January Transfer Window 2014

First topic message reminder :

I'm gonna open this up now as I contemplate watching the shower of poop I'm about to watch.

What strong rumours have we heard? What do teams need? Where do you think the money will be spent?

I shall start you off with rumours surrounding Lambert maybe considering West Ham and similarly West Ham going to Spurs cap in hand to request a loan of Defoe or Adebayor (sources not so tight haha)

Tom Ince is a player that worries me. If he comes to palace fine. If he stays put fine. If he goes to a top team we could kill another talent.

Luckily his dad is managingbhkm and knows the score.

Will Hughes is also in the same boat at the moment.

mystiroakey wrote:Tom Ince is a player that worries me. If he comes to palace fine. If he stays put fine. If he goes to a top team we could kill another talent.

Luckily his dad is managingbhkm and knows the score.

Will Hughes is also in the same boat at the moment.

Tom Ince will never be good enough.

Hughes will get snapped up in the summer I'd imagine

We've been linked with Will Hughes, maybe replacing Cabaye in the summer. I guess everything depends upon Derby's promotion. Price will be ridiculous, something around £10m+.

Not sure about Ince, he should of just gone to the EPL with Cardiff & proved what he could do or not do. Now, he's just in limbo, stagnating & his stock falling while Blackpool struggle.

Tom ince will go somewhere this window. And I am hoping palace. If a big team buys him that's what will kill hin

But if he stays he won't neccesarily stagnate. Look at lallana and huddlestone today..

Lallana is 25 and huddlestone 27.

The likes of Rooney, bale, ferdinand and I'm sure many more all moved to bigger clubs as teenagers and have done alright.

The likes of Moses and routledge just aren't good enough.

you are missing the point- they both went to top clubs and couldnt/cant get a game..(moses and routledge)

They are however and were good enough to get into mid table teams to play week in week out.

and yes huddlestone and llanana are older yet have still progressed but stayed at lower level teams- that was the point!!

Understand the point being made first then type!!

Huddlestone's had one good game against a Fulham side that made 6/7 changes

one good game.

He has been good all season mate.,

Moses got plenty of games at Wigan, he only moved from there at 21.

He isn't very good.

Routledge isn't very good.

Huddlestone is having a decent season but overall isn't very good.

Lallana is average, in reality a bit of a hype job. Took him to age 24 to play pl and gain some recognition. Whilst bale, Walcott, oxlaide chamberlain all left as teenagers, are full internationals and have achieved much more than him.

It is about your talent, temperament and work rate. By all means let talents kick around In the lower divisions for 6, years plus before they get a token international call up.

you are really struggling to comprehend the point arnt you ent.

routledge went to totenham , moses went to chelsea.

off course they are/were good enough to play at lower level; teams. But yes they went to teams were they wernt good enough to play at.

What is it you cant understand?

The cricket's really got to you today hasnt it Mysti!

You're kind of both right. The better players don't get ignored, their talent is too good. But for some they just sit and waste away. Parker's move to Chelsea is always my prime example.

On Moses, he did get 23 games in his year at Chelsea and played in some crucial Europa League ties. Whereas Routledge never showed very much at anywhere till he joined Swansea, and still has been the lesser of himself, Dyer and Sinclair before.

Olly wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-transfer-news-wes-2985369

Think I might curl up in a ball and cry if we sold Wessi

Would welcome wessi with open arms.

Get it sorted Paul.

What point are you making?

If these guys aren't good enough what impact does it have on the England set up?

If you are just saying average players struggle to get games for good sides I'd have thought that was obvious.

The point has clearly past you by Ent.

The point is the players have got worse from promising positions by being grabbed up by top teams and then they dont get to play. Many players just need to play and not get stunted then they will keep progressing . Many top teams have killed potentially good england players by taking them at a young age just so another team cant have them. If you cant see the problems then you wont start today. The more players we have playing the better england would be. Its not rocket science but it has passed you by.

