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So Much For The Djokovic/Murray Era

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So Much For The Djokovic/Murray Era Empty So Much For The Djokovic/Murray Era

Post by hawkeye Sun 16 Mar 2014, 2:19 pm

Whatever happens in the final today Federer will move up to number two in the race with Nadal at number three. Wawrinka is still at number one because of his 2,000 point haul at the AO but has done little since (or for that matter before) then to suggest that this is a position he can maintain. So things are beginning to look a little familiar.

So all that talk and about the Djokovic/Murray era looks like being exposed as just that "hype". If Federer wins today is it too soon to herald the new FEDAL era? If Federer wins tonight it will IMO be a huge blow to Djokovic. Not ideal with the whole critical and emotional clay season soon to follow.

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Post by HM Murdock Sun 16 Mar 2014, 3:04 pm

A thread which complains about hype but suggests declaring an "era" based on being 2nd and 3rd in the points race in March.

It's an unconventional argument, I'll grant you that.

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Post by lags72 Sun 16 Mar 2014, 3:26 pm

Well I must say I've never heard the clay season being described as "emotional" - but then I guess there's a first time for everything !

Hawkeye .....methinks you might be getting a little too emotional about tennis in general, and not least the implications of just a few early season tournies. In some ways, the Fedal era never disappeared completely, but if you seriously think Djokovic & Murray are not still right at the top of the sport, then I'd say you're on the wrong track by miles.

One of the key differences between elite high-achievers (including of course all members of the traditional 'big four') and over-excited fans is the ability to focus on the wider picture and the long term - rather than just the week to week but often transient variations in form & results.

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Post by hawkeye Sun 16 Mar 2014, 3:46 pm

HM. I think the idea of a FEDAL era is based on a little more than their recent rankings in the race  Wink 

lags72.

When I said "emotional" I was referring to the way I see Djokovic's approach to the clay season. But yes if it comes to a meeting between Nadal and Djokovic at RG I might find it a little scary and emotional too  Wink

I'm not suggesting that any players should be written off only that it may have been premature to declare that it was their era. In fact an era that can be named after just two players is rare. Chances are the FEDAL era will end with no clear successors.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Sun 16 Mar 2014, 4:50 pm

hawkeye wrote:HM. I think the idea of a FEDAL era is based on a little more than their recent rankings in the race  Wink 

lags72.

When I said "emotional" I was referring to the way I see Djokovic's approach to the clay season. But yes if it comes to a meeting between Nadal and Djokovic at RG I might find it a little scary and emotional too  Wink

I'm not suggesting that any players should be written off only that it may have been premature to declare that it was their era. In fact an era that can be named after just two players is rare. Chances are the FEDAL era will end with no clear successors.

1]Fedal era to end with no clear successors? the answer to this question everybody know that is "no".

2]"Nadal - Djokovic @ RG i might find it a little scary and emotional too" --> the reason being you know very well Djoko is hunting and on his day he is the best available on all courts this decade, its very unfortunate he didn't pull off last year RG [I am very happy too he didn't  Very Happy ], on clay Djoko is not afraid of anyone including Rafa. thumbsup 

3]If this is not a Fedal era and if its not a Djoko-Murray era either then can we conveniently call it a transition era like 2001- 2003 , I see the same path after a decade, 2011 to 2013, I hope a new champ is born already to win this year.  OK

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Post by Guest Sun 16 Mar 2014, 6:01 pm

A new Fedal era? Laugh

You are missing 2 important factors with your rant.

1) Murray has been out injured post Davis Cup and is coming back to fitness and form.

2) Djokovic has had massive changes in his coaching staff. Will take time for the adjustments to bear fruit.

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Post by Henman Bill Sun 16 Mar 2014, 6:09 pm

reads like a WUM article

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Post by Danny_1982 Sun 16 Mar 2014, 6:10 pm

Well, Murray looks well off the pace but then he is coming back from surgery. A little less sympathetic to Murray's injury absence than you were to Rafa's eh HE?

Novak's form is far from bad. What is it, 2 or 3 defeats since New York? If it's hype to say it's their era, it's also nonsense to suggest their best is behind them 5 minutes into a new season when 1 of them has a new coaching set up and the other is 3 tournaments back from surgery.

