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Trott's Tale

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Post by KP_fan Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:23 am

In his own words as told to BBC.........
and the end he reveals his strategy to counter the sledging he would be targeted to during the 2015 Ashes  Shocked 
what should I call this?....audaciously presumptuous  Cool 

those words in bold from Flower are important


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/26578722

Jonathan Trott: Drive for success brought on Ashes burnout

Jonathan Trott has opened up about his England Ashes anguish, revealing he was "emotionally and mentally spent".
The batsman said he was burned out because of his relentless workload, but not depressed, when he left the tour.
"When a snowball gets too big it hits something and completely explodes," Trott, 32, told BBC Sport. "That's exactly what happened to me."
Following rest and sessions with a psychologist, Trott now hopes to win back his England place this summer.
In a wide-ranging interview with Pat Murphy, to be aired in full on BBC Radio 5 live at 21:00 GMT on Monday, Trott also revealed he:
began struggling mentally during the home Ashes series against Australia last summer;
declined an offer to miss the one-day series against Australia before the Ashes down under;
suffered "constant headaches" for five days during the Brisbane Test;
feared going home during the tour meant his England career was over;
now lists "perspective and balance" as the "two key words in my life";
expects to be sledged by Australia in the 2015 Ashes over what happened.
The departure of Trott, who has 3,763 runs in 49 England Tests, after the first Ashes contest in Brisbane in November was put down to a long-standing stress-related condition.
Interviewing Jonathan Trott
Image of Pat Murphy
Pat Murphy
BBC Radio 5 live
"I'm no medical man, but Jonathan Trott looked fine to me as we spent a morning chatting about his life, family, cricket and football.

"There was no hint of the rather haunted, erratic facial appearance of last autumn, when, unknown to him, Trott's international career was about to unravel spectacularly and publicly.

"It's impossible to say if Trott can return to his best. But perhaps the ECB could help others avoid the Trott route. One of these days the penny may drop and they grasp that England play simply too much international cricket. Burnout will remain a threat if it's claimed someone as mentally tough as Jonathan Trott."

But speaking about it four months on, Trott explained that he was physically and mentally drained by a relentless playing schedule and his desperation to maintain his own high standards.
"It was a culmination of putting myself through the rigours of an international season and not having the right balance between time off and trying to work hard at my game," said Trott.
"To have a successful international career, you have to be fit, but you also have to be emotionally and mentally right. The batteries on those two categories were running low."
Trott first realised something was wrong during the second Ashes at Lord's in July.
"It was like staring at a computer screen and not taking in what you are reading," he said. "I was watching the ball as hard as I normally do, but wasn't seeing it the same. I was putting myself under pressure.
"[Then-England coach] Andy Flower called me over after the Old Trafford Test - I didn't feel great about my cricket."
Trott stayed the course throughout England's 3-0 series victory and then turned down the chance to miss the one-day series in order to recharge his batteries for the trip to Australia.
"I didn't think I had played well enough in the Test series to deserve a rest," he said. "In hindsight, I should have taken a bit of time off. But I didn't - I worked really hard in the nets with [coach] Ashley Giles, two and a half hours a day and doing fitness work after that to be in good shape to go to Australia.
"I got to Australia, had a month there, with only two days off in the whole month. I was just emotionally and mentally spent by the time we got to Brisbane."
It was during the final Ashes warm-up game in Sydney that Trott, despite scoring 83 and 38 not out, realised that he would not be able to see out the tour.
"I shed quite a few tears telling my dad, who was coming to the second Test in Adelaide, which would have been my 50th Test, that I'm not going to go because I can't do it physically and mentally," he added.

"It got to the point during Brisbane where I wasn't sleeping during the Test, I didn't feel physically well. I was having constant headaches for five days in a row.
"Something had to give; I had to give. You can't carry a person on an Ashes tour."
As he said farewell to his England team-mates before boarding a flight home, Trott feared he may be finished as an international cricketer.
"I thought I'm not sure I can continue to do this," he said. "But Andy Flower said 'just be careful on making huge decisions straight away, in the heat of the moment.' Those were very wise words."
Having been given a clean bill of health by the England medical team and an independent psychologist, Trott is scheduled to make his comeback in a Warwickshire pre-season match against Gloucestershire on 1-2 April, but with a different mindset.
"In the past, if I didn't get runs in one of the Test matches, I'd go and work twice as hard to try to ensure I did in the next. Perspective and balance are now the two key words in my life."
This does not mean Trott has lost his international ambition.
"I expect to be in the position to be able to play for England again. If called upon that would be fantastic," he said.
"The start of the season is important so I can get back to cricket, get into the place I need to get to mentally and ready for the international summer."
Trott could face Australia again during the 2015 Ashes in England and is prepared for their players to bait him with references to his problems.
"I wouldn't put anything past them," he said. "They are very competitive. They always want to win. So I'm sure it will come my way. But I've dealt with it in the past pretty well."