You may one day realise what its like to see your talents wasted at a top team and then never playing. The way Man u are going you will be in Palaces position in the not to distant future

mystiroakey wrote:
You may one day realise what its like to see your talents wasted at a top team and then never playing. The way Man u are going you will be in Palaces position in the not to distant future

They wont though

Well if they dont he will never understand the point will he. Because he only sees things from United's eyes

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The cricket's really got to you today hasnt it Mysti!

You're kind of both right. The better players don't get ignored, their talent is too good. But for some they just sit and waste away. Parker's move to Chelsea is always my prime example.

On Moses, he did get 23 games in his year at Chelsea and played in some crucial Europa League ties. Whereas Routledge never showed very much at anywhere till he joined Swansea, and still has been the lesser of himself, Dyer and Sinclair before.

you clearly dont know about Routledge do you. The guy was a talent and then went to Tottenham but that stunted his development.

Scotty going to chelsea isn't really a good example because he only was there for a year and then straight away went to a club on his level(newcastle) then he went up in a natural progression to Tottenham. The point is about the players that just stagnate at top teams

It's nonsense though isn't it.

For every player who didn't make it there is one that has become a top player.

Players who have a chance at wc squad who left smaller club for bigger club at young age.

Hart
Foster
Walker
Smalling
Jones
Glen Johnston
Carrick
Lampard
Milner
Henderson
Chamberlain
Walcott
Young
Sturridge
Rooney
Defoe

Then you have cole, Gibbs, welbeck, cleverly who started their careers at big clubs.

Players benefit from training with top players and gaining experience in elite competition.

If they move to a bigger side and can't get a game they aren't good enough and no real loss to the national side.

Our youth products don't get playing and don't make it either, falling down the leagues. Probably a lot more than palace have who go to bigger clubs and don't produce.

You say Routledge stagnated but he didn't, he was sent on loan to two premiership clubs when at Tottenham and didn't perform to a high enough level so he was sold on. He wasn't left in the reserves not playing, he was given a chance to prove himself and failed.

Do you want me to list the Spanish and german talents that are playing week in week out that would get in to the England set up.

Seriously what the heck are you talking about. we need more players playing!!!! we have loads of talent out there that never get a chance to play regularly enough!

And i have no idea why you are trying to have a dig at palace. Is not enough for you to have some success is it.

But English players are getting chances. Redmond, Berahino, Morrison, Stones, Barkley have all played loads of Prem football this season, just because Zaha isn't doesn't mean others arent.

Mysti you're really not making any sense pal

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You say Routledge stagnated but he didn't, he was sent on loan to two premiership clubs when at Tottenham and didn't perform to a high enough level so he was sold on. He wasn't left in the reserves not playing, he was given a chance to prove himself and failed.

he 100% stagnated- infact he got worse by going to Tottenham..

Not sure how your argument states he didn't!!

Olly wrote:But English players are getting chances. Redmond, Berahino, Morrison, Stones, Barkley have all played loads of Prem football this season, just because Zaha isn't doesn't mean others arent.

Mysti you're really not making any sense pal

I have talked about them , and all of them are at mid table or lower clubs! You are only backing up my point!

Well Smalling, Jones, Wilshere, Gibbs, Walcott, Ox (when fit), Sterling, Henderson, Cleverley, Townsend, Walker are all getting plenty of games at the bigger clubs

Olly wrote:Well Smalling, Jones, Wilshere, Gibbs, Walcott, Ox (when fit), Sterling, Henderson, Cleverley, Townsend, Walker are all getting plenty of games at the bigger clubs

I am talking about the wasted talent not the few that are playing.

and the whole thing that started this was sterling!

Sterling may get sidelined if Liverpool strengthen in that area- which seems mental to most because he has been a very good player recently for liverpool.

Well these guys aren't being wasted. If they're good enough, they'll play its fairly obvious.

