IRFU holding onto top players

First topic message reminder :

The IRFU announced the re-signing of Ireland Captain Paul O'Connell on a two-year deal this morning. O'Connell is the latest in a series of players to sign on with the Union. Sean O'Brien followed suit earlier in the week, joining regular international starters Rory Best, Donnacha Ryan, Conor Murray in renewing their central contracts in the past few months.

Jamie Heaslip was also reported by Midi Olympique this morning to be on the verge of resigning with the IRFU, although that remains unconfirmed at this stage- Toulon, I think, retain a strong interest.

A lot of doomsayers predicted we might suffer the Welsh fate after Sexton went but this season has been very encouraging in terms of guys committing their future to Irish Rugby. But with the new TV deal for the French clubs giving spending power to even the lower profile sides and the English clubs mulling over a 10% increase in the salary cap, can we maintain this in the long term future?

Notch wrote:Well, they love playing for Ireland. And Ulster. Thats a BIG factor no?

Maybe take a deep breath and step back from the brink here...

i am very calm indeed. maybe those who see any comment about irish rugby by someone not irish as inherently insulting and therefore wrong should be signing up for the zen classes?

Notch wrote:Well, they love playing for Ireland. And Ulster. Thats a BIG factor no?

Maybe take a deep breath and step back from the brink here...

there are many many reasons, as i mentioned. money, country, family, city, friends, in-laws (reason to leave), personal development, clean break, etc, etc.

but money is definitely a reason. to pretend otherwise is denying professionalism.

GunsGerms wrote:God bless America.

Now that's a F'd up tax system. I live in NYC; don't even get me started with the mess it is...

On the point, Quins as usual is trying to get us to say that money is the only thing that is important so we can rush headlong into his dream of a rugby system akin to Premiership Football where we are lucky, LUCKY!!!! to watch our local lads play for a foreign team in the Rugby Super Duper Money Cup.

The tax rebate is a factor for retaining Irish players but, having talked to several players over the years including a couple of top Irish players its honestly 3-4th on their list. These guys live and breathe the idea of playing for their province. They are local legends, their families are here, they are looked after by the IRFU; a host of tangible and intangible benefits. You know Quins, "Intangibles" they even appear on Balance Sheets sometimes... Once again, the Irish system doesn't seem fair to those outside of it. Doesn't seem fair when poor hardworking millionaire club owners in England and France can't buy our talent. Well they can jog on. The IRFU warts and all see that without a host of measures to protect our players we will move to a 3rd tier rugby nation and they are doing a brilliant balancing act right now.

Heard on the radio that Heaslip rejected Toulon and is about to re-sign with the IRFU. Itll be interesting to see if hes on the same as SOB

Should add a little more spice to the Quarter final

quinsforever wrote:

Notch wrote:Well, they love playing for Ireland. And Ulster. Thats a BIG factor no?

Maybe take a deep breath and step back from the brink here...

there are many many reasons, as i mentioned. money, country, family, city, friends, in-laws (reason to leave), personal development, clean break, etc, etc.

but money is definitely a reason. to pretend otherwise is denying professionalism.

No-one is saying it isn't mate. If the IRFU decided to stop paying the players, well, obviously they'd get taken to court and lose because of the many contracts they'd be failing to honour but the bottom line is all the players would leave. Similarly if they weren't competitive at all, whereas at the minute there is more money available elsewhere but its not enough to be the only factor in every players decision.

This thread was about exploring the reasons why not every Irish player is following the money although it's pretty obvious that a number of players are seriously tempted and Heaslip may yet join Sexton among the highly paid players in the Top14.

Good post wolfie but none of that changes the fact that the Ulster players don't get the favourable tax incentives that their South Korean...I mean Southern Irish colleagues do....and no amount of unethical and darn right illegal border hopping skulduggary that goes on regularly in border areas changes that.

Golden wrote:Heard on the radio that Heaslip rejected Toulon and is about to re-sign with the IRFU. Itll be interesting to see if hes on the same as SOB

Should add a little more spice to the Quarter final

Of course he's not going sure he runs a restaurant in Dublin - the IRFU should have called his bluff long ago... he probably came as a buy one get one free offer with O'Brien anyways .....   

fa0019 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:So in the eyes of some, Irish players electing to stay in Ireland for less money than they'd get on the continent are still the devils, because they've denied a free market the opportunity to work properly?

The Irish players are not satisfied with playing in a cotton-wool League, now they want to stall the development of the game on the continent by deciding to keep their Provinces competitive with European top sides rather than rushing off to the worm on the end of the line, which would mean they'd line out against their Provinces instead.  There is something rotten in the Irish psyche... there really is.
I think if one club offers you a bigger deal than another one, you should be legally compelled to accept the highest offer - or else the whole capitalist system ceases to be!  Anti capitalism IS anti competition and possibly anti European free trade agreement!!!

