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ind-v-nz...first test

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mystiroakey
GloriousEmpire
ShankyCricket
Sangakkara
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Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
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Biltong
Good Golly I'm Olly
Pal Joey
Gerry SA
skyeman
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Post by KP_fan Sun 02 Feb 2014, 6:59 am

First topic message reminder :

the tour practice game started and pandey ended up being the most potent and successful bowler.
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Post by skyeman Sat 08 Feb 2014, 12:09 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:I think what the NZ cricket team needs is a full character assasination of McCulum. Right from the top, blaming him, his ego and his disruptive influence for the state not just of this innings, or NZ cricket, but also the axial tilt of the world and the confounding nature of dark matter. He should be sacked forthwith in an embarrassing public statement and replaced with ... No wait! It was my English genes kicking in there.


Haha. did he text Dhoni?

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sat 08 Feb 2014, 12:10 am

skyeman wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:I think what the NZ cricket team needs is a full character assasination of McCulum. Right from the top, blaming him, his ego and his disruptive influence for the state not just of this innings, or NZ cricket, but also the axial tilt of the world and the confounding nature of dark matter. He should be sacked forthwith in an embarrassing public statement and replaced with ... No wait! It was my English genes kicking in there.


Haha. did he text Dhoni?

Yeah - Apparently he asked if they'd like Ish Sodhi back.

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Post by skyeman Sat 08 Feb 2014, 12:12 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:
skyeman wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:I think what the NZ cricket team needs is a full character assasination of McCulum. Right from the top, blaming him, his ego and his disruptive influence for the state not just of this innings, or NZ cricket, but also the axial tilt of the world and the confounding nature of dark matter. He should be sacked forthwith in an embarrassing public statement and replaced with ... No wait! It was my English genes kicking in there.


Haha. did he text Dhoni?

Yeah - Apparently he asked if they'd like Ish Sodhi back.


 Laugh Laugh 

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Post by Gerry SA Sat 08 Feb 2014, 12:28 am

I like this Shami Mohammad kid. 

What he lacks in athleticism, he makes up for in heart. He's pretty skilled and will get better. He's sharp and gets swing  

Now for his stake, the Indian selectors have to pick better bowlers around him. Yadav for his speed and Pandey for control.

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Post by kingraf Sat 08 Feb 2014, 4:38 am

Jeezus, what on earth happened today? No matter, I'm off the opinion that Test cricket is much better when bowlers run riot. Though I'd prefer an even day 3, I'll take a 18 wicket day over a 400/2 day 3 any day of the week
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Post by kingraf Sat 08 Feb 2014, 4:39 am

With regards to the match. This is a rather decent NZ attack, probably as good as they've had in the last 10-15 years... If India chase 400 on this deck, well fair play, because it looks a ways away.
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Post by KP_fan Sat 08 Feb 2014, 5:46 am

KP_fan wrote:not enouhg from Rohit to score only 72 runs when he gets in.

rahane was alos gone playing casually

will NZ enforce folow.on?

mystery will be solved when I wake up tomm morning.....not worth losing slpee over this game

unbelievable.

only half out of sleep at 630 in the morning, i look up the score on my BB.....rub my eyes, jump out of the bed and look up the score again.

UNBELIEVABLE turn around in this game

reaffirming trust in god, faith, miracles kind of things
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Post by KP_fan Sat 08 Feb 2014, 5:57 am

why o why did NZ not enforce the follow on....they had India on the mat.....with swing in the air....bowled India out in only 60 overs......spread evenly over two day...... 4 seamers and a spinner in the side
why did they not follow on...the game might be finished by now.


Now India with tail up and this starry line-up are favorites to chase down the remaining 320 tomm
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Post by alfie Sat 08 Feb 2014, 6:43 am

Not sure they are favourites , KP_f ...still a lot of runs to make , even with plenty of time to do it. Bit there for the spinner at times...

But today was an amazing comeback from India , and you have to praise the bowlers . Shami kicked it off with a bunch of early scalps , and Ishant (who really did bowl well , believe it or not !) wrapped it up late on. Couple of fine catches (Jadeja notable , plus an important run out ) and Dhoni really went for the throat with up to six slips at times...

Have to agree NZ blundered though . Had they enforced , the match may well be over by now.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat 08 Feb 2014, 8:06 am

So just to quickly recap everyones opinions following todays play...Ishant and Zaheer are two of the finest exponents of seam bowling in world cricket today and India are one of the mentally toughest cricketing nations

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Post by Sangakkara Sat 08 Feb 2014, 9:07 am

This is a superb test.
Looking forward to the chase tonight.
I can't quite believe New Zealand let India back into this match, but fair play there was some terrific bowling and fielding on display from India.
Jadeja has been class.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 08 Feb 2014, 9:54 am

Ah....test back on. NZ still favourites though.