Clubs don't waste talent very often, players do it themselves, ultimately they hold the cards.

Look at that Michael Johnson who used to play for City. Got plenty of chances to play but he's wasted them by being an idiot and is now retired.

Spain and Germany are better than England. Another revelation.

Who, genuinely, would have been a star only to go to a big club and not play and not develop?

Wasn't having a go at palace but the top teams have loads of players who don't make it who filter down the leagues, we just don't moan about it.

mystiroakey wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You say Routledge stagnated but he didn't, he was sent on loan to two premiership clubs when at Tottenham and didn't perform to a high enough level so he was sold on. He wasn't left in the reserves not playing, he was given a chance to prove himself and failed.

he 100% stagnated- infact he got worse by going to Tottenham..

Not sure how your argument states he didn't!!

He wasn't left in the reserves not playing, he was given an opportunity to prove himself at premier league teams, he had a couple of good games for Portsmouth and had a largely forgettable spell at Fulham.

All you do is moan Ent, Not sure what your point is. If you cant see a problem then i suppose its time to jog on(for both of us)

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You say Routledge stagnated but he didn't, he was sent on loan to two premiership clubs when at Tottenham and didn't perform to a high enough level so he was sold on. He wasn't left in the reserves not playing, he was given a chance to prove himself and failed.

he 100% stagnated- infact he got worse by going to Tottenham..

Not sure how your argument states he didn't!!

He wasn't left in the reserves not playing, he was given an opportunity to prove himself at premier league teams, he had a couple of good games for Portsmouth and had a largely forgettable spell at Fulham.

he went to portsmouth and played really well for half a season and then again thought he would get a chance at the Tottenham first team, then he was loaned out to fulham instead. His confidence was shot mate.

Glad to see him doing well eventually though

mystiroakey wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The cricket's really got to you today hasnt it Mysti!

You're kind of both right. The better players don't get ignored, their talent is too good. But for some they just sit and waste away. Parker's move to Chelsea is always my prime example.

On Moses, he did get 23 games in his year at Chelsea and played in some crucial Europa League ties. Whereas Routledge never showed very much at anywhere till he joined Swansea, and still has been the lesser of himself, Dyer and Sinclair before.

you clearly dont know about Routledge do you. The guy was a talent and then went to Tottenham but that stunted his development.

Scotty going to chelsea isn't really a good example because he only was there for a year and then straight away went to a club on his level(newcastle) then he went up in a natural progression to Tottenham. The point is about the players that just stagnate at top teams

I do know about Routledge, Mysti, I never rated him highly and I think hes shown at a host of clubs that he was never that great. So dont give me that. I'm sorry, I know hes Palace, but I didnt rate him much then and you are slightly clouded on your view of Palace lads. Spent about half his time at Tottenham on loan playing for clubs at a level a little above Palace.

The Parker example is mainly about how people are seen. Parker was considered something very good by everyone, goes to Chelsea and gets forgotten. Newcastle a year after but he has to first recover his form then second people have to recover from their hampered opinion of him.

I'm not moaning, just pointing out you are wrong.

Zaha is in a unique position at Man United, he was signed by Ferguson sent back to Palace on loan in which time SAF retires and Moyes takes over. Ferguson when he decided to sign him would have had a very clear idea in his mind what he wanted to do with Zaha just like he did with Smalling, Jones and the countless other english players we've had. I don't for a minute think his plan was to have Januzaj playing such a prominent role in the first team, probably would have sold Nani thus giving more opportunity to Zaha.

The spanner in the works is that Moyes is his own man and obviously had his own ideas and having not seen much of Zaha wanted to keep him around the first team to gauge a better idea.

For every player that fails there's another one who succeeds.

Ent wrote:I'm not moaning, just pointing out you are wrong.

how am i wrong? Nothing you have said is even relevant

And yes you allways moan. No one will dispute that one mate

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The cricket's really got to you today hasnt it Mysti!