Last edited by KP_fan on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by KP_fan Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:25 am

and Vaughan immediately holds this by the scruff of neck and calls Trott's Con

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/cricket/26608075
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:54 am

Anybody else remember when Vaughan walked out on England mid series??

http://www.cricket365.com/england/story/9218644/Only-the-ignorant-will-accuse-Trott-of-cowardice

This article hits the nail on the head
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Post by KP_fan Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:38 pm

Olly wrote:Anybody else remember when Vaughan walked out on England mid series??

http://www.cricket365.com/england/story/9218644/Only-the-ignorant-will-accuse-Trott-of-cowardice

This article hits the nail on the head

Joe Root had his thumb broken in the recent tour of the West Indies. There will be no expectation that he will have to explain why it was decided to not go to the World T20.

While a busted digit is very different from an issue of the mind, neither one is more debilitating that the other. Both affect your ability to do your job, in this case that job is scoring runs.


from the aforesaid article.........and this extract is where the article is self-defeating logically.
A broken thumb as in case of Root is verifiable...unambiguously.

whether it is mental depression/ sickness or simple incompetence at handling genuine pace bowling...is not verifiable.

when the same individual fails against genuine fast bowling repeatedly......as Vaughan points out....it does appear that mental depression / sickness is being used as a cloak for incompetence....as Vaughan also aptly points out
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:41 pm

I think there's probably a few psychiatrists who would dispute your assertion that mental illness/exhaustion is unverifiable.
And, if that is true, then neither you or Vaughan can know whether Trott was truly mentally exhausted or not can you? Therefore you're simply accussing Trott and the England management of lying.

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Post by KP_fan Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:00 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

I think there's probably a few psychiatrists who would dispute your assertion that mental illness/exhaustion is unverifiable.
Please quote me in entirety......"Mental illness unverifiable in a cut and dried/ black and white way..... like a broken thumb"  ( the analogy used in the article )

And, if that is true, then neither you or Vaughan can know whether Trott was truly mentally exhausted or not can you? Therefore you're simply accussing Trott and the England management of lying

And since it's unverifiable in a black and white way LIKE A BROKEN THUMB it is possible to feign ( or con as Vaughan says) a mental depression to cloak technical deficiencies against fast bowling
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:17 pm

So, in other words KP, you and Vaughan are insinuating that Trott lied about being stressed out/ mentally exhausted, in order to cover up that he couldn't cope with the bowling, despite the fact that neither of you have any evidence to support that claim?

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Post by KP_fan Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:10 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:So, in other words KP, you and Vaughan are insinuating that Trott lied about being stressed out/ mentally exhausted, in order to cover up that he couldn't cope with the bowling, despite the fact that neither of you have any evidence to support that claim?

"That Trott Lied" is making it too strong and definitive....which is not how I am looking at it.

that
1) whether a batsman is genuinely troubled by mental sickness and hence under-performing against fast bowling

OR
2) is he feigning ( or coning) by giving symptoms like........ " can't sleep, have headaches, can't focus......and depressed" to cloak his weakness against fast bowling... cannot be verified like the broken thumb of Root....that's where the article falls apart logically.

in Trott's case whether it is definitely 2).......I cannot say....and hence logically I cannot even say it's definitely 1).......and hence suspicion remains it can be 2) also.

Hence I would not give him a chance against gentler Lankan and Indian bowling.

Form and fitness permitting I can let him play against Aus or SA again when the next opportunity....to prove whether it was possibility 1) or 2)
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:38 pm

You might suspect that Trott was 'feigning' his problems.
Maybe those who actually saw how he was and worked closely with him don't.

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Post by KP_fan Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:24 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:You might suspect that Trott was 'feigning' his problems.
Maybe those who actually saw how he was and worked closely with him don't.