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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Feb 2014, 12:49 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:msp, why is Nohit scoring runs a bad thing? I don't want him in the ODI side but he's had only 2 bad tests against the best team in the world in their own den after an excellent debut series. Cut him some slack. No shame in failing vs Steyn and co. Dhawan has not even reached 35 in the 5 tests since his debut yet you're not half as critical of him. Nohit had 2 great Tests, 2 bad ones and is having a good one again. Dhawan had 1 great test and 5 bad ones. Dhawan's FC record is also far inferior to Nohit's. But clearly Nohit is the bigger problem, right? Did he run over your cat or (sorry for saying this), sleep with your wife?
Shanky, Sharma's temperament is also a questionmark, and that has been the case since 2007. His technique is overratet by many, but he is far less assured against the moving ball in comparison to the likes of Pujara and Kohli. Kohli is not exactly a textbook batsman, but he has a sound understanding of his own game and a very functional technique. As I said, Sharma failed in 10 out of the 12 innings he had overseas, it is not just about the different formats, the temperamental and technical aspects of his game are problematic, and temperament rather than technique has let him down far too often, and nothing in these 2 overseas tour has suggested that he has really moved on. But since India are unlikely to drop him any time soon, lets just hope this 72 has started the car and Rohit would eventually turn that proverbial corner

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Post by msp83 Sat 08 Feb 2014, 1:10 pm

Now on to the 3rd day. It was an absolutely brilliant comeback from India. And it was instigated by the much maligned (often justifiably so) bowling unit. Mohammad Shami was brilliant, Zaheer showed greater intensity than he did in the first innings, Jadeja was his usual accurate and economical self and believe it or not, even Ishant Sharma was very good and he bowled much better than he did in the first innings for half the reward!.
With swing in the air, New Zealand should have enforced the follow-on. Their bowlers bowled just about 60 overs spread across 2 days and they have a 5 man attack with a quality parttime bowler in Kane Williamson to back them up. Perhaps the West Indies test early this year were Darren Bravo cracked a double hundred in the follow-on innings might have dominated Brendon McCullum's mind, perhaps they would have been spooked by reports about Kolkata 2001 (McCullum plays his IPL for the Knight Riders), but whatever it is, it has given India a sniff. The Indians have got a decent start as well, Shikhar Dhawan has played a largely sensible innings though he hasn't shown much inclination to leave the short ball alone. Even when he wasn't playing an attacking shot, Dhawan did feel the need to put bat to ball whenever he had to deal with a short one and he even got hit on the arm ones. But he has got another start and lives on to fight another day. Cheteshwar Pujara, after playing a horrific Un-Pujara shot in the first innings was calm and composed throughout his stay other than a frantic run for Dhawan at the beginning of his innings, and he even hit a 6!.
Despite all that, I have to say New Zealand are clear favorites even now. Sure they lost ground on day 3, but on the first couple of days and in the first hour of day 3, India had conceded so much of it that New Zealand went into their 2nd innings with a healthy bank balance. Southee and Boult constitute the best new ball attack for NZ in decades, and in Neil Wagner, they have a bowler who always bowls his heart out. Anderson is quite handy, and young Ish Sodhi has done OK so far. The Morning session and the new ball has been difficult for batsman all throughout, NZ lost 3 early wickets on day one, India lost 4 early wickets to the new ball yesterday and today's morning session produced as many as 10 wickets. And midway into the 2nd session (provided India last that long), the 2nd new ball will be available.
It will be fabulous if India could complete the turn around they started today and I hope they manage to do that, but I am not betting anything on that yet.

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Feb 2014, 7:15 pm

Nothing wrong with the decision to bat again. You just don't expect to be rolled over for little over 100. Still a tall order to expect India to get the runs but they have a slight chance, which they wouldn't have if NZ had got even 50 more.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 08 Feb 2014, 7:26 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Nothing wrong with the decision to bat again. You just don't expect to be rolled over for little over 100. Still a tall order to expect India to get the runs but they have a slight chance, which they wouldn't have if NZ had got even 50 more.

