas' camp claim to have bet on him having seen how good he looked in camp but whether this is actually the case or guys trying to look wise after the event is open to debate

Someone asked for a bet on Tyson at Mirage and they gave him odds of 1/38 and he lost. The 42/1 story probably came from that.

Dunno D4, the odds maker is probably a better source than guessing. "So, eventually it got up to 42-to-1 and by adjusting numbers to get two-way action"

Scottrf wrote:Dunno D4, the odds maker is probably a better source than guessing. "So, eventually it got up to 42-to-1 and by adjusting numbers to get two-way action"

Probably Scott? I'd bet my girlfriend and her family against most of what D4 has to say. Seldom actually deals in facts, is a bit pathetic really as he'll probably argue that the bookie was wrong and D4 is in fact right......

Manny Pacquiao is an 8 weight champion