Next season for Welsh rugby ?

Now that this season is over for us Welsh, what are our expectations for the regions and the national side for next season ? I am of the opinion that things can only get better, so for every one across the board I expect big improvements. Does anybody know of any potential signings for our regions ? Does anybody see any youngsters stepping up to the mark next season ? I think some players and coaches are now drinking in the last chance saloon and if ideas are not bucked next season heads will roll. So to summarise I expect Wales to get out of their group in the World cup, and I expect at least two regions to qualify from their groups in the HC. Also I would expect to see at least two regions in next seasons play-offs. I am not asking for the world with these expectations and I for one hope that Wales and the regions are aiming higher, but alas, that is all I can realistically see happening.

What, nobody got any opinions on this subject ?

Welsh rugby for me has really been strange recently.

An unexpected grandslam followed by a 6N filled with poor rugby. Gatland the Saviour followed by Gatland is clueless.

I really dont know what to think.

Wales won quite a few games but looked awful - if they can start playing better, they can surely do something at the WC. But what needs to change? Who knows.

Maybe a poor WC and the dismissal of the coaching staff will do wonders in the long run.

Cheers for the reply Hobo, I have a sneaky feeling that Wales will do well in this world cup. I like to think that Gatland is trying to hoodwink everyone so that our expectations are lower and then, BANG, we shoot out of the starting blocks and reach the semi-finals. Thus, sending Gatland back to Wales as the great redeamer. Also it is in his own country which is were he would prefere to coach, so he has to impress the natives, so to speak.

My expectations at the WC could not be lower.If we can get off the plane without another Henson scandal or a Welsh player being cited I will be happy.
The pantomime season seems to be never ending with our boys.

From a regional point of view i think it will probably see the Dragons and the Scarlets having a good start to the season with the other two missing too many key players to the RWC, and then the unsettled period as they are reintroduced to the sides. I think that the HC qualification battle will be a very tight one, and I would not be suprised to see the Blues or Ospreys still fighting come the final few games of the season to secure their spot.

Internationally I have a feeling it will just get worse.

SS - do you really see the Scarlets getting a good start? we're going to be missing our key and possibly best players during the RWC. I have a feeling we're going to struggle a bit.

Ospreys and Blues to get worse, Scarlets and Dragons to continue to improve.

I see a real shift in power in Welsh Rugby over the next few years.

If the Scarlets and Dragons supply more players to the national squad this will be good for the Blues and Ospreys for the ML and HC. The Ospreys and Blues have been carrying the other teams in terms of supplying most of the Welsh squad disrupting the Ospreys and Blues team continuity.

Wales progress in the WC does not depend on the players but tactics, I hope Gatland and his team of experts (Joke) are keeping their cards close to their chest but somehow I doubt it. Time will tell.

Haven't the Ospreys actually done better without their internationals in the past season?

Failure to reach knockout stage at the RWC, Gatland to resign, Edwards following swiftly on. Lyn Jones mooted as successor then an overseas S15 coach drafted in as Great redeemer mk2.

4th place in 6N defeating Italy and Scotland. Narrow loss to France, stuffed by Ireland and England.

Regions:

Scarlets finish best in top 4 ML and 4 wins out of 6 in europe - knockouts if they're lucky.
Ospreys next in ML but only 2 wins in europe.
Dragons hot on O's heels and reach Amlin knockouts.
Blues behind D's in ML and 2 wins in europe - Dai Young resigns saying recruitment is needed.

Meanwhile, confusion reigns as Neath and Pontypridd refuse to play ball with the regions and disappointment up north as no representation is achieved in new look welsh prem.

In short another messed up season.

As mentioned, I don't hold a lot of hope for WC. I think the physicality of having to play SA, Samoa and Fiji will leave us with a number of injuries and our lack of depth will stop us progressing any further than QF. Also our game plan is so static that Howley needs to really start earning his money on some attacking strategies. If the Dragons and Scarlets can play inventive rugby surely the Welsh national team can!