India is not winning this narrowly...either they will win by 7 wickets or lose by 150 runs
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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 08 Feb 2014, 7:52 pm

msp83 wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:msp, why is Nohit scoring runs a bad thing? I don't want him in the ODI side but he's had only 2 bad tests against the best team in the world in their own den after an excellent debut series. Cut him some slack. No shame in failing vs Steyn and co. Dhawan has not even reached 35 in the 5 tests since his debut yet you're not half as critical of him. Nohit had 2 great Tests, 2 bad ones and is having a good one again. Dhawan had 1 great test and 5 bad ones. Dhawan's FC record is also far inferior to Nohit's. But clearly Nohit is the bigger problem, right? Did he run over your cat or (sorry for saying this), sleep with your wife?
Shanky, Sharma's temperament is also a questionmark, and that has been the case since 2007. His technique is overratet by many, but he is far less assured against the moving ball in comparison to the likes of Pujara and Kohli. Kohli is not exactly a textbook batsman, but he has a sound understanding of his own game and a very functional technique. As I said, Sharma failed in 10 out of the 12 innings he had overseas, it is not just about the different formats, the temperamental and technical aspects of his game are problematic, and temperament rather than technique has let him down far too often, and nothing in these 2 overseas tour has suggested that he has really moved on. But since India are unlikely to drop him any time soon, lets just hope this 72 has started the car and Rohit would eventually turn that proverbial corner
I don't disagree with any of that but to call for him to be dropped from the Test side after just 2 bad tests, which came on the back of 2 excellent ones, is ludicrous. Dhawan failed in each and every intl inns before this since the start of the SA tour yet you're not half as critical of him.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 08 Feb 2014, 10:19 pm

Pujara gets a peach of a delivery....and gone.....big blow for India..he was to anchor the inning if India were going to chase this
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Post by KP_fan Sat 08 Feb 2014, 10:32 pm

ball is swinging and life is difficult out there for batsmen...southee bowling perfectly in the "right areas"
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Post by KP_fan Sat 08 Feb 2014, 11:01 pm

after 45 minutes ball swinging less and runs coming throuhg a bit more easily.

actually southee was the only one who looked dangerous.....NZ's hours as they prised out Pujara.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 08 Feb 2014, 11:39 pm

--had a close look at Ish sodhi....he doesn't pivot...and delivers front on

--so he won't get big turning leg breaks.....because he finishes with his chest facing the batsman....unlike a warne or Mushtaq or Mishra or Danish who finished with their chest facing square leg.

--so Ish is getting far few revs on the ball...and getting lesser rip.

--and he isn't flighting it much also...fastish / flatish not spinning much...not flighting much....ain't a test match quality spinner.
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Post by Pal Joey Sun 09 Feb 2014, 12:04 am

Lunch and India 180/2 and only need 230 runs to win.
Dharwan and Kohli are well in control at the moment.
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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 12:10 am

India go into lunch at 180-2.....some more observations:

--Ish sodhi is a waste of space...given that he can't bat like Vettori...and is not a quick fielder either.......a bit like  Kumble / Harmisson type long limbed ungraceful slow moving fielders.
Williamson can do just as good ( or as bad ) a job as Sodhi.

--Corey Anderson...his limited over successes notwithstanding he will quickly get exposed as a bit and pieces cricketer.
Primraliy because of his bowling...he lacks interest in bolwing...just runs in and puts it somewhere/ anywhere...with no planning / serious thinking in his mind....mindless bolwing.
I believe he just doesn't think he has any serious role as a bowler ........and as a batsman with close catchers........in tests he will soon get caught out.

---southee was good only with new ball.....anbd the other two left armers were lacking direction today.......I have seen them bowl much better.

--NZ would be served better if they were to bring Nathan Mccullum for Sodhi and a Ryder for anderson
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Post by Gerry SA Sun 09 Feb 2014, 12:34 am

KPF,

Whilst I don't particularly rate Corey J Anderson, he played a couple of mature Test innings. So I wouldn't be writing him off just yet. His bowling will get better, he seems a little too bulky to bowl a sustained spell in Test match conditions. 

I can see Ryder and Guptill replacing the inept Rutherford and Fulton.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 1:04 am

dhawan gets a very valuable hundred.....witha SIX and a FOUR.....Ish sodhi is bolwing c.rap and can't understand why McCullum started with him after lunch.......18 off the over.

Dhawan has left outsdie the off well and most importantly played close to the body......he is going to England now Smile

every one of top eight batsmen have gotten some or a lot runs in the last 3 overseas tests now with the exception of our No.7 Dhoni.
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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 1:07 am

Gerry SA wrote:KPF,

Whilst I don't particularly rate Corey J Anderson, he played a couple of mature Test innings. So I wouldn't be writing him off just yet. His bowling will get better, he seems a little too bulky to bowl a sustained spell in Test match conditions. 

I can see Ryder and Guptill replacing the inept Rutherford and Fulton.