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Post by hawkeye Sun 16 Mar 2014, 6:21 pm

legendkillarV2

So you think the Djokovic/Murray era has just been delayed?

invisiblecoolers

Yes I agree. Djokovic is not afraid of Nadal on clay or any other surface. He has everything to gain and nothing to lose so what has he to be scared about. Nadal however might be afraid of him because the opposite is true. That's because it's still Nadal's "era" and this shows that those that claimed it was the Djokovic era were wrong. Although in 2011 it did look to be a possibility. How ironic that it was the other half of FEDAL that played an important part in containing him.

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Post by hawkeye Sun 16 Mar 2014, 6:28 pm

Henman Bill wrote:reads like a WUM article

Why? Even if you think there may be a Djokovic/Murray era in the future I doubt that anyone would say we are in the middle of one now. This is what we were being told just a short while ago. Remember? Federer was old and past it and Nadal was questionable to even return to the tour. In hindsight predictions of their demise have always been hasty. As I said as early as 2007 some reckoned Djokovic was the future.

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Post by Silver Sun 16 Mar 2014, 6:48 pm

hawkeye wrote:
Henman Bill wrote:reads like a WUM article

Why?

Your posting history alone is enough to assume that it's a WUM article.

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Post by Guest Sun 16 Mar 2014, 6:54 pm

Hawkeye

It's a lot of if's and but's. Take Wimbledon last year going into it Nadal was heavy favourite and him and Rog were on the plane home. We have seen Stan win his maiden Slam in a misfiring field.

Like I said, many factors need to be considered. What I will say is that Federer has acclimatised better to the changes than his counterparts. There are questions of Nadals fitness so it is no gimmie that he will dominate the clay

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Post by Jahu Sun 16 Mar 2014, 7:11 pm

There will never be a Djoko/Murray era.

There can be a great year i.e Djoko 2011, Murray 2013, but en 'era', I don't think so, as any player can beat them both when they are in a medium/low capacity state of mind playing.
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Post by lags72 Sun 16 Mar 2014, 7:24 pm

Fair points Jahu.

And if there IS to be something akin to a Djokovic/Murray era ...... well I guess it needs to happen soon because time doesn't stand still.

In years past we had a certain player appearing in no less than ten consecutive Slam Finals, with a short hiatus lasting just a few months, swiftly followed by another eight consecutive Final appearances. Pretty close to an era I'd say .........

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Post by socal1976 Sun 16 Mar 2014, 7:40 pm

Hawkeye is hilarious. So Murray's poor form coming back from an injury and another player playing in yet another Master's final have no chance of carving out dominance of this period. And by the way they are both young by modern tour standards. I always stated that if Nadal could return to full health that all three of them would run this era, the question was Nadal's health which has been answered. These 3 are clearly the best players on tour so they are on track of controlling this era. Murray is coming off a lengthy layoff. And Novak despite some poor form at the start of the season is in the final and one of his two losses came to a guy in startling form who has been the hottest player this year.

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Post by Rightjugeiam Mon 17 Mar 2014, 9:47 am

Murray is probably 6 to 8 months away from peak fitness and might start being competitive in the USO to AO period - based on the time out from surgery to the AO 2014 I would expect 9 to 12 months required - so it is far too early to draw any conclusion. The big question for him post-Wimbledon is 'where is the motivation coming from?' the answers remain to be seen

Djokovic remain right at the top and could wrest the #1 from Nadal this year as the gap is 2230 points and Rafa has 6 tournament victories totalling 8000 points to defend between now and the USO. He could pick up points at Miami and Wimbledon but to think he would do THE Canada-Cincinnati-USO treble again is highly unlikely and he will surely drop points there (3 finals would see him drop 2000 points, that's without the prospect of missing finals)

So before deciding on what is going to happen we have to wait and actually see what does happen. Djokovic could very well win RG, he came so close last year, Murray could hit peak form in the summer and win another Wimbledon and USO and we would then have Djoko and Murray as the two best again.

Premature OP imo

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Post by lags72 Mon 17 Mar 2014, 10:30 am

I think with respect you may be over-estimating the timespan needed for Murray to be back to "full fitness" - and by several months.

Murray himself is fairly satisfied that he is already very close to his 'normal' standard, and to 'where he wants to be' - as discussed in detail in this interview in The Scotsman.....