I expect better results to come the Dragons way, (although being a Dragons fan this may just be blind optimism). I think we can reach at least the QF of the Amiln cup.

I don't expect much from the Blues next season as they stated they aren't recruiting and will continue to play Dan Parks in a back line that is struggling to score tries.

I expect more of the same from the Scarlets but with a stronger team mentality and record a few more wins home and away.

Really not sure about the Ospreys as the team will have changed radically. Maybe they will do better in the ML but struggle with the HC as their younger players will be learning on the job!

All in my humble opinion anyway.

Dreamer - I don't thin that Gatland will plump for more than two or three Scarlets in his RWC squad. I honestly think he is just throwing us a bone with the Baabaa selection.

It seems that most people on here are predicting the same for next year. What happened to all the back biting etc from 606?

SS - I think my issue with the Scarlets for next year is that the players we are likely to lose are so key to our team that I think we'll struggle a bit without them, and if we start off badly I think we'll find the ML quite tough.

It is strange that we are all in agreement at the moment, I don't expect it to last long!

I think younger, up and coming players will feature more on the domestic front because the international players will be under immense pressure due to the amount of fixtures. Therefore, you'll see a shift in the regions with the Dragons and Scarlets doing better. I can't see Gatland lasting long if Wales bomb out of the RWC either.

In response to the bit on transfers, very few have been announced as far as im aware.

Dragons- Darren Waters (Pontypridd)

Ospreys- George Stowers (London Irish)
Fotuali'i (Crusaders)
BLues- ?

Scarlets- ?

Feel Free to add names Ive missed or as theyre announced.

It will be like 2003 all over again. A desperate coach will throw a bone to some in the international wilderness (Brew and Biggar). They will ignore his game plan and decide to chuck it about a bit. We will almost win the World Cup, losing heroically to Ireland (the ultimate winners) in an epic semi final (the final itself will be v boring, yawn). The coach will adopt the new style for the next 6 nations and, although coming third, he will be sacked. A new coaching team of Phill Davies (forwards) Paul Turner (backs) and Lyn Jones (Head) will be put in place un time for the first defeat of NZ (losing WC finalists) since 1953. Two AI games will be lost but a grand slam will be taken in grand style and confident enthused internationals will go back to new coaches (Kingsley Jones at the Blues and Mike Ruddock at the Ospreys) in time for the Scarlets to be crowned HC champions and the Dragons to take the Grand Final, mugging Leinster at Dave Parade.

Then one of the coaches will sleep with another one's wife and it will all fall apart in time for the 2013 wooden spoon.

Why is there never a super-injunction when you need one?That last posting gave me the heebie-geebies!

Glad to be of service. Our only predictable trait in rugby terms is a tendency to self destruct as soon as we achieve anything.

I think that the Dragons are going to be giving full contracts to some of the boys who are in the current sevens setup. I think I have here Alex Cuthbert's name doing the rounds, and I also think there are one or two more as well.

Clearly others will disagree but I'm gonna back Cardiff Blues to win Magners League and 1 Welsh quarter final in Magners. Dragons to have a good Amlin run. National team to struggle.

But what about the adultery Stag?

I have no optimism about the national side's chances at the World Cup. How can anyone think we'll do well, when we've played such horrible rugby for the last couple of seasons?

Glas a du wrote:But what about the adultery Stag?

???

I'm hopeful next year. Scarlets and Dragons have a lot of young talented Welsh players coming through. It looks as though the Ospreys are going to give youth a chance next season also.
After the world Cup Ireland will be decimated, with most of their players in their mid 30's now. they will lose the best part of an entire team, which will only help the Wales National team. We can beat Scotland and Italy. England is a 50/50 game and Ireland will be a lot weaker.
It's not been a great season but in truth the Scarlets and Dragons have unearthed some gems this year, the Ospreys too. Wales did win 3 out of 5 in the 6 nations too. So im not overly worried.

AlynDavies wrote:After the world Cup Ireland will be decimated, with most of their players in their mid 30's now. they will lose the best part of an entire team, which will only help the Wales National team.