I don't think so..for reasons stated in my post earlier.

He might prove me wrong....but my very early call on Corey Anderson...he is not a test player
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Post by Gerry SA Sun 09 Feb 2014, 1:09 am

Maybe a career defining moment for Dhawan's Test career. 

Yes he got the sensational 187 against Australia on debut, but now he's shown he can score runs outside India. 

The penny's dropped for Dhawan, get in then play of shots later. In the ODIs/Tests in SA and the ODIs in NZ, Dhawan was reckless.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 1:11 am

against the run of play...Kohli's under edge taken by the WK.......NZ back in the game
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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 1:21 am

the key for ind so far and as in SA mostly was not to lose wickets in a heap.

so these two need to get atleats a 40 odd run partnership and weather down the intensity of NZ bowling
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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 1:43 am

1st hour after lunch....50 runs and a wicket...even hour......game still in balance
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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 2:14 am

an effort ball from wagner........rises from not so short a length and takes Dhawan's glove.....

NZ marginally ahead........India needs to not lose a wicket for anotehr 50 odd runs
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Post by Pal Joey Sun 09 Feb 2014, 2:22 am

2nd new ball coming soon. We are in for a scintillating finish again I feel.
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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 2:43 am

Rahane given off a BIG inside edge.....makes it 90 runs for 3 wickets in the session that belonged to NZ

Ball is new and swinging and India's lower order is exposed to the new ball..because of Rahane's dismissal.

NZ could polish off the lower order today...the only thing against them ....is wagner would be tired after that great spell with old ball....so they do not have a back up to the new ball bowlers
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Post by Pal Joey Sun 09 Feb 2014, 2:51 am

Either that or he'll find that extra bit of energy as a possible win comes more into the frame.

Still very winnable for India with Dhoni now at the crease. Sharma needs to keep the score ticking. Then there's still Jadeja to come.

NZ need to snare 2/3 of them and run through the rest quickly in order to pull this match out of the fire.

It should be an exciting final session today.
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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 2:55 am

this is how dhoni likes it.....get it close to the finish line and handi ti to him and Jadeja and with his favourite Rohit  to give compnay.

except that this is a test match. somehow dhonis' gotta not edge it to WK/ slips and get about 40 odd runs with the bat
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Post by alfie Sun 09 Feb 2014, 3:49 am

Down to just 69 now...

MSD is going to have to get most of them though , despite Zaheer's rather unorthodox but powerful hitting .

Been a splendid Trst Match , whatever happens now.

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Post by alfie Sun 09 Feb 2014, 4:16 am

India need fifty ...but just two "batsmen" left to help Dhoni...

Ishant couldn't look more like a rabbit if he had long ears sticking out of his helmet...don't think Dhoni will want to let him face too many balls.

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Post by alfie Sun 09 Feb 2014, 4:18 am

Never mind...Dhoni drags one on !

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 09 Feb 2014, 4:23 am

All over. NZ wins by 40 runs.

Wagner lucky with that no-ball to Dhoni. Great match... very entertaining.
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Post by alfie Sun 09 Feb 2014, 4:28 am

Linebreaker wrote:All over. NZ wins by 40 runs.

Wagner lucky with that no-ball to Dhoni. Great match... very entertaining.

Did you think , lb ? I thought the TV pictures were inconclusive ...don't think you could call that a no ball retrospectively ; and obviously not live either.

Certainly a great Test Match  OK 

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Post by Pal Joey Sun 09 Feb 2014, 4:35 am

Just being gracious. It looked pretty wide to me but that's irrelevant really. Umpire's decision stands and I'm just glad NZ got there in the end.
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Post by Biltong Sun 09 Feb 2014, 6:32 am

Very happy for New Zealand, great result for them.
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Post by kingraf Sun 09 Feb 2014, 6:43 am

that was a fantastic test. we've been spoilt with that recently
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Post by msp83 Sun 09 Feb 2014, 6:52 am

So India's poor first innings efforts with ball and bat eventually did them in despite a fine performance in both departments 2nd time round. Despite the momentum shifting quite a bit yesterday, I thought 407 would be a very very difficult chase and so it proved. They came close and gave a better account of themselves in the last couple of days, but that's 10 losses out of the last 11 overseas tests and that's pretty poor.
The New Zealnd bowlers were ones again excellent. They had to earn their wickets this time, Southee was good with the new ball, Boult was a bit more patchy but produced the wickets just when it mattered, and Neil Wagner, the man with the biggest heart in that bowling unit, ran in hard all day and 8 wickets in the game is just rewards for his efforts.
Shikhar Dhawan might just have rescued his test career here. Unlike in his previous overseas efforts, he managed the tendency to resist to feel bat on ball with the short ball though he was eventually done in by one brute of a short ball. Pujara got a fine delivery, and early on when you resume your innings, any good batsman could get out to that. But Virat Kohli played a reckless shot when he had the bowling under his mercy. That wicket was the turning point. Then Ajinkya Rahane got an absolute howler (Tony Hill wasn't even officiating!!), he hit the cover of it and it was too high as well. Rohit Sharma couldn't survive the new ball, and though Jadeja and Dhoni played their shots, the target was beyond their reach.