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/tennis/andy-murray-feels-back-to-full-fitness-1-3333253

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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 17 Mar 2014, 11:15 am

With Murray I have no doubt he is back to full fitness. Andy himself I think has admitted that at the moment he is low on confidence. For me Andy's failings have always been in the mental department when he goes into slumps and that hinders his game a lot more than the other top players at times of low confidence. He needs to build his confidence again before he is back to being very competitive in tournaments as the fitness is there as is the talent.
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Post by Guest Tue 27 Jan 2015, 1:08 pm

Hmmmmmm..... chin

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Post by socal1976 Tue 27 Jan 2015, 1:18 pm

That is why they call me Nostrafreakingdamus. Djokovic is certainly doing nothing to dispel my earlier prediction that he would take up the mantle once Nadal and Fed hit their oncoming physical walls. And Murray had one bad season after 8 or 9 great ones. I by the way picked Novak and Andy finishing 1 and 2 this year. And I could have sworn a certain Serb was the year end number for 3 time in 4 years.

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Post by Born Slippy Tue 27 Jan 2015, 1:23 pm

Rightjudge's comments above look spot on about Murray. Seems like it took him a year to recover fully from the after-effects of the back problem.

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Post by Guest Tue 27 Jan 2015, 3:16 pm

Another epic HE fail laughing

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Post by R!skysports Tue 27 Jan 2015, 3:36 pm

lol - that is what is great about the Internet - you can go back have a little chuckle at certain comments

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Post by Guest Tue 27 Jan 2015, 3:44 pm

All jesting aside, it would take something monumentous to have another 1,2 thing going with the same players. Even if Murray kicked on from here and won the AO, it's doing it every year and I don't think he has it in him both mentally physically to win multiple Slams and Masters in the same season (before I am shot down) be great if he could.

Most of the comments above were pretty much spot on.

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Post by Silver Tue 27 Jan 2015, 3:49 pm

He would do very well to leapfrog both Nadal and Federer for that #2 spot.

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Post by Guest Tue 27 Jan 2015, 3:52 pm

Well given his lack of Clay prowess too.

He'd have to dominate the HC season which is difficult with Novak and Roger around.

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Post by socal1976 Wed 28 Jan 2015, 7:44 am

Well the thing about Murray more concerning than the lack of clay prowess is his tendency to get injured quite frequently. He isn't as bad as Nadal but he doesn't have the durability and ability to go through a season as smoothly as Federer or Djokovic. As for the clay court prowess no he is no world beater but with Fed's age and Nadal struggling to complete a season at this stage in his career his two biggest nemesis' on the surface seem to have some chinks in the armor. I wouldn't be surprised if he does improve on clay and if that is the case I think he has another hardcourt slam and another wimbeldon in him at the least. As for clay he doesn't have to win them to be in contention for a top two spot he just has to get deep in the big tournaments and not be bombed out early.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Jan 2015, 8:35 am

I don't think it's the injuries that worry me socal. He's had what 2 injuries? Wrist in 07 and more recently the back. He's not injury prone so to speak as much as others on tour. His retirement record is impressive too.

It's sustaining the level of performance over a season that proves to be his issue. The clay prowess is an issue for me because he should be doing better on that surface. The thing I have noticed in his play at this AO is the heavy CCFH. He has used it alot by his standards and if he can keep that up, it will help him a lot on the clay with the amount of rallies he will face. Not sure how much of that I will put down to Mauresmo, but one thing is clear and that he is showing a bit variety on his shot selection. When looking at the Dimitrov/Kyrgios matches, almost like a different player. He had to think more against Kyrgios.

Andy could succeed on clay if he embraced aggression.

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Post by socal1976 Wed 28 Jan 2015, 10:35 am

Well he has the potential for it on clay. I still think he doesn't need to regularly win clay masters to get to top 2. For the life of me I have always wondered with his speed and fitness why clay is such a tough ask for him. He does make a lot of errors on that forehand side and aggression is great but on clay if you give up a lot of errors on that side you will typically lose. Good points LK, he will need a heavy angled CC forehand more on clay than on other surfaces.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Jan 2015, 10:43 am

Andy's biggest issue on clay aside from movement, has been the length on groundstrokes. Always short. He invites big hitters to take the ball earlier and move further in the court. That has been his achillies heel. That's why Ferrer is so good on clay. He finds the length perfectly. Quicker conditions lend themselves to Andy to the point he can hit heavy from the baseline and behind. On clay he doesn't have that luxury.