Sorry - but I'm not sure this is accurate - yes a few are on the older side but there a heck of a lot of 20 somethings in there

AlynDavies wrote:After the world Cup Ireland will be decimated, with most of their players in their mid 30's now.

Oh of course.

01) Cian Healy - 23
02) Rory Best - 28
03) Mike Ross - 31

04) Donnacha O'Callaghan - 32
05) Paul O'Connell - 31

06) Sean O'Brien - 24
07) David Wallace - 34
08) Jamie Heaslip - 27

09) Eoin Reddan - 30
10) Jonathon Sexton - 25

12) Gordon Darcy - 31
13) Brian O'Driscoll - 32

11) Luke Fitzgerald - 23
14) Tommy Bowe - 27
15) Keith Earls - 23

And there are plenty of guys in their 20s like McFadden, Trimble, Kearney, Cronin, Ryan, Toner, Ferris, Leamy, O'Leary, Spence, Tuohy etc

Or why not look at Wales with who you could use the same benchmark. Ryan Jones, Shane Williams, Stephen Jones, Adam Jones, Lee Byrne and Gethin Jenkins are all into their 30s now. Is the Welsh side going to be decimated?

Some clichés just have no truth.

No, it's true. Ireland will be decimated.

Of course, that means they'll probably lose 3 of their 30 man squad.

Stag has the evidence - 1 (Wally) in his mid 30s
Should that maybe be tridecimated???

I think only David Wallace will retire soon out of that team. Obviously Hayes and Horan have already been phased out. Paddy Wallace will probably retire from international rugby after the RWC to focus on Ulster allowing McFadden to come through (and dislodge D'Arcy while he's at it). Stringer will move aside as well. The era of Murray and O'Leary has begun at Munster. So, what- three players of our 30 man squad retiring? Only one of them first choice, all with quality replacements waiting in the wings?

I can't see O'Driscoll or O'Connell walking away now. They still have two or three year of top flight rugby left in them, plus their replacements aren't ready. I'd hope this is their last World Cup but there will be an orderly transition of power.

As well as that the stable nature of the Irish provinces means that some one will be stepping up. Necessity is the mother of invention.

To be honest, it was always going to be a question of whether we can replace O'Connell, O'Driscoll and O'Gara. O'Gara we've replaced adequately now. There are good candidates to replace O'Driscoll but they are still somewhat raw.

O'Connell is the one there is the least cover for, but he's also the one with the most rugby left in him I feel. My heart sunk when I saw Ian Nagle has resigned at Munster in truth. He needs significant amounts of gametime to develop as a player and there are FOUR current Ireland locks at Munster.

I wouldn't have liked to see him leave Ireland but perhaps a place can be found for him at Ulster or Leinster. I'd love to see Nagle heading one way and Darren Cave heading the other. Just know it won't happen.

Notch wrote: I wouldn't have liked to see him leave Ireland but perhaps a place can be found for him at Ulster or Leinster. I'd love to see Nagle heading one way and Darren Cave heading the other. Just know it won't happen.

Yea it would suit both parties.

After a World Cup there tends to be a lot of retirements and if we look at Irelands marquee players like:

Ronan O'Gara (34),
O'Driscoll (32),
O'Connell (31),
John Hayes (37),
Peter Stringer (33),
O'Callaghan (32),
David Wallace (34),
Shane Horgan (32),
Jerry Flannery (32),

Are on their last legs, and most will probably be gone after the World Cup or next Lions tour!
Hell even a lot of their replacements are in their early 30's! I'm just wondering how many good young Irish players they really have compared to Wales talent pool.
Clearly Jonathan Sexton has been identified as their new Fly Half, but what about everywhere else?
Frankly looking ahead to after the World Cup and next season things could be looking a lot more rosy for Welsh fans.