You're kind of both right. The better players don't get ignored, their talent is too good. But for some they just sit and waste away. Parker's move to Chelsea is always my prime example.

On Moses, he did get 23 games in his year at Chelsea and played in some crucial Europa League ties. Whereas Routledge never showed very much at anywhere till he joined Swansea, and still has been the lesser of himself, Dyer and Sinclair before.

you clearly dont know about Routledge do you. The guy was a talent and then went to Tottenham but that stunted his development.

Scotty going to chelsea isn't really a good example because he only was there for a year and then straight away went to a club on his level(newcastle) then he went up in a natural progression to Tottenham. The point is about the players that just stagnate at top teams

I do know about Routledge, Mysti, I never rated him highly and I think hes shown at a host of clubs that he was never that great. So dont give me that. I'm sorry, I know hes Palace, but I didnt rate him much then and you are slightly clouded on your view of Palace lads. Spent about half his time at Tottenham on loan playing for clubs at a level a little above Palace.

The Parker example is mainly about how people are seen. Parker was considered something very good by everyone, goes to Chelsea and gets forgotten. Newcastle a year after but he has to first recover his form then second people have to recover from their hampered opinion of him.

Yes but in regards to Scotty- Him moving downwards oin a permanent to Newcastle was a great move for him. And well you can say what you want about Routledge but the truth is Tottenham thought he was a talent. He didn't play for a year(ok some of that was due to an injury) then he got loaned and played well. He then didnt leave or play for Tottenham, instead he was loaned to Fulham. Moving about like that and never getting a chance at the top club you signed for 3 years isnt going to help your confidence is it.

mystiroakey wrote:

Ent wrote:I'm not moaning, just pointing out you are wrong.

how am i wrong? Nothing you have said is even relevant

And yes you allways moan. No one will dispute that one mate

To Wayne routledge? No I suppose it wasn't.

Must just be my posting style.

Look mate the point being I would rather see more english players playing. We only have 30% players in the prem and many of them are bench warming at top clubs, when they could be playing at lesser sides.

You cant beat the experience of playing against quality. Playing amongst quality in training is one thing- but playing against it is also just if not more as valid.

Its a hard one to deal with, and the Premier League have screwed it up. Their squad rulings have forced teams like City to have English players involved. But they dont have to play. So teams like City are happy to have them as backup.

But it exists all over. Pulis is gonna choose Chamakh over Gayle.

Who are these bench warmers at the top clubs though Mysti and the thing is these players end up stagnating because of their own choices.

Look at Butland, turned down Chelsea because of first team opportunities but then joined a Stoke team with one of the leagues best goalkeepers in Begovic.

Pulis is going for Rhodes nad crouch

I cant see Chamckh getting a chance if we get those signings with murray also coming back.

But you are right. Gayle is palaces record signing. zaha was our record sale.

Guess what neither are playing!!!

Its not right

The English players simply need to be better and offer more value for money to clubs. Also I'm sure the home nations may skew those stats.

Exporting is also a problem, Italy, Spain and Germany only have around 50-55% nationals in their leagues but have many playing I other leagues. Very few Englishmen playing abroad.

Gayle is new to pl football, will take him time to adapt.

Or he could wait 6 years in the doldrums...

I think gayle proved what he could do with service, He won us 3 pts the other day v Villa.

But when you are a fighting team you cant afford players that cant hold the ball up.

Winning at Villa is nothing special.

Anyone can win there, as Sheff Utd are doing.

Jesus Christ.

Its FA cup westy.

I doubt you even want to win it! Your manager certainly doesn't care!!

I want us to win every game we play.

Would have loved a good cup run.

Pretty poor.

Nobody will want to come to Villa in this window, maybe a few that want to leave.

When i meant you i actually meant the club and players.

Your manager has made it pretty clear, and the result has proved his thoughts!

Palace win 2-0.