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Post by laverfan Wed 28 Jan 2015, 12:06 pm

@HE... Guess who are two of the four contestants @AO 2015?

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Post by socal1976 Wed 28 Jan 2015, 12:15 pm

laverfan wrote:@HE... Guess who are two of the four contestants @AO 2015?

Murray in the semis and Fed and nadal both out early, HE is probably thinking of storming the Australian embassy at this point.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Wed 28 Jan 2015, 1:34 pm

laverfan wrote:@HE... Guess who are two of the four contestants @AO 2015?

Neither have won it yet though. It could be the Berdinka era, isn't that right HE?

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Jan 2015, 3:51 pm

socal1976 wrote:
laverfan wrote:@HE... Guess who are two of the four contestants @AO 2015?

Murray in the semis and Fed and nadal both out early, HE is probably thinking of storming the Australian embassy at this point.

HE is not a Federer fan.

She just likes to lump them together for kudos. She is a Nadal fan through and through and more than capable of denigrating Federer when it suits her agenda.

Btw, HE where are yooooooooou?

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Jan 2015, 3:55 pm

Well she hasn't been on since Monday.

Coincidence? chin

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Post by hawkeye Wed 28 Jan 2015, 3:58 pm

Laugh So on 606v2 an era now only lasts two weeks? The cast in this one consists of bit part players in the FeDal era so it doesn't look particularly like a new era but whatever. Let this be known as the DjoWawMurBer era rose

I wonder what era will be next...

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Post by socal1976 Wed 28 Jan 2015, 3:59 pm

HE have you missed the fact that Djokovic has been world number for 3 out of the last four years, a bit more than fortnight if you ask me.

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Post by R!skysports Wed 28 Jan 2015, 3:59 pm

Not sure anyone has actually called it an era though (except you)?

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Jan 2015, 4:04 pm

hawkeye wrote:Laugh So on 606v2 an era now only lasts two weeks? The cast in this one consists of bit part players in the FeDal era so it doesn't look particularly like a new era but whatever. Let this be known as the DjoWawMurBer era rose

I wonder what era will be next...

You're back and it's great to have you here again. Hug

I reckon the next era will DimKyrKolCorNisRao

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Post by hawkeye Wed 28 Jan 2015, 4:09 pm

socal1976 wrote:HE have you missed the fact that Djokovic has been world number for 3 out of the last four years, a bit more than fortnight if you ask me.

socal. Yes of course I'm sorry.  Djokovic is more than a bit part player in the FeDal era. He is the chief villain. It would be no fun without him. But without them he's not much fun either.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

You're back and it's great to have you here again. Hug

I reckon the next era will DimKyrKolCorNisRao

I'm hoping for a slightly better sounding one Wink

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Post by socal1976 Wed 28 Jan 2015, 4:57 pm

Riskysports wrote:Not sure anyone has actually called it an era though (except you)?

Can you tell me how many other players have been year end #1 for three years or more. The list isn't long. A handful at best. Basically, Lendl, Mac, Connors, Sampras, Federer and nadal. Oh and Djokovic.

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Post by socal1976 Wed 28 Jan 2015, 4:59 pm

hawkeye wrote:
socal1976 wrote:HE have you missed the fact that Djokovic has been world number for 3 out of the last four years, a bit more than fortnight if you ask me.

socal. Yes of course I'm sorry.  Djokovic is more than a bit part player in the FeDal era. He is the chief villain. It would be no fun without him. But without them he's not much fun either.

legendkillarV2 wrote:

You're back and it's great to have you here again. Hug

I reckon the next era will DimKyrKolCorNisRao

I'm hoping for a slightly better sounding one Wink

Frankly, I would be happy if both of them were around in this AO but they are struggling to make it. As a djoko fan I don't fear either one and relish the match ups against them. Too bad they can't beat Seppi and Berdych anymore.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 30 Jan 2015, 12:11 pm

Yep, it's the end of an era.

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Post by Guest Fri 30 Jan 2015, 1:19 pm

It's the SearsMurray era!

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Post by Born Slippy Fri 30 Jan 2015, 11:42 pm

5th slam final for this pair. Of the big 4 match ups its:

Djokdal - 7
Fedal - 7
Murdjok - 5
Murfed - 3
Djokfed - 2
Nadray - 0

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