So you'd be forced to move because club London offers more then club dublin for instance by say 50000 euros?

So will this have tax implications, currency fluctuations, travelling costs, additional education expenses (say for family developed under separate language and system) and then the loss of things like family and friends support network????

Money is only one thing to consider when moving countries.

Em...there was a lot of tongue in cheek divilment in my paragraph, fa0019.  Never take what I say too seriously...unless the underlying message (that's so well hidden it can't be detected at all!!)  is a serious one

Keith Earls has signed a new two-year contract with Munster and Ireland; see https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE

Meanwhile, PRL announces a rise in the salary cap; http://www.rugbymedia.co.uk/?p=483

Notch wrote:Keith Earls has signed a new two-year contract with Munster and Ireland; see https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE

Gawd.... the IRFU will be burning money next .... the celtic tiger roars again ....

We might be burning euros in Ireland in the next decade or so, but I imagine that will mainly be too keep warm.

wolfball wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:God bless America.

Now that's a F'd up tax system. I live in NYC; don't even get me started with the mess it is...

On the point, Quins as usual is trying to get us to say that money is the only thing that is important so we can rush headlong into his dream of a rugby system akin to Premiership Football where we are lucky, LUCKY!!!! to watch our local lads play for a foreign team in the Rugby Super Duper Money Cup.

The tax rebate is a factor for retaining Irish players but, having talked to several players over the years including a couple of top Irish players its honestly 3-4th on their list. These guys live and breathe the idea of playing for their province. They are local legends, their families are here, they are looked after by the IRFU; a host of tangible and intangible benefits. You know Quins, "Intangibles" they even appear on Balance Sheets sometimes... Once again, the Irish system doesn't seem fair to those outside of it. Doesn't seem fair when poor hardworking  millionaire club owners in England and France can't buy our talent. Well they can jog on. The IRFU warts and all see that without a host of measures to protect our players we will move to a 3rd tier rugby nation and they are doing a brilliant balancing act right now.

A good handfull of Ireland players have been brought up on the traditions and values of GAA too where local identity and sense of community and duty to their community is a massive motivator for them. Guys like Tommy Bowe, Rob Kearney, Shane Horgan, Luke Fitzgerald, Dave Kearney, etc. all come from a GAA background. I think the popularity and influence of the GAA in Ireland has had an effect on attitudes and approaches in other sports popular in Ireland such as rugby.

While I guessing very few of the Ulster guys (aside from Bowe) have come from a GAA background they do also seem to have a very tight knit community spirit amoungst their team and fans.

Yes, I think thats something that is shared across the island of Ireland in general. People do have a great attachment to their communities and a great pride in where they come from. The GAA is a strong outlet for that, but it's not the only organisation which promotes a sense of community and belonging. I know they can be found in every part of Belfast, on either side of the sectarian divide.

People do emigrate from all over Ireland in massive numbers for economic reasons of course and have done for centuries but we do tend to bring our culture with us when we travel. The forced economic emigration of various generations has been a deep well of sadness in the history of Ireland.

I can fully understand why rugby players feel that way about their job, I feel I would feel the same way in their shoes

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Keith Earls has signed a new two-year contract with Munster and Ireland; see https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE

Gawd.... the IRFU will be burning money next .... the celtic tiger roars again ....

Maybe they will stump up some money for cosmetic surgery so Darren Cave can get a new face?

Haha!!!!!!

Maybe put Leo Cullen down for one too.

Give Darren BOD's face. He (BOD) is not going to need it professionally for much longer and it'll be good for team morale to see him line out for Ulster and Ireland next year - against all the odds.

I believe part of the deal for SOB was that he would be given elocution lessons so he speaks with a D4 twang and fits in better. He sounds too Munsteresqe (well some parts of Munster anyhow) to be really classed as a l'boy.

ME-109 wrote:I believe part of the deal for SOB was that he would be given elocution lessons so he speaks with a D4 twang and fits in better. He sounds too Munsteresqe (well some parts of Munster anyhow) to be really classed as a l'boy.

He isnt ignorant enough to be confused for a Munster person though so all's well.

ME-109 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Keith Earls has signed a new two-year contract with Munster and Ireland; see https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE

Gawd.... the IRFU will be burning money next .... the celtic tiger roars again ....

Maybe they will stump up some money for cosmetic surgery so Darren Cave can get a new face?

One with cheeks that go red like ROG's probably would help him get picked.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I believe part of the deal for SOB was that he would be given elocution lessons so he speaks with a D4 twang and fits in better. He sounds too Munsteresqe (well some parts of Munster anyhow) to be really classed as a l'boy.