I would expect Vaughan is close to the team and well connected to the network of people close to the team.
vaughan's comments give credence to my suspicion
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Post by Pal Joey Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:45 am

Slightly off topic... but it has been revealed that Michael Clarke scored his magnificent 161* in Capetown last week with a fractured shoulder.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/current/story/728549.html

Unlike Trott - self-preservation was put aside for the honour of playing for his country and achieving a positive result against all odds.
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Post by kingraf Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:38 am

Also slightly off topic, but Smiths last win as a captain came as his daughter was preparing for surgery following burns she sustained... Not saying anything about Trott, just that the world isn't a vacuum and he certainly isn't the only cricketer who has to deal with unpleasant situations.
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Post by KP_fan Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:39 am

Matthew Hoggard goes to the media and says he agrees with Vaughan
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Post by Stella Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:47 am

Also slightly off topic. Vaughan is an attention seeker.
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Post by KP_fan Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:49 am

And here starts the very English charade........one that creates soft-gelly instead of hard-nuts out of their cricketers

English team will be asked if they are OK to have Trott back.....
Mark my words Swann is eyeing a comeback "on popular demand"  laughing 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10704154/England-players-will-be-asked-if-they-want-Jonathan-Trott-to-return-to-international-set-up.html


the England players will be asked if they are comfortable with Jonathan Trott returning to the side before he is selected for international cricket again.
Trott has indicated that he feels he will be ready to play for England again as soon as May 9 against Scotland in Aberdeen, less than six months after returning from the Ashes tour with a stress-related illness. Trott has since stated that he was suffering from “burnout” and Michael Vaughan, writing for Telegraph Sport on Sunday, questioned whether he should play international cricket again stating that he believed “burnout to be an excuse” for poor cricketing form.
Ultimately the decision on Trott’s England future will be made by the new management team which will be in place by the time of the Scotland match. But it is understood that the senior players remaining from the Ashes tour will also be asked if they have any objections to the return of a player who some within the dressing room could feel left when the heat was on in Australia. So far in public, England’s players have been sympathetic when asked about Trott.
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Post by KP_fan Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:50 am

Stella wrote:Also slightly off topic. Vaughan is an attention seeker.

ad hominem syndrome on view here:


Defined as
" attack the arguer personally instead of debating his argument"
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:53 am

KP_fan wrote:And here starts the very English charade........one that creates soft-gelly instead of hard-nuts out of their cricketers

English team will be asked if they are OK to have Trott back.....
Mark my words Swann is eyeing a comeback "on popular demand"  laughing 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10704154/England-players-will-be-asked-if-they-want-Jonathan-Trott-to-return-to-international-set-up.html


the England players will be asked if they are comfortable with Jonathan Trott returning to the side before he is selected for international cricket again.
Trott has indicated that he feels he will be ready to play for England again as soon as May 9 against Scotland in Aberdeen, less than six months after returning from the Ashes tour with a stress-related illness. Trott has since stated that he was suffering from “burnout” and Michael Vaughan, writing for Telegraph Sport on Sunday, questioned whether he should play international cricket again stating that he believed “burnout to be an excuse” for poor cricketing form.
Ultimately the decision on Trott’s England future will be made by the new management team which will be in place by the time of the Scotland match. But it is understood that the senior players remaining from the Ashes tour will also be asked if they have any objections to the return of a player who some within the dressing room could feel left when the heat was on in Australia. So far in public, England’s players have been sympathetic when asked about Trott.

This is just silly, should they also be asked if they want Joe Root back after his injury??

 picard 
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Post by Pal Joey Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:58 am

Olly wrote:
KP_fan wrote:And here starts the very English charade........one that creates soft-gelly instead of hard-nuts out of their cricketers

English team will be asked if they are OK to have Trott back.....
Mark my words Swann is eyeing a comeback "on popular demand"  laughing 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10704154/England-players-will-be-asked-if-they-want-Jonathan-Trott-to-return-to-international-set-up.html


the England players will be asked if they are comfortable with Jonathan Trott returning to the side before he is selected for international cricket again.
Trott has indicated that he feels he will be ready to play for England again as soon as May 9 against Scotland in Aberdeen, less than six months after returning from the Ashes tour with a stress-related illness. Trott has since stated that he was suffering from “burnout” and Michael Vaughan, writing for Telegraph Sport on Sunday, questioned whether he should play international cricket again stating that he believed “burnout to be an excuse” for poor cricketing form.
Ultimately the decision on Trott’s England future will be made by the new management team which will be in place by the time of the Scotland match. But it is understood that the senior players remaining from the Ashes tour will also be asked if they have any objections to the return of a player who some within the dressing room could feel left when the heat was on in Australia. So far in public, England’s players have been sympathetic when asked about Trott.