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Post by msp83 Sun 09 Feb 2014, 6:54 am

ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:msp, why is Nohit scoring runs a bad thing? I don't want him in the ODI side but he's had only 2 bad tests against the best team in the world in their own den after an excellent debut series. Cut him some slack. No shame in failing vs Steyn and co. Dhawan has not even reached 35 in the 5 tests since his debut yet you're not half as critical of him. Nohit had 2 great Tests, 2 bad ones and is having a good one again. Dhawan had 1 great  test and 5 bad ones. Dhawan's FC record is also far inferior to Nohit's. But clearly Nohit is the bigger problem, right? Did he run over your cat or (sorry for saying this), sleep with your wife?
Shanky, Sharma's temperament is also a questionmark, and that has been the case since 2007. His technique is overratet by many, but he is far less assured against the moving ball in comparison to the likes of Pujara and Kohli. Kohli is not exactly a textbook batsman, but he has a sound understanding of his own game and a very functional technique. As I said, Sharma failed in 10 out of the 12 innings he had overseas, it is not just about the different formats, the temperamental and technical aspects of his game are problematic, and temperament rather than technique has let him down far too often, and nothing in these 2 overseas tour has suggested that he has really moved on. But since India are unlikely to drop him any time soon, lets just hope this 72 has started the car and Rohit would eventually turn that proverbial corner
I don't disagree with any of that but to call for him to be dropped from the Test side after just 2 bad tests, which came on the back of 2 excellent ones, is ludicrous. Dhawan failed in each and every intl inns before this since the start of the SA tour yet you're not half as critical of him.
Well, it wasn't exactly a call to drop him. It was just expressing concern that this innings would only be a prelude to further inconsistencies.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 09 Feb 2014, 7:48 am

India was always 30 runs behind NZ in the game.......
there were about 8 moments when India would almost draw parity with NZ.......only to lose wicket and be pushed back.

Exciting it was but not what Dhoni as the captain of No.2 team....would be forgiven for.....against a much lower ranked team.

Now he has 10 defeats out of 11 overseas games and one near defeat defending 450 runs.

If he does not win T2 I believe it will be hard for him to retain his test captaincy.
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Post by Sangakkara Sun 09 Feb 2014, 9:11 am

Brilliant test. Well done New Zealand!
Patient bowling paid off in the end. Not sure if Wagner's was a no ball or not - a very difficult call. I know it's not how sport works (THERE ARE RULES DONNY!) but he deserved the benefit of the doubt.

Great knock from Dhawan. Hope he cracks on from here and proves the doubters wrong. I think it's far too early days to say he's not a test player. I think he'll be a big player. Though I couldn't dampen my desire for some quality schadenfreude - I was really hoping he would get out on 99 after celebrating his "century" Laugh


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Post by mystiroakey Sun 09 Feb 2014, 9:14 am

Well done NZ.

I still can't work out where they have allowed questions to be asked by not enforcing the follow on.
They turned a dominant win in to one with massive question marks..

But hey look they are a learning team. So well done

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Post by Duty281 Sun 09 Feb 2014, 10:18 am

Well done New Zealand. clap

Great Test match.

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Post by kiakahaaotearoa Sun 09 Feb 2014, 12:38 pm

They didn't enforce follow on against England I seem to recall and haven't learned from the mistake. They bowled out India cheaply. It wasn't like they were looking at three days in the field consecutively in realistic terms. It was very defensive when normally McCullum likes to be aggressive. He can't win a toss to save himself but he anchored the first innings and made this NZ's test to lose. They almost did but credit to India's bowling and credit finally to NZ's bowling attack that got the wickets at the right stages even though there weren't enough runs to play with. But bowling at 180 / 2, they would've been packing themselves. To get the win made for a great spectacle but I hope faced with this scenario in the future, they make it easy on themselves and back themselves to bowl out an opponent again.

Blood pressure is up but a test win against India ultimately is what they got. Now let's see the India fightback and how NZ react in the second test.

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