He isnt ignorant enough to be confused for a Munster person though so all's well.

Its obvious he really would prefer to play for Munster...when he plays against us he is usually poor. Its in his subconscious that he is in the wrong team. He probably supported Munster....you know its true...

rodders wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Keith Earls has signed a new two-year contract with Munster and Ireland; see https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE

Gawd.... the IRFU will be burning money next .... the celtic tiger roars again ....

Maybe they will stump up some money for cosmetic surgery so Darren Cave can get a new face?

One with cheeks that go red like ROG's probably would help him get picked.

Well if that helps...cos his rugby isnt...  

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I believe part of the deal for SOB was that he would be given elocution lessons so he speaks with a D4 twang and fits in better. He sounds too Munsteresqe (well some parts of Munster anyhow) to be really classed as a l'boy.

He isnt ignorant enough to be confused for a Munster person though so all's well.

Its obvious he really would prefer to play for Munster...when he plays against us he is usually poor. Its in his subconscious that he is in the wrong team. He probably supported Munster....you know its true...

Very unprofessional approach for a Munsterman.   Not playing your best all the time?  Being selective about when you give your full tank of gas to the cause?  Wasn't there a big fight about all that stuff back in the good ol' days of Ireland "settle our differences" secret camps?  And wasn't it defined as a peculiar and exclusive Leinster disease?

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I believe part of the deal for SOB was that he would be given elocution lessons so he speaks with a D4 twang and fits in better. He sounds too Munsteresqe (well some parts of Munster anyhow) to be really classed as a l'boy.

He isnt ignorant enough to be confused for a Munster person though so all's well.

Its obvious he really would prefer to play for Munster...when he plays against us he is usually poor. Its in his subconscious that he is in the wrong team. He probably supported Munster....you know its true...

So curious the way it is an undeniable part of the Munster psyche to covet anything Leinster has. Its a bit like having a younger brother that follows you around everywhere.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:I believe part of the deal for SOB was that he would be given elocution lessons so he speaks with a D4 twang and fits in better. He sounds too Munsteresqe (well some parts of Munster anyhow) to be really classed as a l'boy.

He isnt ignorant enough to be confused for a Munster person though so all's well.

Its obvious he really would prefer to play for Munster...when he plays against us he is usually poor. Its in his subconscious that he is in the wrong team. He probably supported Munster....you know its true...

So curious the way it is an undeniable part of the Munster psyche to covet anything Leinster has. Its a bit like having a younger brother that follows you around everywhere.

He would be a handy bench option to have at the moment...thanks.

I think he would fairly easily nudge James feet for hands Coughlan or Peter lightweight O'Mahoney to the bench.

GunsGerms wrote:I think he would fairly easily nudge James feet for hands Coughlan or Peter lightweight O'Mahoney to the bench.

Nah thanks....we're good. Better off he helps Jamie (where are the cameras/contracts/lions tour) Heaslip, McLaughlin (one trick pony), Shane (serious looking but mediocre) Jennings or even the up and coming Jordi (my dad wanted me to be a soccer player) Murphy, or even Rhys (my dads famous) Ruddock in developing. Not to mention Dominic (the oldest up and coming seven in the world) Ryan...

He would be handy to have for the B&I QFs though...

This thread contains more waffle than the rest of the site put together.

It's so bad I'm tempted to sign for Toulon.

rodders wrote:This thread contains more less waffle than the rest of the site put together just one of my posts.

It's so bad I'm tempted to sign for Toulon.

Fixed that for you.

I always considered my posts to be quite succinct.

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I think he would fairly easily nudge James feet for hands Coughlan or Peter lightweight O'Mahoney to the bench.

Nah thanks....we're good. Better off he helps Jamie (where are the cameras/contracts/lions tour) Heaslip, McLaughlin (one trick pony), Shane (serious looking but mediocre) Jennings or even the up and coming Jordi (my dad wanted me to be a soccer player) Murphy, or even Rhys (my dads famous) Ruddock in developing. Not to mention Dominic (the oldest up and coming seven in the world) Ryan...

He would be handy to have for the B&I QFs though...

Envy is a shokkin ting. I can feel it drippin outa your post.   

What's Toulon's headphone policy?  Are they easy on it or agin it?  Is that the sticking point in Heaslip's negotiations?

Or are they just holding out for him to raise his trousers by a scientifically calibrated 2 and 3/4 inches?

I hear the poor guy was told to sign up or shut up by Toulon?? And the lad hasn't said a bleedin' word all week. No wonder the French are number one on my hit list this season. Now how many of them are on a Toulon team? How do you spot them?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I think he would fairly easily nudge James feet for hands Coughlan or Peter lightweight O'Mahoney to the bench.