This is just silly, should they also be asked if they want Joe Root back after his injury??

 picard 

...or Mitch back after they work on his big toe.  Wink 

I just viewed the interview again.
Something just doesn't sit well with me. He still looks and sounds so fragile.
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Post by Stella Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:05 am

The players will be asked if they are ok with it?

 Shocked 
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:09 am

Linebreaker wrote:
Olly wrote:
KP_fan wrote:And here starts the very English charade........one that creates soft-gelly instead of hard-nuts out of their cricketers

English team will be asked if they are OK to have Trott back.....
Mark my words Swann is eyeing a comeback "on popular demand"  laughing 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10704154/England-players-will-be-asked-if-they-want-Jonathan-Trott-to-return-to-international-set-up.html


the England players will be asked if they are comfortable with Jonathan Trott returning to the side before he is selected for international cricket again.
Trott has indicated that he feels he will be ready to play for England again as soon as May 9 against Scotland in Aberdeen, less than six months after returning from the Ashes tour with a stress-related illness. Trott has since stated that he was suffering from “burnout” and Michael Vaughan, writing for Telegraph Sport on Sunday, questioned whether he should play international cricket again stating that he believed “burnout to be an excuse” for poor cricketing form.
Ultimately the decision on Trott’s England future will be made by the new management team which will be in place by the time of the Scotland match. But it is understood that the senior players remaining from the Ashes tour will also be asked if they have any objections to the return of a player who some within the dressing room could feel left when the heat was on in Australia. So far in public, England’s players have been sympathetic when asked about Trott.

This is just silly, should they also be asked if they want Joe Root back after his injury??

 picard 

...or Mitch back after they work on his big toe.  Wink 

I just viewed the interview again.
Something just doesn't sit well with me. He still looks and sounds so fragile.

Tim Bresnan should just decide who plays and who doesn't, sounds a great strategy to me  Laugh 

Yeah he was obviously in a real state, you can still see it. I don't think he was trying to 'con' anyone, but then mental health is always gonna have that stigma attached to it because some people will just see it as taking the easy route out, when for me, it's a serious issue.
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Post by Pal Joey Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:18 am

He'd need to get fit as well.
Did I detect a slight tubbyness in the mid-section?
Looks a lot older than 32 too. More like 52!
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Post by Guest Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:35 pm

Vaughan should be embarassed by his article, and in-fact most of his articles..he clearly has no understanding of the condition, and he dosen't seem to realise, that not everybody suffers with it in the same way!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:34 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2606178/EXCLUSIVE-Jonathan-Trott-puts-cricket-career-hold-anxiety-attacks.html

Poor bloke obviously has problems. I'm sure Vaughan will blame it on something else tho #naughty naughty boy
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Post by Shelsey93 Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:37 pm

See also George Dobell's longer piece on Cricinfo - http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/737793.html. This piece includes some shocking behaviour from photographers. Truly dreadful news for Trott. Dobell is close to Trott so expect the details in there to be true.

Realistically that is it as far as his England career's concerned. Will probably not play again this season and decide whether he wants to carry on in county cricket once things have settled down.

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:12 am

Re-reading this thread I think there are some very wise words earlier on from Hoggy.   clap 

Mental illness when it strikes hard is overwhelming for a period - incredibly difficult imho artificially to create that effect over a prolonged period in order to hoodwink your friends, family and healthcare professionals

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Post by KP_fan Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:42 am

and imagine ......ECB had opened a discussion with senior players on " how to get Trott back"  Shocked 
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Post by Hoggy_Bear Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:28 am

KP_fan wrote:and imagine ......ECB had opened a discussion with senior players on " how to get Trott back"  Shocked 

According to who?
A rather vague article in the Telegraph?

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Post by sirfredperry Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:30 pm

Very sorry news about Trott. But the fact that, clearly, Trott IS suffering from a depression-style condition should NOT detract from Michael Vaughan's article in which he was extremely critical.
Vaughan was basing his comments on those made by Trott which seemed to suggest that he had not been ill at all, just lacking in confidence.
OK, Trott's words were ill-advised and it would have been better if he had not given the interview. Now it transpires that what was said back in the winter was about right - the guy is clearly suffering.
Just from his constant crease marking you can tell Trott is a fairly intense character. Let's hope he can get over this, but it could be that his Test career is over.

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