Certainly Wales will lose:

Shane Williams (34)
Stephen Jones (33)
Martyn Williams (35)

But we already have Priestland, Tovey, Hook, Biggar vying for the Fly Half spot, with Nicky Robinson, Ceri Sweeney backing them up. While Warburton has taken williams place from him already. Shane Williams has big shoes to fill, but he's no bigger for us that Brian O'Driscoll is for Ireland and Wales do have players like North, Halfpenny, Prydie, and Brew pushing him!

For Wales to be successful it follows Ireland, Scotland and england have to be inferiour, and I think Ireland will be within the next year. My gut instinct is Irelands golden generation is about to end.

AlynDavies wrote:If we look at Irelands marquee players like:

Ronan O'Gara (34),
John Hayes (37),
Peter Stringer (33),
Shane Horgan (32),
Jerry Flannery (32),

Marquee players indeed... none of those players are first choice in their positions! Two of them aren't even in our extended squad.

O'Callaghan (32),
David Wallace (34),
O'Driscoll (32),
O'Connell (31)

One of those will retire, Wallace. Then the other two will keep on over the next two or three years. I honestly don;t think we have a problem here.

Ok I'm bored with this. When its Hayes, Stringer, Horgan and Flannery your talking about your either the first WUM I've encountered or else know jack squatt about Irish rugby. We have players who play for our regional teams same as you. We'll be fine don't you worry. I think all the home nations seem to be pretty ok in terms of age.

[quote="Notch"]

AlynDavies wrote:If we look at Irelands marquee players like:

It's just an opinion, if Ireland have a magnificent world Cup then it's possible many of these players will choose to retire at the top. It happened to England in 2003.
Secondly the amount of games Ireland have won with last minute drop kicks and penalties from O'Gara over the years has been staggering. Sexton is also erratic, he blows hot and cold and in my opinion isn't quite ready to lead the Irish charge in the way O'Gara does. For all Munster and Irelands success over the years, you have to say a lot of it was down to O'Gara.

Thats fair enough Alyn but I'll have to strongly disagree that its all doom and gloom. England and Ireland are different animals. Where abouts do you see our biggest problems?

Right. Rugby players lie about their weight, height and age. If Ricky Evans was 31 when he had his first Welsh cap, his mother had been hiding him in the reeds on the Teifi for 6 or 7 years before they registered his birth. Shane Williams is not 5'8".

I don't think it's as stark as all that for Ireland. A few might concentrate on regional rugby and another one or two may suffer career ending injuries. The England team of 2003 had many older players. If they had replaced them sooner they would not have won. It is only now they are recovering from not replacing them sooner however.

My concern and it is not only for Irish Rugby, is that young players are bulking up too fast and before they are physically mature. Look at McFadden. He was an athletic inside centre for Ireland u 20's a few years back. However he has pumped up his pecks so much his shoulders are caving in and it looks like that if one tendon snapped he would curl up into a ball like a hedgehog. If this excessive bulk does not end their careers early it will cripple them for later life. Would you want your son at 15 to be given a diet and weights programe to put
on half his weight again within 2 years? If not he won't get accepted into an academy.

AlynDavies wrote:Shane Williams has big shoes to fill

He's no bigger than I size 8, I'll put money on it.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Shane Williams has big shoes to fill

He's no bigger than I size 8, I'll put money on it.

Try catching him in open play

Tricksy little hobbitses

If you catch him you get to make a wish.

(Indebted to the late, great and sadly missed Bill McLaren!)

Notch wrote:If you catch him you get to make a wish.

(Indebted to the late, great and sadly missed Bill McLaren!)

Haha very good

I can only see us moving forwards as we are pretty low already.Too many players picked on reputation rather than performance despite Gatland's statement that he would pick on form.If he had had the courage to practice what he preached some of our "shoe-ins" may have upped their game.
As the song goes:"Things can only get better."

Wales are playing a style of keeping it tight and kicking to the corners, its exactly what we need to do against Fiji and Samoa. the last thing we want is to be expansive and line our players out for the islanders tacklers to hit seven bells out of them. Kick them into the corners and pressurise their inferior set piece, make them frustrated and they will lose their heads and make infringements. they will then pick up Yellow cards and we can build on their weaknesses.