Nah thanks....we're good. Better off he helps Jamie (where are the cameras/contracts/lions tour) Heaslip, McLaughlin (one trick pony), Shane (serious looking but mediocre) Jennings or even the up and coming Jordi (my dad wanted me to be a soccer player) Murphy, or even Rhys (my dads famous) Ruddock in developing. Not to mention Dominic (the oldest up and coming seven in the world) Ryan...

He would be handy to have for the B&I QFs though...

Envy is a shokkin ting. I can feel it drippin outa your post.   

Munster fans do envy and neediness like no other fans.

GunsGerms wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I think he would fairly easily nudge James feet for hands Coughlan or Peter lightweight O'Mahoney to the bench.

Nah thanks....we're good. Better off he helps Jamie (where are the cameras/contracts/lions tour) Heaslip, McLaughlin (one trick pony), Shane (serious looking but mediocre) Jennings or even the up and coming Jordi (my dad wanted me to be a soccer player) Murphy, or even Rhys (my dads famous) Ruddock in developing. Not to mention Dominic (the oldest up and coming seven in the world) Ryan...

He would be handy to have for the B&I QFs though...

Envy is a shokkin ting. I can feel it drippin outa your post.   

Munster fans do envy and neediness like no other fans.

Welsh fans?   

Wales? Neediness? Oh yeah.

Envy? NEVER!!!! Wales envying someone????? How could that be? They're the bestest there has ever been since the seventies and only some well placed meddling Irish refs have tarnished that record off and on over the years.

the welsh and irish fans deserve each other.

famous book by Sartre "Huis clos" has the memorable quote "l'enfer c'est les autres". never truer than eternity in a locked room of irish and welsh fans

 Ah well. We might deserve each other but the Welsh don't want to play with us no more. They want to kiss and a cuddle with their cousins of the East. Never trust a Welsh Celt, I say, they're always infected with Saxon cravings....

...just pondering that locked room..........hmmm, I'll bet one of the Welsh lads will have the key but won't have the gumption to know which pocket it's in.

The Irish,however, won't need the key as they'll charm a hole into the wall

   

I would imagine that while the tax breaks are good, a big part of the sale would be that I would guess that most people would prefer to stay with friends and family. Plus being centrally contracted they know that they will only play a limited number of games prolonging their career and allowing them to play to their peak.

France appeals to me for lifestyle and cash but you know that you will be playing big games week in, week out and I would guess that while they can write things into their contract they know that on a 50/50 call for the national team/squad the IRFU will probably go with the player that they see all the time, know how he is and so on.

Also signing these players will send out a good signal to the lower ranked players, unlike the situation in Wales....

When you look at Wales they aren't able to offer all of this, plus the current unrest must mean that you would not have to do a hard sale to persuade a Welsh player to go to France.

COS is right about the selling points of staying somewhere like Quins but the fact that the RFU won't pick players from France and have stuck to this must help given that the majority of his squad is young Englishmen.

Jamie Heaslip signs three-year deal with the IRFU and Leinster;

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/30545.php

So we've kept all our international players whose contracts were up. Great news. 

Well done to the IRFU  

Biggest chancer since ROG - how can he get a 3 year deal at 30? The IRFU need to start growing a backbone in these negotiations- agents are ruining the game.

Im sure the Munster brigade will be very disapointed Heaslip has signed on for a few more years but it is good news. Nice work IRFU.

rodders wrote:Biggest chancer since ROG - how can he get a 3 year deal at 30? The IRFU need to start growing a backbone in these negotiations- agents are ruining the game.  

Probably helps that he is the least injury prone player in the history of Irish professional rugby. O'Connell is 34 but got a 2 year deal. Three years for Heaslip is fair enough.

Golden wrote:So we've kept all our international players whose contracts were up. Great news. 

Well done to the IRFU  

Jaysus I love our rugby optimised tax system   

wolfball wrote:

Golden wrote:So we've kept all our international players whose contracts were up. Great news. 

Well done to the IRFU  

Jaysus I love our rugby optimised tax system   

Not as much as Bono does   

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:Biggest chancer since ROG - how can he get a 3 year deal at 30? The IRFU need to start growing a backbone in these negotiations- agents are ruining the game.  

Probably helps that he is the least injury prone player in the history of Irish professional rugby. O'Connell is 34 but got a 2 year deal. Three years for Heaslip is fair enough.

Word was he was only being offered reduced terms as well. He was the best paid player but it seems these days the irfu is cutting its cloth slightly. If he has accepted slightly less then I think an extra year is excellent value